Lions vs. Alouettes Oct. 19, 2024

[DanoT]

"Its not over til its over" might be true but I think it gets trumped by my own saying: "With football you can't just flick a switch and get different results". There needs to be some major changes especially with coaching and that won't happen this season and maybe not next season either.

[tedbear]

It should have been stated that both Rourke and Adams would get a half each. Let the offence sort itself out that way. Lions biggest problem is on a D that can’t pressure the QB and doesn’t cover within 5 yards of receivers. Mix in the lack of second and long opportunities and they are lucky to be in the playoff mix, where anything can happen.

You hit the nail on the head when you said the problem is a "D THAT CAN'T PRESSURE THE QB AND DOESN'T COVER WITHIN 5 YARDS OF RECEIVERS"

That is our biggest problem and unfortunately I do not see that changing due to coaching. When we have been able to pressure the quarterback we are tough it seems everytime we have some success with a pressure defence we end up going back to the same old non pressure defence at the end of the game dying by a thousand cuts every play.

[David]

I'm wondering what Doman is thinking right now.

You have to believe that Doman was sitting at home watching on his TV (home theater system?) thinking the same thing we were when they handed off deep to David Mackie on 3rd and 2, and executed an absurdly botched onside kick to start the 2nd half only down by 18 in a CFL game, "WHAT THE FIRETRUCK (minus some letters in the middle) ARE THEY DOING?!?!"

The guy, through good intentions, has earnestly put the football club in salary cap hell trying to make the team stronger. He gets thanked by missing out on playoff revenue (other than his Grey Cup hosting) and likely a loss of a draft pick as well as a fine from the league. We will end up with the 4th worst record in the league only thanks, in large measure, to a 5-1 start to the season.


DH

[don corleone]

Might as well trot out the lucky uniforms if there happens to be one. I'd like to see them go as old school as possible and follow it up with some smash mouth football.

As for the D, they were down 7 before they even got on the field last game and fought crappy field position all day. They gave up too many completions but also made them take field goals. D will know they need their best game yet. It's late in the year but wouldn't mind seeing Lokombo at safety or Purifoy for that matter but that's another story.

[Blitz]

As we get set to play our last regular season game against Montreal its interesting to look at a big picture view of this season so far.

OFFENCE

Offensively, we have scored 421 points, which is two points more than the first place Bombers. In fact we rank 3rd in the West in points scored, after Edmonton and Saskatchewan. Yes, some of those points came off early season success but overall, we have not been as horrible, as it has often seemed, although it has not been good.

Overall, our offence ranks 6th in the CFL, averaging 24.8 points per game. With two of the highest respected quarterbacks in the CFL, with William Stanback having an excellent season at tailback behind a mediocre offensive line, and with a receiving corps that was considered one of the CFL’s best, in terms of talent, going into this season, that 6th place ranking certainly rates as a massive underperformance.

A closer look at our run game shows us fifth in CFL rushing but surprisingly 6th in the CFL in average yards per rush. In terms of passing, our Leos rank 4th in the CFL in passing yards but here is a revealing stat. Our Leos have the worst passing percentage completion rate in the entire CFL, with only a 64.8% completion rate. Even Ottawa, the eighth ranked passing team in the CFL has a 67.4% completion rate. That statistic says a lot about our offence and its deficiencies.

Another telling statistic is that our offence is tied for 1st in red zone opportunities (54) and 1st in the CFL in our number of offensive red zone plays and yet we rank 7th in red zone scoring touchdowns (26). We settle for a field goal more often that we score a touchdown when we get into the red zone. Our offence plays worst in the red zone than in any other area of the field and our success in the red zone is terrible.

The Calgary Stampeders, the worst team in the CFL this season and the worst offence in the league too, have been much better in the red zone this season than our B.C Lions

We’ve also given up the most sacks in the CFL. (42)

DEFENSE

On defense, we have given up 436 points, which also ranks us third in defense in the West, behind Winnipeg and Saskatchewan. But surprisingly our defense ranks 4th in the CFL, in terms of points against. We average 25.6 points against. However, our defense does allow the opposition to march up and down the field more than most other defenses, as we rank 6th in total offensive yards and 7th in offensive plays against.

