Province Article Today by Susan Lazaruk

[sj-roc]

The headline of the article is complete bunk. The "trendy Whitecaps" are not "gaining rapidly on legacy Lions". What's really happening is the Lions have fallen, attendance-wise at least, back to Whitecaps levels, which have barely budged, which is why there is no inclination on their part to open up more seating.

[TheLionKing]

Who is Susan Lazaruk ?

[dupsdell1]

The headline of the article is complete bunk. The "trendy Whitecaps" are not "gaining rapidly on legacy Lions". What's really happening is the Lions have fallen, attendance-wise at least, back to Whitecaps levels, which have barely budged, which is why there is no inclination on their part to open up more seating.

I agree there budget does not allow them to open up more seats , because if they did open 35,000 seats and they only sold 25,000 whitecaps would lose so much money , were the lions would probably break even or make a bit of money because of the higher ticket prices . I am a business man my self and one thing that is very basic in business is you have to know your market and the whitecaps have done a great job of doing that were the lions have dropped the ball.

[aklawitter]

Wonder how the inferiority whiners feel about the Giants and Canadians, both true minor league teams...

[JohnHenry]

BooHoo, it's not fair, the Bells play in an American league, that's why the TV ratings are so bad. Toronto FC drew a national audience of 14,000 for their Chicago game last season. TFC ratings are almost always in the low 5-figures with the Bells not much higher. If that's their regional audience, that's nothing I'd crow about.

The fact is the Lions have nothing to do with the Bells. It wouldn't matter one whit if the soccer team has tremendous success or goes out of business when the MLS house-of-cards collapses after their expansion fee windfall dries up. Different sports, different markets.

Forbes has projected the Bells will lose $6 million this season while the Lions reportedly have been turning a profit for many years...yes, in an All-Canadian league!

[rb]

Whitecaps are essentially a non-entity outside of the Metro Vancouver region and maybe Victoria. Whereas there is definitely interest in the Lions in the interior and north. Outsiders think of Canada as just a hockey country, but there is a very big interest in football when you combine CFL and NFL-- it's bigger as the #2 spectator/TV sport in Canada compared to the #2 sport in most countries.

But in the longer run, it might be a different story in terms of soccer vs. football in Canada. I don't watch soccer, whether it's the Whitecaps or anyone else as I find it boring, but it's by far the biggest sport in the world and is becoming more popular in Canada as hundreds of thousands of immigrants arrive here annually with no interest in the CFL/NFL, or hockey, or baseball, or pretty much any other sport besides futbol.

There are 44 soccer leagues around the world that have annual revenues of 50 million Euros or greater. Some people try to talk up basketball as a potential global rival, but the number of basketball leagues that hit that revenue mark is only four. And the second biggest basketball league in the world (Spain's) is barely over 100 million Euros in revenue-- the CFL does more than that. Whereas the second biggest soccer league (Germany's) does more than 2 BILLION Euros in annual revenues, with Spain's La Liga also around 2 billion. English Premier League takes in almost 5 billion Euros in revenue. The second-tier English league is over 600 million. The third-tier English league takes in as much as the English rugby premiership (less than 200 million Euros, about the same as CFL revenues)-- and the rugby premiership is the biggest non-soccer league there. They really don't care about any sport other than soccer. That's how it is in a lot of the world now, and it's hard to imagine that there won't be a significant shift toward soccer in Canada given the huge ongoing shift in demographics.

[David]

But haven't soccer people been saying that "soccer in North America is the sport of the future" for like, decades now??

Whitecaps supporters are like fans of the quirky TV comedy "Community" on NBC. For several years there was a buzz about this show. It was a critical darling. Fans adored it. Just one issue; not many people tuned in to watch it. So when the network announced it was dropping the show from its line-up after Season 3, its rather brash, outspoken, and nutty cult following demanded the show's return, flooding the network with Tweets and Facebook messages. They even created a flash mob outside NBC's Rockefeller Center headquarters in New York City to Occupy NBC!

The parallel being, Whitecaps supporters will have you believe that even going to a mid-week match-up vs Real Salt Lake is akin to a religious experience.

