BC Lions Coaching Changes

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BC Lions Future Coaching Changes

1 ) Status Quo - No Coaching Changes Made
0
No votes
2) Campbell and Most Coaching Staff are Fired
6
24%
3) Campbell is Retained, but 3 or more coaches let go, including both OC and DC
1
4%
4) Campbell is Retained, but 3 or more coaches let go, including either OC or DC
3
12%
5) Some Coaching Staff Changes, but Campbell and OC and DC retained
3
12%
6) Clean Sweep - Everyone is fired.
5
20%
7) Clean Sweep - Everyone is fired included Campbell and Neil McEvoy.
7
28%
 
Total votes: 25
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Hambone
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

don corleone wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 5:58 am
Hambone wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:43 pm Things in those suggestions don't quite add up.

In Hervey and Steinauer you have two guys who likely would both only consider coming over for the GM job. For Hervey that would be a parallel move but he might be OK with familiar turf. For Steinauer even the GM job would be a demotion given he's currently the President of Football Ops with Hamilton and Hervey's boss. Would he really give all that up to go back to being just a HC, UNDER Hervey? Also it would be a major life change. He came to the CFL with Ottawa back in 1996 before joining the Ticats in 1997. He's been in the Golden Horseshoe for the past 28 years save for his one year at Fresno State in 2017. Is he going to pull up stakes for EE voluntarily? Maybe if the Caretaker and Scott Mitchell fire him he will have to consider options.

Similarly Jones and Milanovich would come across as being unlikely to co-exist in a new structure unless one surrenders power. What they have now works because Milanovich ias already the HC with Jones as DC. That's not the first time for that structure as they worked together in the same capacity in Toronto 2012-13. They also worked together in 2007 when Jones was DC and Milanovich QBC in Montreal. Jones comes across as a guy who wants control as in he would want to have both the GM and HC job which happens to be Milanovich's. I don't see Milanovich settling for anything less than continuing as HC and I don't see Jones taking the GM job without being HC. No idea if Milanovich has any front office aspirations.
I was surprised to hear Steinhauers name come up. Now it has come up twice. Could be coaching is what he wants to do. He wouldn't be a bad choice.

As for Hamilton I don't think titles are as important as the opportunity to avoid micro management from above. If Hervey leaves they probably elevate Milanovich but I think Chris Jones will be well paid and have plenty of say regarding his area of concern. Recruitment is one of his strengths imo.
Your post was the first time I saw Steinauer's name mentioned but I don't know your rumour source. I refuse to let my life be consumed with following people on social media so at times am not up to speed. Even when I do see rumours from supposed insiders I take them with a salt lick sized grain of salt because for every one that does come true another 10 don't. I developed a thick skin about that from years of reading NHL trade rumours that seemed to have little more basis than an NHL GM happening to be seen at a game his team isn't playing in. Next thing I read is a rumour that said GM is about to pull the trigger on a deal with the home team with the primary players being exchanged being included in the trade rumour that never turns into a trade.

It's entirely possible Steinauer would like to get out of the front office and return to the sidelines now that he's had a taste of both. After 11 of the last 12 years spent in the TiCat organization I think there is a ton of mutual loyalty built up between him and the Caretaker. Until Bob Young doesn't want him then I think he stays in Hamilton. Of course with Chris Jones who knows how long he plans on sticking around no matter what position he holds. Don Matthews brought him in to join Montreal back in 2002. His 6 years with the Larks is his longest stay since he got into coaching at North Jackson High School 30 years ago. He followed that with 4 years in Calgary. Since leaving the Stamps after 2011 his 3 years in Saskatchewan, before fleeing to Cleveland a few days after signing an extension with the Riders, is his longest tenure. If micro-managing is a concern then IMO stay away from Jones. IMO nothing says micro-manager like a guy than a guy who insists on wearing multiple hats once he gets into a position of power like GM.