We’re fifth against the rush and 6th against the pass, in terms of yardage. However, we rank last in terms of passing percentage against (73.9% completion rate) and dead last in terms of defensive efficiency (108.2) Not surprisingly we rank dead last in interceptions in the CFL. A lot of our defensive woes have been blamed on our pass rush and yet we rank 2nd in the CFL in quarterback sacks and 3rd in forced fumbles. Nor can our struggles be pinned on penalties as we are the 2nd least penalized team in the CFL.

We have the lowest time of possession in the CFL.

Overall, the stats, in terms of points scored and points against, reflect that we should be a third place team in the West. The fact we have scored less points than we’re scored points (a difference of 15 points also makes our 8-9 record a solid reflection of our play this season.

But if we were self-scouting, there are some facts from these stats that really stand out and important conclusions drawn and adjustments made. Of course, Rick Campbell would likely summarize all this information as "We didn't make enough plays".

OFFENSIVE CHANGES

1) Red Zone Lack of Success.

With better play calling and execution in the red zone, our Leos team could have been challenging for 1st place on Saturday night or even been in first place. All we needed was an average rate of red zone success, in comparison to other CFL teams and we would have 2-3 more wins this season.

2) Passing Game.

Our passing game stats tell an important story. We have the lowest completion rate in the CFL. We have given up the most sacks. Those stats speak to pass play design and emphasis and offensive line play. A quicker, higher percentage passing attack would reduce sacks (which are drive killers) and increase time of possession.

Moving the pocket with misdirection play action and semi-bootlegs (we have two mobile quarterbacks would also help. A screen game could also make a difference, if we had an offensive coordinator with some balls to make his receivers want to block. Our offensive line also needs to improve, as we have given up too many sacks against three-man pressure. That is not always on the offensive line, as our quarterbacks have taken too long in the pocket, with our pass plays being too deep and too vanilla, and therefore taking too long, but our offensive line play has also been deficient.

Still our offensive line is not aided by a vanilla passing attack stuck in the pocket with long developing pass plays and a vanilla inside zone read running game.

3) Run Game.

Even though William Stanback is second in the CFL in rushing, our average yards gained per run ranks 6th. William Stanback often makes yards on his own, rather than due to our run blocking prowess. Our offensive line is also often zone blocking against three-man defensive lines. for our running attack. It would seem to me, that a switch to a more man blocking scheme for run plays, along with a wider variety of run plays other than the inside zone read would pay huge dividends for our offence.

DEFENSIVE CHANGES

1. Passive Pass Defense.

Our biggest issue on defense is passive pass defense. Teams just march up and down the field on our defense, as we give up too much yardage and time of possession. Our biggest issue on defense is not run stopping or pass pressure but just passive defense and poor pass coverage in zone and man defense. Our halfback play has been especially deficient.

2. Poor Tackling.

It does not surprise that our defense has the lowest number of interceptions in the CFL, as most often they are not even close to the ball. They have also been allowed to arm tackle for far too long. A high school coach would have put a stop to that deficiency many games ago, (and a high school coach would have made their receivers block for screens too) but a part of the problem is that our defensive backs are too far away from a receiver when he makes a catch and turns up field.

WRAP

Terrible red zone play calling and execution, low percentage pass plays, and mediocre blocking on offence combined with a passive pass defense scheme and poor tackling are the major culprits in our 2024 season. It's led to our Leos having the lowest time of possession in the CFL. The stats show where our Leos major problems are, and those problems could have resolved with a different approach or adaptations.

