Can someone explain this to me?

[joe kapp22]

I'd love to hear how:

We can feature an offence with skill positional players featuring:

Lulay-12 starts
Gore 2 starts
Foster-2 starts
Collins- 2 starts
Black-9 starts

And expect to see anything but what we have been seeing, mainly wild inconsistencies, simple play botched, spectacular play made, throws slightly off target etc.

All offseason the mantra was "Wally won't play young players" and yet I see the above, and see Andrew Harris scoring a TD and returning kicks, and yet when the professed fans get exactly what they spent the offseason asking for, playing younger particularly NI players, and then complain about the results?

26 pts and 32 pts, last yr we had 25 pts and 18 pts to open the season, 43 pts vs 58 pts, this against the GC Champions and the West Division Champions, and yet?

[1greatmysticbushape]

its a mystery

[WestCoastJoe]

I'd love to hear how:

We can feature an offence with skill positional players featuring:

Lulay-12 starts
Gore 2 starts
Foster-2 starts
Collins- 2 starts
Black-9 starts

And expect to see anything but what we have been seeing, mainly wild inconsistencies, simple play botched, spectacular play made, throws slightly off target etc.

All offseason the mantra was "Wally won't play young players" and yet I see the above, and see Andrew Harris scoring a TD and returning kicks, and yet when the professed fans get exactly what they spent the offseason asking for, playing younger particularly NI players, and then complain about the results?

26 pts and 32 pts, last yr we had 25 pts and 18 pts to open the season, 43 pts vs 58 pts, this against the GC Champions and the West Division Champions, and yet?

Good points, ed.

On the other hand, some people were saying last year that we needed to get those young receivers significant live game reps last year. Work them in slowly. Plan ahead. Instead we throw them to the wolves this year. Four brand new receivers (Gore, Foster, Collins, Moore). No one that I recall was asking for four brand new receivers all at once. Yikes. Of course there will be drops. Imagine suddenly playing with live bullets in front of large crowds, with no prior experience, without being worked in slowly. And not just one receiver, but four. That is a management problem IMO.

And then there are the things that do not change: short yardage failure, red zone failure, poor tackling, lack of pass rush, et cetera. And that is a coaching problem IMO.

IMO fans that are unhappy have some grounds on which to base their opinions.

Things might improve. Sure. But will we tackle better in the secondary? Will we have more short yardage success? Perhaps. Will we get a pass rush? Perhaps. Will we make better game management decisions? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

And once again, I am not calling for any coaching changes. That is Braley's call at the top. And it is Wally's call within the team. I still enjoy watching the games and practices.

[BcBenny]

I completely understand the young receivers having a bit of a learning curve. However I was hoping our wonderful coordinator
would possibly use the short/mid pass game a bit more and allow them to build up their confidence instead of having to go for
big catches play in play out.

Another head scratcher for me

[joe kapp22]

I'd love to hear how:

We can feature an offence with skill positional players featuring:

Lulay-12 starts
Gore 2 starts
Foster-2 starts
Collins- 2 starts
Black-9 starts

And expect to see anything but what we have been seeing, mainly wild inconsistencies, simple play botched, spectacular play made, throws slightly off target etc.

All offseason the mantra was "Wally won't play young players" and yet I see the above, and see Andrew Harris scoring a TD and returning kicks, and yet when the professed fans get exactly what they spent the offseason asking for, playing younger particularly NI players, and then complain about the results?

26 pts and 32 pts, last yr we had 25 pts and 18 pts to open the season, 43 pts vs 58 pts, this against the GC Champions and the West Division Champions, and yet?

Good points, ed.

On the other hand, some people were saying last year that we needed to get those young receivers significant live game reps last year. Work them in slowly. Plan ahead. Instead we throw them to the wolves this year. Four brand new receivers (Gore, Foster, Collins, Moore). No one that I recall was asking for four brand new receivers all at once. Yikes. Of course there will be drops. Imagine suddenly playing with live bullets in front of large crowds, with no prior experience, without being worked in slowly. And not just one receiver, but four. That is a management problem IMO.

And then there are the things that do not change: short yardage failure, red zone failure, poor tackling, lack of pass rush, et cetera. And that is a coaching problem IMO.

IMO fans that are unhappy have some grounds on which to base their opinions.

Things might improve. Sure. But will we tackle better in the secondary? Will we have more short yardage success? Perhaps. Will we get a pass rush? Perhaps. Will we make better game management decisions? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

"The running game" what does that mean? Seriously, isn't the point to put points on the scoreboard? Do rushing Td's count for 7 pts and not 6?

Lack of passrush? 5 turnovers last evening.

Manny A left, PJax's knee is a problem and O'Neil Wilson was dreadfully unproductive, we had to replace at least 3 Wr's before the season even began.