Jones does like to wield his power amongst his players. He's one of those guys who has his loyal followers but at the same time will severe that loyalty mercilessly. When Farhan was running thru the announcements of the CFLPA all-stars in the Lions Den I was sitting with a buddy who is an Elks fan who also is quite well connected with the Elks and many CFL players from all teams due to business dealings. After they announced former Elks David Beard and Jake Ceresna as CFLPA all-stars I commented that it must hurt a bit to hear names of guys Jones dealt away being selected. Ceresna for Gittens was a football trade. Beard though he opined was dealt mid-season because he was one of the Elks CFLPA reps and Jones wasn't fond of "bunkhouse lawyers". Unfortunate given Beard was born and raised in Sherwood Park before going on to play for U of Alberta and be drafted by his hometown then-Eskimos. EE did get Jesse Gibbon in return. He in turn was shipped off to Montreal after playing only 7 games with EE, starting 1. Now Edmonton's OL relies heavily on Lions castoffs David Foucault, Brett Boyko and Hunter Steward.
Last edited by Hambone on Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Toppy Vann
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

Hambone wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:17 pm
Toppy Vann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:44 pm
maxlion wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:25 pm

It depends. Removing his co-gm responsibilities would essentially be a constructive dismissal. Presumably they would want to pay him less too. But maybe Rigmaiden just slides into McEvoy’s spot and Campbell stays as co-gm. Or maybe Campbell is fine with just coaching.

I agree though that he seems to be on thin ice at the moment.
You raise a good point about that as to whether it in law would be a successful court action if such as change were forced onto a GM/HC like this guy where he's told to take HC or take GM (one or the other) or get fired.

BUT forgetting that for a moment, you're really raising a very important point I neglected IF the owner said be GM or HC but not both.


The reality of those situations MOST OFTEN is that if the guy takes it, his heart is not fully in it AND has an eye out for their next role.

Bottom line (in my belief system) it's better if you're doing that to just fire the guy and pay out that year.
Never been a labour expert but seems to me that removal of the AGM part of Campbell's portfolio can be taken by Rick to be a demotion and that he'd have every right to claim it as effectively a dismissal with the expectation he be paid out as though it was. With that BC's options might be to either fire him with compensation as per whatever his contract might call for or try to "red circle" his salary and pay him fully as though his os still AGM-HC even if holding a lesser role. Or they could sumply mutually agree to part ways and negotiate a settlement.
I'm no lawyer but did some lawyer direction when court cases were blowing up in our face and the Board and CEO had me to step in to work with the external lawers, corporate counsel and management to end these things.

Also had a potential constructive dismissal situation where I countered that with a threat of repudiation of contract - successfully as the change in my manager's role was forced on me. When that section moved to a person who the VP wanted promoted two years moved to him, I was offered a great job as I protested that. Before I switched jobs the CEO promoted me to the Executive where I was a colleague of my former VP who when he got let go, the board directed me to negotiate the terms for settlement, I protested as the last settlement by the HR VP got that person in the board's bad books but the CEO said, I have carte blanche to settle with no second guessing. I did it with outside counsel and the same fax machine when I got a demand to settle by 6 pm or goes to court. I didn't want others to know what was going on. as my colleagues would hate me.

It's almost a moot point as I doubt it would be done in this case, but it is not impossible if the person goes along with it and realizes they want to be HC more than GM which some might want. Hiring the GM/HC combos is one of the dumbest moves made inthe CFL.

If a GM/HC is forced to choose one or the other (especially if reduced to HC alone) that meets the most signficant major test and and the second test for constructive dismissal as it was duties changed intentionally by the organization.

If such a change like this was part of major re-org which it would, your case for constructive dismissal is likely a winner if the other tests are met.

If you speak up and protest and document conversations, it meets another test.

However, if the contract in this case allows for the employer to make any changes, it likely fail sin court.

The other test is how a reasonable person would react to this change and clearly this would meet that test.


The caveats:

1. The person has to resign.
2. If they didn't reduce the compensation paid or how any bonuses would be calculated if any, it hurts the cause of action.
2. No one with one year guaranteed money on a contract would initiate a cause of action like this given there is no upside.

The person has to resign first and that is more likely in organizations without fixed term contracts ending in 1 year.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

don corleone wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 5:47 am
maxlion wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:18 pm Purifoy was signed for his second go round with the Lions while Campbell was coach and co-gm. He played all 18 games and was an all star. He was released in the off season before a bonus was due. The reason the Lions struggled at the position this year was that his replacement had a season ending injury at the start of the year.
Appreciate the time line. I was looking at that one from more of a Chris jones recognizing talent perspective. I'll put that to rest for now.

I believe Purifoy and Campbell had history going back to Ottawa. It did not surprise me he was released despite being an all star and still don't think he is a highly paid player.

