2011 Western Final Ticket Count

[Ravi]

What about some good old fashioned trash talk?
I know some people (wally included) consider it bad sportsmanship but you can't say it doesn't stir up interest and controversy - both of which sell tickets.

I know it's too late for this to take flight now but it would have been interesting to see the reaction to Calvin McCarty tweeting that Elimimian hits like a woman.
And Sol to fire back that McCarty runs like an old man. Or some such thing.

What was it that Roy Shivers said about Carl Kidd back in '04 before that West Final? That couldn't have hurt ticket sales for that game.

[mrbigglesworth]

Any new update on the ticket sales

Haven't heard anything official. Only update I saw was that the Lions "as of Friday are closing in on 40,000" (source: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/CFL/ ... 90701.html)

Looking on TM:
- lower bowl singles only
- upper bowl coaches sideline is into the upper rows (UU to ZZ)
- upper bowl red zone, corner, and endzone are generally between rows JJ to MM (which I think is about rows 15-20 of about 30 rows)

With some quick math using the above numbers from TM, I compute 41K sold as of now. Seems about right since we were on pace to reach 40K at around noon today.

This is based on:
- 26K total seats each in the upper and lower bowl
- lower bowl sold out
- coaches sideline accounts for 12/54 (22%) of all upper bowl seats and is 85% sold out
- red zone, corner, and endzone account for remaining 78% of upper bowl seats an are 50% sold out

[SammyGreene]

Sales seem to be slowly picking up...

As of Thursday afternoon, the B.C. Lions had sold about 37,000 tickets for the game against the Edmonton Eskimos. Lions president and CEO Dennis Skulsky said he’s OK with the number, even though the new facility has room for 52,000 spectators.

Source: http://www.canada.com/sports/sellout+Va ... story.html

At the end of the day there's only so many dollars to go around and there are some challenges out there with jobs. Disposable income could be less than it used to be and people are having to be more selective.

"But I do know if you have a winner that automatically guarantees you some success."

Skulsky said the East and West finals have had a history of being tougher sells.

"I've been told by others in the league who've been around for a while that the Eastern and Western final are the toughest games to sell because it's such a quick turnaround," he said.

"You only have one week to sell and promote the game.

"My sense is that for the year the CFL attendance is going to be up slightly and I think these playoff games are going to reflect modest growth."

Boy Sklusky sure lays out some lame ass excuses in this article. A 2 week window for a game is a tough sell? Really? God help them if it was a one week turnaround for a semi-final. Sounds more like a team president spinning the wheels on damage control.
I do agree the Lions ticket prices are out of whack with a lot of their fan base (even the cheaper 7-Eleven seats are no longer an option) but it really should be a can't miss event if u r even a casual Lions fan.

Angus Reid apparently took a shot at the ticket sales for this game on one of the local tv stations although I haven't seen it.

[bc49]

That SLAM sports article cracks me up with its ignorance.
It's as if a sellout was a foregone conclusion and it's actually news that ticket sales are only at 40k and there must be something wrong in the world.
Nope, 40k is pretty good in this economy with these ticket prices in a city where english is the second language in half the households.

[sj-roc]

I believe the host team of the Grey Cup actually purchases the event outright from the league.

ONly if they choose to. The league has made it an option for a certain price.

It's been many, many years since the host team has not taken the league up on the opportunity. Might have to go back to a time when it wasn't an option.

It is indeed lucrative for the host team to buy the GC game:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Host ... story.html

Excerpt:

Grey Cup hosts win, even if they don’t play

A CFL title victory would add significantly to the B.C. Lions’ coffers, but just having game here pays off

By Bruce Constantineau, Vancouver Sun November 18, 2011 7:06 PM

VANCOUVER — The B.C. Lions will make money just hosting the Grey Cup. They don't have to make the big show to profit from it.

The game sold out months ago and will generate more than $10 million in ticket revenue, which is theirs to keep.

Those funds should more than offset the multimillion-dollar fee the club paid to the CFL for the Grey Cup rights and whatever rent will be due to BC Place.

Grey Cup Festival general manager Scott Ackles said the four-day festival – featuring a parade, gala dinners, street events and other activities – has been budgeted to break even so it shouldn’t drain any profits.

But a Lions appearance in the championship game next weekend has the potential to do a lot more for the club’s bottom line.

Lions executives wouldn’t comment on the financial implications of a Grey Cup appearance, fearing they might jinx the team, but there would clearly be significant short-term and long-term benefits.

