Yes, it is Luke....and the play was taking place around 15 yards downfield when it happened! However, it's still not considered a clip because it's taking place within the tackles. A cut block is only illegal there if the defensive player is engaged with another offensive player and the Calgary player wasn't!!Does anyone know where the hit took place? Blitz has mentioned that if its along the line then its legal, as long as the defensive player isn't being held by an offensive-lineman, but if the play is happening 25 yards downfield, is the cut block at the original line of scrimmage still legal?
CKNW - Jimenez stayed until off-season
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"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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TheLionKing
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Totally agree with that assessment.Sir Purrcival wrote:I am all for justice happening in this case too but the way the league dilly dallied in coming to some sort of decision really left no time for anything to be resolved before the end of this season. If they had come to decision within a couple of days, there was the possibility that this could have been handled before this game or hopefully the Grey Cup.
CUT BLOCK
The cut block is a variation of the drive block. The offensive lineman cut blocks, or blocks low, at or below the knees.
The beauty of the cut block is that it slows the pursuit of back-side tacklers. It also clears the running back's vision if the front side of the play is congested, and it helps create a running lane. Ir's completely legal although defensive players don't like it and there is a greater potential for injury when this type of block is used.
CHOP BLOCK
There's a gray area between the legal cut block and the illegal chop block. The cut block occurs when a player (usually an offensive lineman) blocks another (usually a defensive lineman) below the knees with his helmet in front of the player.
The chop block is when the same block comes from the side or the back, or when the defensive player is engaged with another offensive player and therefore defenseless. The chop block is illegal!
THE KEY DIFFERENCE
The only difference between the chop block and the cut block is where the offensive player's helmet is. Ahead or on the side can be a matter of inches and it all happens very fast, without being able to predict the exact movement of the defensive player that the offensive player is trying to block.
WHERE IS CUT BLOCKING ALLOWED?
I don't have a CFL rule book in front of me but my understanding is that a cut block is legal when it takes place within 5 yards laterally or 2 yards forward or back of the spot of the ball.
Hope this helps Luke!
The cut block is a variation of the drive block. The offensive lineman cut blocks, or blocks low, at or below the knees.
The beauty of the cut block is that it slows the pursuit of back-side tacklers. It also clears the running back's vision if the front side of the play is congested, and it helps create a running lane. Ir's completely legal although defensive players don't like it and there is a greater potential for injury when this type of block is used.
CHOP BLOCK
There's a gray area between the legal cut block and the illegal chop block. The cut block occurs when a player (usually an offensive lineman) blocks another (usually a defensive lineman) below the knees with his helmet in front of the player.
The chop block is when the same block comes from the side or the back, or when the defensive player is engaged with another offensive player and therefore defenseless. The chop block is illegal!
THE KEY DIFFERENCE
The only difference between the chop block and the cut block is where the offensive player's helmet is. Ahead or on the side can be a matter of inches and it all happens very fast, without being able to predict the exact movement of the defensive player that the offensive player is trying to block.
WHERE IS CUT BLOCKING ALLOWED?
I don't have a CFL rule book in front of me but my understanding is that a cut block is legal when it takes place within 5 yards laterally or 2 yards forward or back of the spot of the ball.
Hope this helps Luke!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Not anymore...if the offensive player's head is behind the defensive player at the time of the contact, and the contact is below the waist, it's considered a chop block and it's illegal!!Blitz - is a cut block legal if it is from behind, or does a player have to be "squared up" so to speak?
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Article 8 – Cut Blocking
It shall be illegal to contact an opponent at or below the knees when that
opponent is:
(a) in a backfield position blocking for the passer or kicker, or,
(b) blocking for the ball carrier on a kick return play or,
(c) a potential pass receiver on the line of scrimmage.
Well, thats what I found in the rule book. Nothing about its occurance relative to the line of scrimmage.
It shall be illegal to contact an opponent at or below the knees when that
opponent is:
(a) in a backfield position blocking for the passer or kicker, or,
(b) blocking for the ball carrier on a kick return play or,
(c) a potential pass receiver on the line of scrimmage.
Well, thats what I found in the rule book. Nothing about its occurance relative to the line of scrimmage.
So doesn't that make Jimenez' hit illegal? He did hit Gargiulo from behind, did he not?Blitz wrote:Not anymore...if the offensive player's head is behind the defensive player at the time of the contact, and the contact is below the waist, it's considered a chop block and it's illegal!!Blitz - is a cut block legal if it is from behind, or does a player have to be "squared up" so to speak?
Then why didn't the official call it an illegal chop block?? He called it rough play!!So doesn't that make Jimenez' hit illegal? He did hit Gargiulo from behind, did he not?