Could be the Co - Gm arrangement was not an ideal match. Looking back I can see where a guy like Lucky was likely recruited / signed by Rigmaiden as he was in Winnipeg and then sabotaged by Campbell when he played Terry Williams. Shawn Lemon?

It's all going to be straightened out soon. Apparently Moj is saying Buck, Lapo, and Orlando are the top candidates. All good guys.
The gist I got from re: Purifoy and Campbell in Ottawa was that something happened that forced Campbell to dump him. I think somebody else was let go too. I don't think it had anything to do with his play but something off the field, possibly inside the locker room. I recall having concerns about him in his first stint in BC. Again it was nothing to do with his play itself but a couple of times I saw him demonstrably chewing out or pointing his finger at a team mate immediately after a play as if to say "that was your fault man". I liked his play but wondered how he was perceived in the locker room. Regardless whatever happened back in 2018 Campbell was still willing to scoop him up again first day of free agency in 2022. Purifoy was EE's highest paid and the CFL's 12th highest paid DB in 2024 at $125K hard money, just behind what Marcus Sayles was scheduled to make before being cut by BC.

Lucky Whitehead being not re-signed was simply a case of no longer being the dynamic player he was in his first year with BC. Ankle injuries (chronic maybe?) have taken away the game-breaking speed that made him electric both as a receiver and returner. He's closing in on JAG (Just Another Guy) calibre now albeit with long purple dreadlocks and still tons of personality. With Hatcher, Cottoy, McInnis and emerging other talent like Hollins and Eberhardt.

As maligned as Terry Williams is I do like his running back mentality as a returner. Reminds me of Tim Brown and Rod Smart. No dancing around waiting for holes than might not open up. Head down and straight forward getting positive yards every return. Williams has also proved sure handed with the ball rarely fumbling while often taking helacious hits. Lucky has not been so lucky in that regard. A propensity for turning the ball over has been a criticism over the years as witnessed by fumbles in both the WDF and Grey Cup.
Last edited by Hambone on Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

If Purifoy’s recent comments in the media about being left off the all star team are indicative of what kind of person he is, it is easy to see how he would soon wear out his welcome.

I was surprised to see Steinauer’s name mentioned as a coaching candidate. He is an intriguing possibility, certainly more so than Lapo. I’m unsure about Buck. He’s been very good as an OC. Is he head coaching material? I have no idea.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

I think that sure handed Terry Williams is maligned at times unfairly as he does EXACTLY what they tell him to do in practice.
It's a risk averse up the middle of the blocking to get yards but prevent the holding and illegal blocks that happen when a returner cuts for open space.
I disagree with that philosophy but this guy is hard worker, decent returner and IIRC hasn't the mental lapses like Lucky ran into on that punt fumble.

If there is a guy who possesses the kind of work ethic you want and who's a team player, it's this guy.

As to both Purifoy and Whitehead my view is this:
Anytime someone is a bit over the top (clown faces or dogs coming to the games to put on a show) my view is that they're one scre- up closer to the door.

My view is that it's a distraction that shows lack of focus and a look at me attitude that might play well with fans but shows a lack of focus, pre-game.

Lucky has done some good things for the Bombers and his sideline demeanour has looked a lot more mature with the Bombers but his fumble was needless and he looked unfocused when i saw the tape of it. His game is likely for a younger guy and I wish the guy well. However, his fumble is nothing compared to the INTs that Collaros tossed with the numb finger. I see our friend Buck is getting slagged for calling plays that the numb finger couldn't make. I get that Zach was given the reigns by the HC as he deserved to be able to play. BUT maybe he should have took himself out.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

maxlion wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:09 pm If Purifoy’s recent comments in the media about being left off the all star team are indicative of what kind of person he is, it is easy to see how he would soon wear out his welcome.