[Ravi]

For what it's worth, ticket sales are comparable to what the Lions drew for the West Final in 1987 which took place a week before Vancouver hosted that year's Grey Cup. Attendance for the West Final that year was 44,385 as the Esks thrashed the Lions 31-7 in a game which marked the end of the careers of several prominent Lions. It is a game that was recently shown on ESPN Classic Canada and the late Don Wittman referred to the crowd that day as a "good crowd".

[sj-roc]

Angus Reid apparently took a shot at the ticket sales for this game on one of the local tv stations although I haven't seen it.

I didn't hear it either but I know it wouldn't be the first time he's taken this tack and he even (re)tweeted about it this evening. I generally disagree with players being negative/critical of ticket sale levels. I don't know exactly what AR said or even the full context of it — did he bring up the matter unprovoked (unlikely I would guess) or was he (more likely) asked about it point blank? — but rather than being unnecessarily confrontational about it, put a positive spin on it: thank the people who have already bought tickets, let the fans know they're welcome/appreciated, encourage fence-sitters to get on board, they can make a difference, good seats still available at bclions.com, be a part of the largest playoff crowd this year and help cheer us on to the Grey Cup next week, yadda yadda yadda. But frankly it's tough to be critical of AR when Skulsky seems to be setting a rather wishy washy example in his own interview. It's like when coaches complain in the media about bad officiating; that outlook can trickle down to the players.

[David]

The Marketing behind this game has been a massive FAIL on the part of the Lions from start to finish. The arrogance of expecting 54,000 tickets to be magically snapped up with little push despite the 1st place finish is frankly, astounding.

All season they've been advertising home games in a special 1/8 of a front page wraparound in The Province. Except for today and yesterday, their biggest selling days leading up to the WDF. No announcement of half-time entertainment, daily ticket updates, anthem singer, or special giveaways. Not a peep from Skulsky or Chayka to allay people's fears about a possible repeat of the concession debacle. Not a thanks to the fans of BC for sticking with them after a dreadful 1-6 start, and seeing them through to a first place finish while averaging 36,500 at a renovated BC Place. Nope. Just treat this like any other game despite the MASSIVE cash haul from the WDF and Grey Cup.

Just open the frickin' doors Sunday for a 1:30pm kick-off. But for one last kick in the nuts to the sporting public, have one of your team leaders appear on the city's #1 dinner hour news station to express his profound disappointment at "only" 40,000 loud and proud, dyed-in-the-orange-wool Lions fans in the stands (which could climb higher and probably will but NO ONE likes the sniff of a giant turd, nor will they be 'guilted' into attending). He's now made a story that didn't have to be there.

The first rule of event selling is to provide positives. Spin if you have to, but never admit defeat. There's plenty of time after the fact to express disapointment. All I've read this week from Skulsky and Cartmell is ready made excuses for people NOT to attend. It boggles the mind how badly they've botched this. And you know what? We're still going to have a pretty good crowd Sunday, despite the Lions' bungling.


DH

[sj-roc]

The Marketing behind this game has been a massive FAIL on the part of the Lions from start to finish.

Great post, David — sounds like you agree with what I had to say about Skulsky and AR in my last post above. How ironic is this stuff we're hearing from one guy with decades of newspaper experience, and another with his own weekly radio show, arguably the two most media savvy guys in the whole organisation?

I suggested in a previous post the Lions' poor start this year as one of possibly many factors hampering WF ticket sales. Now I have to wonder if someone in business ops similarly looked at our 0-5 record back in late July and said, "Well, looks like we won't need to worry about having to promote any home playoff game *again* this year. Screw it, let's just blow the whole marketing budget on the BCP re-opening." I mean, Occam's razor, right?

[mrbigglesworth]

I suggested in a previous post the Lions' poor start this year as one of possibly many factors hampering WF ticket sales. Now I have to wonder if someone in business ops similarly looked at our 0-5 record back in late July and said, "Well, looks like we won't need to worry about having to promote any home playoff game *again* this year. Screw it, let's just blow the whole marketing budget on the BCP re-opening." I mean, Occam's razor, right?

I suspect the WDF promotion and marketing would be treated as a separate budget since it also represents a separate revenue stream.

[mrbigglesworth]

Seeing a packed stadium says, "Success." And seeing success makes people (spectators and sponsors alike) want to be a part of it.

Empty seats say the opposite.

To my mind, it is far better (specifically from a business perspective) to have a packed house and make a little less money this one time, than to make a few extra bucks on just one game but have people witness thousands of vacant seats. Braley does not seem to understand that for some reason.

In professional sports, there is no more important optic (and thus valuable marketing asset) than the sight of a completely full venue. It should always be the prime directive, something to be achieved at all costs.