Instead, all we have done is change quarterbacks. They say that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

In 2005, with Chap Ball, it was just ‘root, toot, we just gotta execute and make plays, you know, you know” and its 2024 and the mindset is still the same – its not on the coaching .....it’s all on the players, regardless of scheme, and once again its "root toot, they just gotta execute and make plays”

[don corleone]

Michael Reilly was sacked 58 times in 2019. Somehow it does not seem like such an unrelated number. Of course the O line was no good back then.

[PigSkin_53]

Team reps are extremely important to getting in sync with rest of the offense again, but it will be interesting to see how VA responds to the full game speed of a relentless and savvy defensive attack, coming at full intensity for sixty minutes.

[B.C.FAN]

Vernon Adams will lead the same starting lineup against Montreal as Nathan Rourke had last week in Saskatchewan.

The only minor tweaks this week are on defence, with Christian Covington listed as starting nose tackle ahead of Josh Banks and Patrice Rene returning from injury to back up T.J. Lee and the secondary.

One repercussion of the quarterback switch is that the Lions will have only 3 Canadians on offence at most times and will need to have at least 5 Canadians or nationalized Americans on defence. Banks and Pete Robertson have been listed as nationalized Americans, and will rotate in various packages with Covington, Mathieu Betts, Josh Archibald and Ryder Varga, all of whom are listed as designated nationals. The Lions have not needed to use those ratio rules for most of the season when they’ve started 5 or 6 Canadians on offence.

Lions’ depth chart and roster

[Blitz]

Do we only have one back up offensive lineman going into this game B.C. Fan?

Vernon Adams will lead the same starting lineup against Montreal as Nathan Rourke had last week in Saskatchewan. B.C. Fan

Yes, this will be the same lineup that Rourke quarterbacked in Montreal. However, the situation is different in a number of ways.

There is an old saying "it is what it is;' but I still find myself feeling frustrated the way things have been handled in terms of 1) the quarterback situation and 2) that just changing quarterbacks is about the only adjustment that seems to being considered, in terms of what has ailed us, with the only justification being it might give us a 'spark'.

Firstly, a 3 Down Nation article this week, shared Nathan Rourke's thoughts.

In the meantime, the Canadian passer has spoken to other players around the league who have made midseason shifts from the NFL to the CFL regarding the challenges involved in the process. After putting up Doug Flutie-like numbers over 10 starts in 2022, it’s clear he hasn’t been at the top of his game since returning up north this past summer. "I came in mid-season and that is tricky. I think there’s been a lot of emotions, so I understand how that could take a toll on a player. I think just the transition of going from a place where things are so uncertain and your job is kinda on the line — that tension — and transitioning back to a place where you can feel comfortable, trying to relax I think is difficult for a lot of people,” said Rourke.

Obviously, Rourke is learning that the transition back from the NFL to the CFL mid-season has a history of being difficult to do successfully. However, I knew the history of players returning from the NFL to the CFL was usually a challenge so our Leos coaching staff should have known that for sure and acted accordingly. Nathan was a huge investment and his contract will also have serious salary cap implications going forward.

Rourke signed a three-year contract with B.C. that will be $749,200 in hard money in 2025 and $809,000 in hard money in 2026. There are $6,000 in award incentives available in both seasons, taking his earning potential to $755,200 and $815,000 respectively each year. ($549,200 and $609,000 for 2026 in cap monies.

As soon as that contract was signed, Vernon Adams knew his future was over, in terms of being a B.C. Lion in 2025. However, Campbell said Adams would be an important part of our Leos 2024 team for the rest of the season. It seemed, that with both quarterbacks respecting each other and wanting to support each other, the situation, for this season, could have been very positive.

Instead, we threw an unprepared Rourke in there, instead of giving him time to practice and adjust back to the CFL and to our offence along with some game rep packages to begin with. Instead, we turned Adams into a mannequin at practice and gave him no practice reps with the offence for weeks.

Then we threw Adams into a game at half time, with no practice reps, to somehow create a 'spark', just after Rourke had led us on a long successful late first half drive. Of course, Adams struggled just as Rourke had struggled with a lack of practice time.