I was surprised to see Steinauer’s name mentioned as a coaching candidate. He is an intriguing possibility, certainly more so than Lapo. I’m unsure about Buck. He’s been very good as an OC. Is he head coaching material? I have no idea.
I'd be willing to roll the dice on Pierce. Steinauer would also be intriguing. Lapo? No way. I've made my opinion know about Chris Jones. Despite that and Lapo being a genuinely likeable person if I had only 2 choices put forth for HC, Jones or Lapo I'd take Jones. Lapo's record as a HC is poor to put it bluntly going 22-50-0 for a 0.306 winning percentage and that's including going 10-8-0 when Winnipeg advanced to the Grey Cup in 2011. He was 12-42-0 for 0.222 in his other 3-1/2 season in Winnipeg and Ottawa. Anything above OC or playing a coach on TSN and the Peter Principle kicks in for Lapo.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

Hambone wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:30 pm
maxlion wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 12:09 pm I was surprised to see Steinauer’s name mentioned as a coaching candidate. He is an intriguing possibility, certainly more so than Lapo. I’m unsure about Buck. He’s been very good as an OC. Is he head coaching material? I have no idea.
I'd be willing to roll the dice on Pierce. Steinauer would also be intriguing. Lapo? No way. I've made my opinion know about Chris Jones. Despite that and Lapo being a genuinely likeable person if I had only 2 choices put forth for HC, Jones or Lapo I'd take Jones. Lapo's record as a HC is poor to put it bluntly going 22-50-0 for a 0.306 winning percentage and that's including going 10-8-0 when Winnipeg advanced to the Grey Cup in 2011. He was 12-42-0 for 0.222 in his other 3-1/2 season in Winnipeg and Ottawa. Anything above OC or playing a coach on TSN and the Peter Principle kicks in for Lapo.
I’m surprised that Mike Benevides hasn’t been listed among the front-runners in B.C. His head coaching record of 33-21 is comparable to Steinauer’s (39-29) but I believe Benevides can be a more inspirational leader. I always thought Steinauer lacked control over his players, especially when they repeatedly took undisciplined penalties.

LaPo’s 22-50 coaching record is terrible but he was the CFL’s most creative offensive coordinator with the Bombers. There seems to be a strong belief in Winnipeg that the offence has regressed under Pierce, and fans are ready to move on. I don’t know if he’s ready to be a head coach. Of the two coaches, I’d still prefer to have LaPo involved in the Lions’ coaching staff somehow.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

Re: Bene when I talked to my connected source he had been talking to a BC veteran client about the various rumours. When he bounced a couple names around he said the player's eyes lit up when he mentioned Bene. Seems he is popular with the players.
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don corleone
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

Sounds like a parting of the ways is in the near future for John Murphy and the Argos. Hearing Calgary but my guess is Hamilton.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

Regarding names mentioned for HC I like Buck as HC but with Lapo as OC. Mike Benevides would be a good DC.

With Orlando, Mark Washington might be a candidate for DC.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

Farhan Lalji reports the Lions have fired Rick Campbell and promoted Ryan Rigmaiden to GM as expected and Neil McEvoy to VP of football operations.

Lions fire head coach Campbell after early playoff exit
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

I think Campbell got a raw deal and we lost a good coach. But there are other good coaches out there. If Steinauer is available as rumoured, he’s got to be at or near the top of the list.
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

It would be ironic if we hire Buck and Bombers fans get their wish of LaPolice returning as OC — the position he held when they won Grey Cups in 2018 & 2019.

How highly coveted is the BC job? We are about to find out. And will Campbell recruit from the current BC staff if he is soon hired by the Elks?

And what is Rigmaiden going to do differently than Campbell/McElvoy given he was already serving as an assistant GM, along with his director of scouting title?
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

The new coach will probably have full control over the hiring of assistants. Here's my very early wish list for the key positions:

HC: Mike Benevides
OC: Jordan Maksymic or Paul LaPolice (LaPo is more likely to replace Buck Pierce in Winnipeg)
DC: Ryan Phillips (with heavy input from Benevides, who had the top defence in the league for the final 12 games of the 2011 Grey Cup run)
STC: Barron Miles (if family health situations allow him to move back to the West Coast)
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Re: BC Lions Coaching Changes

B.C.FAN wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 9:20 am The new coach will probably have full control over the hiring of assistants. Here's my very early wish list for the key positions:

HC: Mike Benevides
OC: Jordan Maksymic or Paul LaPolice (LaPo is more likely to replace Buck Pierce in Winnipeg)
DC: Ryan Phillips (with heavy input from Benevides, who had the top defence in the league for the final 12 games of the 2011 Grey Cup run)
STC: Barron Miles (if family health situations allow him to move back to the West Coast)
I could live with B.C. Fan's wish list. I was not a fan of Benevides in his first go round as a HC but I think (hope) he has learned from that experience and will be more disciplined on the sidelines and a better leader overall.
OTOH, I prefer a HC with an O background that can have a greater influence on his OC.
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