Jimenez suspended

[hwgill]

No, I have not seen the video. I was not watching until just before game time.

[#1 Lions Fan in SK]

Well, I just got banned over at RF for saying basically the same thing I said in my last post.

All I can say is that there's obviously a lot more democracy here than there is in Saskatchewan.

Give us some time on the democracy over here on the prairies. Maybe we can improve with our new government! :lol:

[sj-roc]

Well, I just got banned over at RF for saying basically the same thing I said in my last post.

All I can say is that there's obviously a lot more democracy here than there is in Saskatchewan.

Give us some time on the democracy over here on the prairies. Maybe we can improve with our new government! :lol:

Speaking of which, Rider fans can't blame the NDP regime, under which Sask has never won the Grey Cup, for any postseason failures this year.

Or maybe they can — will the Brad Wall government be sworn in before or after Nov 25?

[Rammer]

Well, I just got banned over at RF for saying basically the same thing I said in my last post.

All I can say is that there's obviously a lot more democracy here than there is in Saskatchewan.

Give us some time on the democracy over here on the prairies. Maybe we can improve with our new government! :lol:

Speaking of which, Rider fans can't blame the NDP regime, under which Sask has never won the Grey Cup, for any postseason failures this year.

Or maybe they can — will the Brad Wall government be sworn in before or after Nov 25?

I think that they have to worry about the 18th first. 8)

[K-Dogg]

Until such time as you can prove guilt, innocence must be assumed.

I operate under the concept of rationality, prove something, I will believe it. Make blatant assumptions until the cows come home, and nothing else that you say will hold water.

Unless video evidence is presented, or Jimenez comes on here himself and says, "Yes, I did it", he is innocent.

Wow. I've read some interesting things on this thread, but this mentality of this incident is absurd. Do you need a camera around to prove your guilty of a crime or can a cop judge that for themselves. There are a lot of strong and unbiased opinions coming from ex-players and reporters on this incident. That alone should tell you that this is a serious incident. The "booboo" comment earlier was also pretty disrespectful. Having said that, I don't blame Jimenez for appealing the suspension as the CFL screwed up by agreeing to the current CBA with CFLPA. Morally, I think it's wrong to appeal any suspension, but legally and for Jimenez's benefit...why wouldn't you, it's an important game. This is a low point for the CFL. Every suspension can now turn into an appeal and that does not bode well for the League.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/sportsblog/200 ... low_p.html

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/20 ... ko_column/

[Lion Guy]

Until such time as you can prove guilt, innocence must be assumed.

I operate under the concept of rationality, prove something, I will believe it. Make blatant assumptions until the cows come home, and nothing else that you say will hold water.

Unless video evidence is presented, or Jimenez comes on here himself and says, "Yes, I did it", he is innocent.

Wow. I've read some interesting things on this thread, but this mentality of this incident is absurd. Do you need a camera around to prove your guilty of a crime or can a cop judge that for themselves. There are a lot of strong and unbiased opinions coming from ex-players and reporters on this incident. That alone should tell you that this is a serious incident. The "booboo" comment earlier was also pretty disrespectful. Having said that, I don't blame Jimenez for appealing the suspension as the CFL screwed up by agreeing to the current CBA with CFLPA. Morally, I think it's wrong to appeal any suspension, but legally and for Jimenez's benefit...why wouldn't you, it's an important game. This is a low point for the CFL. Every suspension can now turn into an appeal and that does not bode well for the League.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/sportsblog/200 ... low_p.html

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/20 ... ko_column/

And current players, like AJ Gass.....................uh, yeeeeeeeah, THAT'S credible.

[hwgill]

I posted the following at Friedman's blog yesterday...I have still to see it appear on the site.

First: Until the video is made clear to everyone, not just a select few at CFL headquarters, no one can say for sure what happened.

Second: regardless of the injury, the type of hit is legal, and is something that Buono has been trying to make illegal for two years now. However, while the rest of the league says no to Buono, there is no reason his guys shouldn't use something that the league considers legal.

Third: What makes this particular hit legal or illegal is the timing of the whistle and I have still not heard anything definite on that.

Fourth: A ref pulls a flag and ejects Jimenez...these are the same refs that fans across the country have been complaining about all year in regards to bad calls...now suddenly every one believes them? What absolute hypocrisy.

Fifth: Gass talking about dirty hits? The master of dirty hits? (well, maybe that does give him a better read...)

Sixth: Only those capable of mind-reading can know the intent of Jimenez when he made the hit...last time I checked, no one is capable of such a feat.

Seventh: Jimenez has the RIGHT to appeal his suspension, and no one can take that away from him.

Eight: If the hit was legal (ie. between the whistles), then why is he being punished at all? Simply because Garguilio was hurt? It's a damn football game, guys get hurt, it happens, deal with it.

[Soundy]

^All very well said.

[K-Dogg]

And current players, like AJ Gass.....................uh, yeeeeeeeah, THAT'S credible.

What about Chris Walby, Khari Jones, Greg Frers, and David Benefield? Not to mention numerous reporters. Spin in how you will, what happened to Gargiulo was not necessary and potentially career ending. As for Gass, you're right he isn't an angel...but you don't have to be to see that what happened to Gargiulo was unnecessary.

[K-Dogg]

I posted the following at Friedman's blog yesterday...I have still to see it appear on the site.

First: Until the video is made clear to everyone, not just a select few at CFL headquarters, no one can say for sure what happened.

Second: regardless of the injury, the type of hit is legal, and is something that Buono has been trying to make illegal for two years now. However, while the rest of the league says no to Buono, there is no reason his guys shouldn't use something that the league considers legal.

Third: What makes this particular hit legal or illegal is the timing of the whistle and I have still not heard anything definite on that.