Now we had two quarterbacks struggling and with those struggles, their confidence has been affected. We returned Rourke as the starter, and he did not light the house on fire, so now we have given Adams two days of practices, after weeks of basically being ignored at practices, and are returning him to the starters position. He may or may not start our playoff game.

Now we have a disappointed and likely embarrassed Rourke, who has now been benched twice and we have a much-disrespected Adams, who has been treated like the girl who was brought to the dance but dumped instantly, like she had a virus, once something looked better at the time, and then completely ignored.

This is like the Mad Hatter being given the controls of a pro football team. Nice way to wrap up this regular season.

In the meantime, nothing else changes. It's just musical chairs at quarterback, as if putting in different starting quarterbacks, regardless of context or situation, with little preparation and a vanilla offence is somehow, all that is needed to 'root toot, just execute, make plays, and win',

It's astounding. It's shocking. Its bewildering. It's head shaking stuff. It's not good, to say the least. 

[B.C.FAN]

Do we only have one back up offensive lineman going into this game B.C. Fan?

Yes, Andrew Peirson is the only backup offensive lineman on the roster. That's been the norm in recent years. The Lions dressed 2 backup O-linemen 3 times in 18 game this year. Rookie draft pick Anu Una, who has no game experience, was the second backup in 2 of those games.

I'm not sure what the Lions will do if an offensive tackle goes down. In most games this year they've had either David Knevel or Chris Schleuger on the roster. They both have experience at tackle. Knevel is on the 6-game injured list and Schleuger is a healthy scratch.

[Blitz]

Do we only have one back up offensive lineman going into this game B.C. Fan?

Yes, Andrew Peirson is the only backup offensive lineman on the roster. That's been the norm in recent years. The Lions dressed 2 backup O-linemen 3 times in 18 game this year. Rookie draft pick Anu Una, who has no game experience, was the second backup in 2 of those games.

I'm not sure what the Lions will do if an offensive tackle goes down. In most games this year they've had either David Knevel or Chris Schleuger on the roster. They both have experience at tackle. Knevel is on the 6-game injured list and Schleuger is a healthy scratch.

Wow, one back up offensive lineman for five positions. If a second offensive lineman is hurt, I guess we have to throw a defensive tackle in there. This does not provide me comfort.

[Toppy Vann]

Blitz, just for record VA had 3 days of practice this week not counting today's walk through.
Saw Thursday practice and he got sharper on his throws as the practice went on. Rourke had some reps but not much.

For the life of me with the Lions I don't get this. When STs are worked on they have 3 QBs and often their OC tossing passes to each other and not just soft passes. Why are REC standing around and not coming to catch for them. Anyone but a QB.

Sat in my car after watching Nathan Rourke toss passes to David Mackie for a while after others had mostly got on the bus or drove off in their cars. Despite absolutely no Lion there I continued to watch just to see his demeanour. Since coming back he's been working post practice the times I've seen him.
Then Nathan signed some autographs and some pics with a few folks in their Lions kit and signed a cast for a teen in a wheel chair then proceed to some solo half field runs before he drove off on his own likely back to the Lions facility.

The 3D article suggests he's searching for answers also as IIRC he was at a summer game pre-NFL TC and commented how VA was trusted the OC's offense and the reads. Now he can't figure out why he's not as sharp as he might. He's doing a lot of throwiing and maybe needs a break.
Who knows. Maybe he'll get some in the Als game and watching might help his focus. However, I feel for the OL struggling against teams who know what's coming.

Also when the Lions do anything with a scintilla of creativity, they seem to signal it and take away the element of surprise as it unfolds too slowly. I question who's drawing up the x's and o's at times more than the players.

It just seems at times they're calling plays but not setting something up as a Mackie or Peirson comes off and nothing for them while they're out there.

I'm still not sure why they use Hjorth Road versus Tom Binnie turf next to their own facility other than Hjorth make be a big bigger on the sidelines and have dugouts which the DEF uses.