Ummm. Yea. Okay....

My one question for Ms. Lazaruk would be, when the Whitecaps supporter said that atmosphere at 96,000 seat Wembley Stadium is dull by comparison, did you actually keep a straight face?



DH

[rb]

Whitecaps will do okay because of soccer's overall popularity, although they'll never be a huge draw because MLS will always be a mid-tier league. But all they have to do is deflect enough sponsorship/attention away from the Lions for the damage to be done.

The league that I think could be huge in Vancouver, if given another chance, is the NBA. Immigration to Vancouver is mostly from Asia where soccer is not nearly as monolithic as it is in Europe, South America, Africa. Basketball is THE sport in the Philippines and is also quite popular in China. Add the sizable influx of young Canadian players into the NBA; I think the interest would definitely be there. Just needs a stable ownership group that wouldn't be prone to making a franchise-destroying GM hire like Stu Jackson.

[B.C.FAN]

The league that I think could be huge in Vancouver, if given another chance, is the NBA. Immigration to Vancouver is mostly from Asia where soccer is not nearly as monolithic as it is in Europe, South America, Africa. Basketball is THE sport in the Philippines and is also quite popular in China. Add the sizable influx of young Canadian players into the NBA; I think the interest would definitely be there. Just needs a stable ownership group that wouldn't be prone to making a franchise-destroying GM hire like Stu Jackson.

Agreed. I've never been to a soccer game but I went to as many NBA games as possible when the Grizzlies were here. There is a strong base of basketball support that could support an NBA franchise with proper ownership and management

[WestCoastJoe]

The league that I think could be huge in Vancouver, if given another chance, is the NBA. Immigration to Vancouver is mostly from Asia where soccer is not nearly as monolithic as it is in Europe, South America, Africa. Basketball is THE sport in the Philippines and is also quite popular in China. Add the sizable influx of young Canadian players into the NBA; I think the interest would definitely be there. Just needs a stable ownership group that wouldn't be prone to making a franchise-destroying GM hire like Stu Jackson.

Agreed. I've never been to a soccer game but I went to as many NBA games as possible when the Grizzlies were here. There is a strong base of basketball support that could support an NBA franchise with proper ownership and management

Yes, I think the support would be there. The city and the Lower Mainland are big enough. The potential fan base is there.

Last time, however, I really did not like the attitude of the players. I won't miss them at all.

And the game itself, pro basketball? I would rather watch NCAA, or even local high school or college basketball.

The league screwed us over. Heisley screwed us over. Good bye. Good riddance.

This is just my opinion ...

[Qman]

You can't compare national TV numbers for Lions and Whitecaps as the basis of any arguments. You can't.

The Lions are part of a nine-team league that's been around 60 years. Every game is one canadian city vs another canadian city. There's never two CFL games on at the same time. It receives massive exposure and coverage from TSN.

Whitecaps TV numbers aren't good. But, despite also being on TSN, they're NOT part of a heritage league like the CFL...their league is young. The vast majority of games are NOT against other Canadian teams.

So Whitecaps TV numbers are essentially regional numbers, while the Lions numbers are national numbers.

It's apples and oranges.

I've said it before. The Lions are in this spot for many reasons, not the least of which is the pervasive attitude that they're really, really huge and popular - based on national TV numbers. It's a red herring. And as a result, the team has allowed itself to think it can charge overly-high prices for tickets, that it can get away with minimal marketing efforts, and that it doesn't need to actively push to get younger fans into the building.

It's a mistake. And it's based, largely, on those TV numbers that keep getting brought up

apples to apples

BC Lions local numbers are generally 300,000 mark ... actually pretty similar to canucks non-HNIC ratings
Whitecaps are 50-60,000ish

[johnnycanuck]

I have Lions season tickets but also get to about 6 or 7 Whitecaps games a season. Also go to at least one or two Seahawks games a year and usually one NCAA game as well (last year, Cal vs. Oregon State at Reser this year will be the Ducks at Husky Stadium). A few Canucks games and even a C's game now and then.