Fourth: A ref pulls a flag and ejects Jimenez...these are the same refs that fans across the country have been complaining about all year in regards to bad calls...now suddenly every one believes them? What absolute hypocrisy.

Fifth: Gass talking about dirty hits? The master of dirty hits? (well, maybe that does give him a better read...)

Sixth: Only those capable of mind-reading can know the intent of Jimenez when he made the hit...last time I checked, no one is capable of such a feat.

Seventh: Jimenez has the RIGHT to appeal his suspension, and no one can take that away from him.

Eight: If the hit was legal (ie. between the whistles), then why is he being punished at all? Simply because Garguilio was hurt? It's a damn football game, guys get hurt, it happens, deal with it.

You make some very good points, but what it comes down to is this. Has any other incident in the CFL triggered so much backlash from reporters? Yes, the officiating this season has been very suspect, but when people who have no ties (completely unbiased) to any team say that the hit was among the worst things they've ever seen...it makes you wonder. Here's my point-for-point response.

1) You're right, no one can say for sure what happened aside from Jimenez, the official and whoever else whitnessed the incident.

2) That type of hit is illegal after a whistle (determined in this case) but not during regular play.

3) You're right, but it has been determined that it was rough play after the whistle.

4) I agree, the officiating has been terrible this year and the official could've made a mistake. However, I trust that with the backlash and the decision from the Office of the Commissioner that the correct call was made. There not always right, but when the media (unbiased) has some harsh comments about the incident...I'm thinking the play was illegal.

5) I agree, Gass isn't the exactly an angel, but more people have commented on this incident other than Gass who are lot more credible.

6) I agree, Jimenez is the only one who knew what his intention was.

7) I agree, he has that right and I wasn't surprised that he used that right to appeal his suspension.

8 ) It was determined that it was after the whistle.

[Rammer]

2) I don't think that the hit being outside the whistle has been established by anyone as of yet.

7) No surprise, as not playing would hit his bank account pretty heavily.

8) That hasn't been put forth anywhere that I have read, just speculation.

[Lion Guy]

And current players, like AJ Gass.....................uh, yeeeeeeeah, THAT'S credible.

What about Chris Walby, Khari Jones, Greg Frers, and David Benefield? Not to mention numerous reporters. Spin in how you will, what happened to Gargiulo was not necessary and potentially career ending. As for Gass, you're right he isn't an angel...but you don't have to be to see that what happened to Gargiulo was unnecessary.

Ooops. I'll let that one go for ya.

There is a world of difference between necessary and legal.

No, it wasn't necessary and he probably should not have done it. But if it was legal then why is he punished? Because someone got hurt? No-one wants anybody to get injured, at least not me anyway; but when it happens you do not try people in the court of public opinion. You proceed according to black and white rules in place that everyone in this case agreed to (CBA) including the injured party. This is a League/Union issue which is why Buono doesn't come into the mix, unless people want to express their opinions again.

What I find extremely interesting in this case, and with Rissouli and Murphy previously, is that with the actions of a couple of players public opinion goes as far as labelling the entire organization, Lions and especially Buono. When in fact they probably had very little to do with it. The Canucks on the other hand probably had a much larger part in what Bertuzzi did to Moore, and yet no-one called the Canucks and Crawford dirty.

Interesting.

[Rammer]

Until such time as you can prove guilt, innocence must be assumed.

I operate under the concept of rationality, prove something, I will believe it. Make blatant assumptions until the cows come home, and nothing else that you say will hold water.

Unless video evidence is presented, or Jimenez comes on here himself and says, "Yes, I did it", he is innocent.

Wow. I've read some interesting things on this thread, but this mentality of this incident is absurd. Do you need a camera around to prove your guilty of a crime or can a cop judge that for themselves. There are a lot of strong and unbiased opinions coming from ex-players and reporters on this incident. That alone should tell you that this is a serious incident. The "booboo" comment earlier was also pretty disrespectful. Having said that, I don't blame Jimenez for appealing the suspension as the CFL screwed up by agreeing to the current CBA with CFLPA. Morally, I think it's wrong to appeal any suspension, but legally and for Jimenez's benefit...why wouldn't you, it's an important game. This is a low point for the CFL. Every suspension can now turn into an appeal and that does not bode well for the League.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/sportsblog/200 ... low_p.html

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/20 ... ko_column/

Just to add another media observation on the whole matter....

4 Let's see if we've got this straight: the CFL has suspended B.C. Lions offensive tackle Jason Jimenez for one game for his hit on a Stampeder player even though there is apparently no conclusive video evidence of the play. Not only that, it took them eight days to render this decision. Hmmmm....

Now, we bet Jimenez wins an appeal especially if the man hearing the case is a Lions' fan. Remember, this is the same outfit that suspended Eskimos linebacker A.J. Gass earlier this year for throwing an opponent's helmet, but then had it overturned by an arbitrator who was an admitted supporter of the Green and Gold.

[K-Dogg]

2) I don't think that the hit being outside the whistle has been established by anyone as of yet.

7) No surprise, as not playing would hit his bank account pretty heavily.

8) That hasn't been put forth anywhere that I have read, just speculation.

Rammer, hasn't it been put forth by the official and further, by suspending him, put forth by the League that the hit was after the whistle? Thanks for Tait's comment, never read that one.

[CatsEyes]

I think what it comes down to is his RIGHT to appeal. Whether he's guilty or innocent he has a right to appeal. Example (not in the same ballpark, but it works for me): I got a speeding ticket yesterday. I was probably speeding, but I have no proof other than what the officer says his radar told him. Bottom line is I have the RIGHT and the CHOICE to appeal that ticket. I likely won't because he was at the bottom of a hill and the chances are pretty good that I WAS speeding, as I have sped there before. But I have the RIGHT to appeal it if I want to. Ya never know-I just might!