[Blitz]

Blitz, just for record VA had 3 days of practice this week not counting today's walk through.
Saw Thursday practice and he got sharper on his throws as the practice went on. Rourke had some reps but not much.

For the life of me with the Lions I don't get this. When STs are worked on they have 3 QBs and often their OC tossing passes to each other and not just soft passes. Why are REC standing around and not coming to catch for them. Anyone but a QB.

Sat in my car after watching Nathan Rourke toss passes to David Mackie for a while after others had mostly got on the bus or drove off in their cars. Despite absolutely no Lion there I continued to watch just to see his demeanour. Since coming back he's been working post practice the times I've seen him.
Then Nathan signed some autographs and some pics with a few folks in their Lions kit and signed a cast for a teen in a wheel chair then proceed to some solo half field runs before he drove off on his own likely back to the Lions facility.

The 3D article suggests he's searching for answers also as IIRC he was at a summer game pre-NFL TC and commented how VA was trusted the OC's offense and the reads. Now he can't figure out why he's not as sharp as he might. He's doing a lot of throwiing and maybe needs a break.
Who knows. Maybe he'll get some in the Als game and watching might help his focus. However, I feel for the OL struggling against teams who know what's coming.

Also when the Lions do anything with a scintilla of creativity, they seem to signal it and take away the element of surprise as it unfolds too slowly. I question who's drawing up the x's and o's at times more than the players.

It just seems at times they're calling plays but not setting something up as a Mackie or Peirson comes off and nothing for them while they're out there.

I'm still not sure why they use Hjorth Road versus Tom Binnie turf next to their own facility other than Hjorth make be a big bigger on the sidelines and have dugouts which the DEF uses.

Thanks for sharing Toppy!! Interesting stuff.

Well, its good that VA got in 3 practices this week. That is at least better than two practices, but he should have been getting reps all along.

Its hard to know for sure but I believe Rourke's major issue is that he was rushed back into the starters position too soon. He also was not a player who tried out for the NFL and then returned mid-season. He was away for an extra year down south. He likely got very few reps at all down there most of the time and was not even running the scout team. That is a lot of rust.

Its also important to remember that Rourke was only a starter for 10 CFL games, then got hurt, and started a playoff game. We have a long history here in B.C. from Casey Printers, Buck Pierce, Travis Lulay, Jonathan Jennings who had early success but there can be numerous factors - injuries, second guessing, the constant pressure, number of times hit, etc. etc. that can get in the way of longer term success. Early success does not always translate into longer term success and that is not because teams get to know their tendencies as much as its just challenging to maintain a very high rate of success when the margin for success is so thin.

My best guess but its still a guess is that both Adams and Rourke will be starting quarterbacks next year and both will be fine.

However, for this year, we have not scored an offensive touchdown since Week 14 and it was Chase Brice throwing the touchdown pass.

Its obvious that one of both Nathan Rourke and Vernon Adams will not be here next year. Our Leos are already over the cap. Adams is set to make $500,000 in 2025 and $505,000 in 2026 after signing a three-year extension in February. Rourke has a 2.5-year contract for $250,000 for the rest of 2024, $749,000 in 2025 and $809,000 in 2026, with $200,000 of the 2025/2026 contract years in non-salary cap marketing money.

Would the Leos start Adams in the playoffs, have him win a couple of those contests, and then get rid of him? There are so many ramifications right now.

But as we look at this quarterback situation, it's also a shame that its turned out this way so far, for two very good quarterbacks, for a lot of players like William Stanback, and for Leos fans. You are correct in that they have essentially had one hand tied behind their backs attempting to run a vanilla, predictable offence that also has a high degree of difficulty to execute successfully. On top of that they are given no gifts to make the job easier - no stretch plays, no counters, few pitches or fly sweeps, no screens, quarterback draws, misdirection bootlegs, etc. Just pocket passing, a search running play.

It is incredulous, that our Leos have the worst passing percentage in the league and that is not mostly on our quarterbacks - they both have excellent arms and usually throw with a high degree of accuracy.