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz:Blitz wrote:Then why didn't the official call it an illegal chop block?? He called it rough play!!So doesn't that make Jimenez' hit illegal? He did hit Gargiulo from behind, did he not?
Thank you for your insight. I've been a Lions fan, and football fan in general since the mid 70s. I think I know quite a bit about football, but I've learned tons from reading your posts.
I do have one question:
I was at the game, and I heard the ref say that the Rough Play was a dead-ball foul. Does that not imply that it was after the whistle?
Don't get me wrong, with every account I've read, I don't think the league has a legitimate case against Jason, I'm just asking about the referee's reference to "dead-ball foul".
Thanks,
D
Go Lions!
First of all....thanks for your kind words Disturber!!Blitz:
Thank you for your insight. I've been a Lions fan, and football fan in general since the mid 70s. I think I know quite a bit about football, but I've learned tons from reading your posts.
I do have one question:
I was at the game, and I heard the ref say that the Rough Play was a dead-ball foul. Does that not imply that it was after the whistle?
Don't get me wrong, with every account I've read, I don't think the league has a legitimate case against Jason, I'm just asking about the referee's reference to "dead-ball foul".
Thanks,
D
You're correct in that, if they called the play a dead ball foul for roughing.... then the hit occured after the whistle, at least according to the official. Therefore they are calling it a rough play, dead ball foul.
If the play occured before the whistle then it's a legal play. So the official is ruling the block took place after the whistle. You've brought forward a very important point. I guess it will be up to the league to prove that it took place after the whistle. If not it's a legal play.
I don't condone hits after the whistle but most of the evidence does not confirm that it took place after the whistle. It will be interesting to see how this turns out, when the arbitration case is over.
What I can't believe is how many Leo fans are believing the official got it right...especially after all the missed calls by officials this year and all the moaning about the officials this season.
Not looking at this specific incident but the number of times I've heard players and coaches and general managers whining this year and I'm fed up with it. I give Dickenson credit for not whining about the hit from Perry but instead said it was a legal hit and he didn't want quarterbacks babied. He's old school that way and I admire him for it.
When I played football and when most played football (except for recent years) almost everything was legal out there. Cut blocks could take place anywhere on the football field. A quarterback could be hit anywhere and in fact a defensive player could take two steps and hit the quarterback after he threw the football. Head slaps were legal, clotheslines were legal, defensive backs could hit receivers until the football was thrown, horse colar tackles were legal, crackback blocks happened all the time!
The game was a hell of a lot tougher and more dangerous and you never heard the whining that you hear now... and the players are so much better protected with both the rules and the equipment. They may be better athletes but there are more whiners playing pro football these days. Fans also whine more now too about borderline hits that were more than legal only a few years ago. In fact whining is a national pastime sometimes!!
Football is a violent, tough contact sport. You accept that when you play the game. Wally has said the same, It's also played at great speed and there is a very fine line between a hit out of bounds or a hit after a whistle that instant replay can slow down but at the speed and emotion the game is played it can only be a split second for a play to be legal or illegal.
That's what I love about our offensive line. They're old school. They believe that having their quarterback get hit or sacked as a sin. They protect our quarterback. I've seen offensive lineman see their quarterback writhing on the ground getting medical attention following a second down sack and they're on the sidelines already cracking jokes or smiling about something.
Not our offensive line!! They play offensive line the way offensive lineman should play the game. They play it hard and tough and usually very legal. All offensive lineman try to get away with what they can in a football game. Our offensive line has been under a microscope all season and they've not been very penalized at all, considering anything borderline would be called against them by the officials.
Quite frankly I'm proud of them!!!!
Last edited by Blitz on Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
I'm a jerk because I want a cheap player who's getting off pretty much scott-free after ending another players career to get what he deserves? Give your head a shake.bbking wrote:Jer Bear wrote:I really hope someone ends Jimenez's career with a after-the-whistle cheap shot on Sunday.
Wow. :no: Did your name lose a k Jer_ Bear.
How do you know he is getting off scott free? Isn't his discipline pending?Jer Bear wrote:I'm a jerk because I want a cheap player who's getting off pretty much scott-free after ending another players career to get what he deserves? Give your head a shake.bbking wrote:Jer Bear wrote:I really hope someone ends Jimenez's career with a after-the-whistle cheap shot on Sunday.
Wow. :no: Did your name lose a k Jer_ Bear.
Whaaaaaa! Whaaaaaaa! Whaaaaaaa!I'm a jerk because I want a cheap player who's getting off pretty much scott-free after ending another players career to get what he deserves? Give your head a shake
Perhaps you should watch table tennis instead of football!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)