In other words, when I say that the least enjoyable of all of those right now (both in terms of the on-field product and the fan experience) is the BC Lions, I have genuine bona fides to back up my claim. I have no issue with her article. Whitecaps games are more enjoyable right now. Setting aside the product on the field, the Whitecaps do a vastly superior job on fan experience and, in terms of professionalism, a wildly superior approach.

The Lions are in serious trouble. Winning is not the only issue. They need to fix the product on the field (and I actually think that will happen under Tedford, notwithstanding the way the season's gone so far), but they also need to completely gut their marketing and promotions department and spend real coin to lure people with a track record of success ... if they don't, the Lions will continue to wither away.

Her point was that the pecking order now places the Whitecaps #2 in the city in terms of fan awareness and appeal. I would agree with that and the criticism on the OP is off the mark.

[JohnHenry]

Ex-Brits are always telling us Canadians how dumb we are because we don't watch soccer, which is fabulously popular in England and around the world. For reference, I checked out the British sports ratings at the time. Soccer was No. 1 with Darts and Billiards rounding out the Top 3. If all I had to watch were darts or billiards, I guess I'd be a soccer fan too!

Luckily Canadian sport fans don't rely on soccer or darts for our sporting pleasure, we have CFL, NHL, NFL, NCAA, NBA, MLB, Nascar, PGA, ect, plus first-rate EPL soccer on TV which normally draws twice the viewers as the MLS in Canada.

Not to dump on the MLS, but who cares if the Bells are No. 2 in "awareness and appeal"? Why is that important to anyone? So Vancouver's population is more aware of the Whitecaps than the Lions. That's frankly hard to believe, but so what? The Whitecaps are more appealing? I guess a first-place club in a fourth-rate league is more appealing than a 4th-place club in a 1st-rate league?

[Rocko604]

There's no doubt the Whitecaps are attracting younger fans. But it's not to say the Lions can't do that either. I remember a time not even 10 years ago, the Lions would pack in 35,000 while the Canucks were playing at the same time next door.

All they need to do is first starting winning by playing an exciting brand of football, and secondly, get a new owner, along with a president, who have their finger on the pulse of this city. No reason the Lions can't attract the hipsters Lenarduzzi was talking about, but right now there's nothing to bring them in. Hell, there's barely anything to attract the regular fans.

The Lions biggest problem right now is that when compared to the Whitecaps recent form, and the Seahawks for that matter, they're boring as hell and awful to watch.

[CardiacKid]

I have Lions season tickets but also get to about 6 or 7 Whitecaps games a season. Also go to at least one or two Seahawks games a year and usually one NCAA game as well (last year, Cal vs. Oregon State at Reser this year will be the Ducks at Husky Stadium). A few Canucks games and even a C's game now and then.

In other words, when I say that the least enjoyable of all of those right now (both in terms of the on-field product and the fan experience) is the BC Lions, I have genuine bona fides to back up my claim. I have no issue with her article. Whitecaps games are more enjoyable right now. Setting aside the product on the field, the Whitecaps do a vastly superior job on fan experience and, in terms of professionalism, a wildly superior approach.

The Lions are in serious trouble. Winning is not the only issue. They need to fix the product on the field (and I actually think that will happen under Tedford, notwithstanding the way the season's gone so far), but they also need to completely gut their marketing and promotions department and spend real coin to lure people with a track record of success ... if they don't, the Lions will continue to wither away.

Her point was that the pecking order now places the Whitecaps #2 in the city in terms of fan awareness and appeal. I would agree with that and the criticism on the OP is off the mark.

Please don't take my question to be snide or sarcastic but I am genuinely curious as to what the Whitecaps do in terms of marketing and fan experience that ranks them far ahead of the Lions? I don't live in the Lower Mainland so I expect a lot of the Whitecaps marketing simply escapes my view.

There are things I believe the Lions could improve but there are some changes with the game day experience that I do appreciate. And yes, I do agree the Lions are not very entertaining at this moment but I believe the very nature of the CFL game makes for entertaining football....despite the Lions efforts to prove otherwise.