I will just provide one example of why it's tough for our offence to execute. Imagine you are the opposing defensive end. You know we will be in the pocket when we pass and you know where the quarterback will be. You know he will be spied so you can take an inside or an outside route. You know we do not bootleg so contain is not an issue and the spy will come up if you are caught inside. You know we zone block and if you see our deep zone read play, you can crash down inside, with no fear of needing to contain.

However, if we ran outside and inside and if our quarterback play actioned and bootlegged, then your job would be much more difficult. You need to contain for both the run and the pass. Now you only have one option. Now it's much easier to block you. for both the running game and for the passing attack.

It's like our offence gives opposing defensive ends a gift all game instead of giving them a lot to worry about and be concerned about. We make life much easier for them and give them lots of opportunities for sacks and tackles for loss and on field celebrating.

It's not good football. The biggest advantage of football is the element of surprise. The biggest disadvantage is predictably and rigidity. We tend to excel in the latter.

[SammyGreene]

Blitz, just for record VA had 3 days of practice this week not counting today's walk through.
Saw Thursday practice and he got sharper on his throws as the practice went on. Rourke had some reps but not much.

For the life of me with the Lions I don't get this. When STs are worked on they have 3 QBs and often their OC tossing passes to each other and not just soft passes. Why are REC standing around and not coming to catch for them. Anyone but a QB.

Sat in my car after watching Nathan Rourke toss passes to David Mackie for a while after others had mostly got on the bus or drove off in their cars. Despite absolutely no Lion there I continued to watch just to see his demeanour. Since coming back he's been working post practice the times I've seen him.
Then Nathan signed some autographs and some pics with a few folks in their Lions kit and signed a cast for a teen in a wheel chair then proceed to some solo half field runs before he drove off on his own likely back to the Lions facility.

The 3D article suggests he's searching for answers also as IIRC he was at a summer game pre-NFL TC and commented how VA was trusted the OC's offense and the reads. Now he can't figure out why he's not as sharp as he might. He's doing a lot of throwiing and maybe needs a break.
Who knows. Maybe he'll get some in the Als game and watching might help his focus. However, I feel for the OL struggling against teams who know what's coming.

Also when the Lions do anything with a scintilla of creativity, they seem to signal it and take away the element of surprise as it unfolds too slowly. I question who's drawing up the x's and o's at times more than the players.

It just seems at times they're calling plays but not setting something up as a Mackie or Peirson comes off and nothing for them while they're out there.

I'm still not sure why they use Hjorth Road versus Tom Binnie turf next to their own facility other than Hjorth make be a big bigger on the sidelines and have dugouts which the DEF uses.

Some great stuff Toppy. Given how few media attend practices these days it’s great to have another set of eyes there. Practising at Hjorth Road regularly is a strange one. Is it a newer turf than Binnie? What an inconvenience. I take it the players are bussed there from the facility in their gear?

As we all agree, Rourke will be fine and is the least of our concerns. Kid’s work ethic is off the charts and he always impresses me how much he knows about his opponents even being away from the league for 2 years.

Sad to see us roll out essentially the same line up as the Mosiac beat down for a mean nothing game. Stanback should see limited touches but this coaching staff being in the hot seat means they won’t hold anything back.

Next time you are at practice can you see if Ciante Evans is even around? There has been zero word on why he has done nothing for 3 weeks for non injury related reasons.

[Blitz]

A couple of interesting stats going into this game.


Justin McInnis leads the league with 1,363 receiving yards. He is on the cusp of becoming the first Canadian to pass the 1,400-yards mark since Dave Sapunjis hit 1,655 in 1995.

William Stanback should finish the season as his best ever. He is 29 rushing yards shy of the career-high 1,176 he hit while playing for the Als in 2021. Stanback rushed for 128 yards on Sept. 6 when we beat the Als in Montreal.

The Als have one of the best defenses in the CFL, so both will need to have solid games tomorrow.