I was thinking more about what you wrote Centrum and couldn't help but think of the Bills series in TO. If that doesn't reinforce your point, I don't know what does. I guess we'll never know the exact number of seats that were given away by Rogers at each game over the years, but speculation has run from thousands to tens of thousands of seats per game. All done for the optics of fans in the stands.

I totally agree with the philosophy that simply giving away tickets devalues the brand (and I wouldn't suggest for a second that the Lions do that), but with effective advertising and promotion they could bring people in while still adding brand value.

For many years, the Lions had great commercials (the ceiling fan flag, the airline cart, the baby shower, the airbag...) which got people talking about the team. I don't see these anymore. The marketing effort seems to have shifted to BBQ sauce and energy drinks (which I like too, but not at the expense of the commercials). I don't think you can ever stop direct marketing and rely solely on indirect marketing and the product to sell itself - Coke and McDonalds have been doing pretty well the last half century, but if you pulled their advertising campaigns they would likely drop off the face of the earth in a decade or two.

IMO, for the WDF, the Lions really needed an impactful, high-energy TV commercial blitz to raise the buzz. I like the pregame video they show in-stadium: its black and white with orange highlights, and it has shots of Paris getting the team fired up along with some game action from Empire, all set to a pounding drum track IIRC. For a quick, slick commercial, they could have used that video and added the WDF ticket info in spoken or written words and, voila, they're only now paying for airtime.

[Buonosjanet69]

have to agree with the lack of marketing aspect as these things should be emphasis of their marketing:

-the state-of-the-art stadium hosting its first playoff game (keep mentioning the stadium. there are still many that have not seen it, especially in a do or die atmosphere).
-the Lions being on a worst to first roll
-hosting its first WF in awhile
-playing for the Grey Cup at home and for the chance to redeem the Stanley Cup loss
-having a breakout season for one of the best quarterbacks in the league who may win the MOP. For those NFL status fans, keep mentioning how Lulay will most likely garner interest down south. Hate to pander to the NFL but in a way, this sells our product too.
-Being the team that Canada loves to hate due to its beautiful city and weather, stadium, dominant team, hot cheerleaders, cool uniforms, hard ass coach, super talented players...whatever gives us that marquee franchise swagger hehe.

There are what, 12 per-cent less seats in the dome now? 52K as opposed to 59K? So we have less seats to fill, in spite of the economy, in spite of the Canuck dollars eating up budget, in spite of the Grey Cup around the corner, etc. The city has grown in population, the stadium is beautiful and this team has captured the imaginations of many now. They have been on a roll that has given them crazy momentum and this, combined with the now sparkling BC Place, should be reason enough to bring back the fans and win a few new ones at the same time. This team is not staggering into the playoffs like the team that started 11-0, this team is firing on all cycliners now, and this could be the remarkable final chapter of an improbable story that many of us will never forget if they can win the next two games.

My predicition? 48K, which would have been 52K in the old stadium if you want to look at percentage of seats filled. That's a good number.

But lets focus on what we should numbers we should have for now and scrutinize what we end up with later.

[bc49]

Has anyone actually heard that the Lions are receiving the revenue from the WDF and not the league.
All playoff gate goes to the league unless other arrangements (IE: a big cheque) have been made.
It seems like a no brainer that Mr Braley would purchase the revenue rights but perhaps he did not, or was not permitted to.
If this is a league game then it would go a long way to explain the lack of advertising budget from the Leos.

[mrbigglesworth]

Has anyone actually heard that the Lions are receiving the revenue from the WDF and not the league.
All playoff gate goes to the league unless other arrangements (IE: a big cheque) have been made.
It seems like a no brainer that Mr Braley would purchase the revenue rights but perhaps he did not, or was not permitted to.
If this is a league game then it would go a long way to explain the lack of advertising budget from the Leos.

Good point. Hadn't thought of that. Perhaps they took a pass on the WDF given that the Grey Cup is in town and they stand to make millions there...

[Rammer]

Has anyone actually heard that the Lions are receiving the revenue from the WDF and not the league.
All playoff gate goes to the league unless other arrangements (IE: a big cheque) have been made.
It seems like a no brainer that Mr Braley would purchase the revenue rights but perhaps he did not, or was not permitted to.
If this is a league game then it would go a long way to explain the lack of advertising budget from the Leos.

Remember that the break even spot suggested by Brailey a few years ago was around 35K (although at the time, we speculated that 30K would clear the bottom line). I think that with the increase in tickets, the Lions have purchased this knowing that there was money to be banked.