[B.C.FAN]

This offence is much faster and perhaps more explosive than any in Wally's tenure. Wild inconsistency is natural with young receivers and QBs but they will get better. You can't argue with the points and passing yardage they've put up in two games, even with all the drops. This team is capable of leading the league in offence this year.

I am more concerned about the wild inconsistency on the defence, which is supposed to be the veteran strength of the team. Teams have had success throwing the ball to the wide side against Sanchez, who seems to have missed more tackles in two games than he did in 15 games played last year.

The Lions gave up four TDs in four consecutive Calgary possessions in a 15-minute span. The Lions held the Stamps out of the end zone in 13 other possessions in the game. The previous week, Montreal scored three TDs in their first five possessions and also had a field goal and had a short missed field goal. The Lions held them to two field goals the rest of the way.

Why the short-term meltdowns? The Lions did not give up many big plays last year. They've given up too many in the first two weeks of this year, mainly due to poor tackling.

[swervynmerv]

I completely understand the young receivers having a bit of a learning curve. However I was hoping our wonderful coordinator
would possibly use the short/mid pass game a bit more and allow them to build up their confidence instead of having to go for
big catches play in play out.

Another head scratcher for me

That is my point exactly! Yes our young players have very little "game time", but that is where good coaching comes in with a solid game plan utilizing simple plays and veteran talent sprinkled in to alleviate the pressure on the young guys. Going for 30-40 yard bombs at the end of the game when all wee needed were 10 yards to get in "Money's" range were not the fault of the young players. Calling a time out to freeze a young kicker on a short FG, that turned out to be needed later or not going for it on 3rd and five last week when we needed 7 points to tie the game were not the young guys fault either! In my opinion, the mistakes will happen with growing pains, but the OC and Head Coach, with all their CFL experiance, have not helped the players the past two games with their game managment. You would think Wally and Chap are in THEIR first season!

[Hambone]

I completely understand the young receivers having a bit of a learning curve. However I was hoping our wonderful coordinator
would possibly use the short/mid pass game a bit more and allow them to build up their confidence instead of having to go for
big catches play in play out.

Another head scratcher for me

Funny thing is in the last couple of years fans have whined that they don't try to stretch defences and spend too much time on the short/mid pass game. Now the complaints are the opposite. Everybody last year hated the "execution" excuse but last night lack of same was exactly what we saw. Drops of catchable balls killed them. Slight underthrows or balls not given enough air allowing defenders to close and break up plays hurt. On many of those long incompletions they had the matchup they wanted. Receivers had the separation gap. Lulay made correct decisions in delivering the ball but failure to execute either by the receiver or QB neutered several potentially big plays.

We're seeing a young QB trying to develop chemistry with younger inexperienced receivers early in a season coming off the always far too brief CFL training camp and exhibition season. The month long NFL TC with 4 exhibition games gives teams a lot of time to work the kinks out before the season begins. In the CFL it usually takes a few weeks into the regular season to accomplish the same. Thus we shouldn't be so surprised that in the second game of the season things are not purrfect as we like to expect. It's not nearly as important how these guys play in the first week or two of the regular season as it is how they perform going down the stretch after Labour Day. The critical thing is how these youngsters react and adjust to and learn from mistakes and early season growing pains. Akeem Foster is looking like a stud. Gore struggled bigtime early in the game but got stronger as the game wore on. I'm not overly concerned about the drops and lack of execution this early in the campaign. I think these guys are going to get a whole lot better and could develop into as good a group of receivers as we've seen here in a long, long time.

[TheLionKing]

Alot have been written about the inexperience of our young receiving corp. A good coach would design a package that will enable the receivers to have success instead of just dropping back and throwing bombs all night. Vary your approach.

[notahomer]

...
"The running game" what does that mean? Seriously, isn't the point to put points on the scoreboard? Do rushing Td's count for 7 pts and not 6?
...

Other teams seem to make use of the 'running game'. Yes, the point is to put points on the scoreboard. Rushing TD's count for 6 but often we end up taking 3 (via field goal) because we don't have a balanced attack (IMO). No, I don't think balanced means 50/50. I enjoyed when Joe Smith and then Martel Mallet would POUND defences. Even a guy like Logan who could make tacklers miss. The past two years I've gotten to sit in the Lions home stadium while some teams (Bombers via Fred Reid) just run the ball down the Lions throats. So, I'd like to see a better running game from the Lions and not so much of a running game from our opponents. I often wonder why teams don't run more often on the Lions. Sometimes teams seem to have success and then go away from it. I know running works because other teams do it to the Lions, so why not do it also?

[joe kapp22]

I completely understand the young receivers having a bit of a learning curve. However I was hoping our wonderful coordinator
would possibly use the short/mid pass game a bit more and allow them to build up their confidence instead of having to go for
big catches play in play out.

Another head scratcher for me

Funny thing is in the last couple of years fans have whined that they don't try to stretch defences and spend too much time on the short/mid pass game. Now the complaints are the opposite. Everybody last year hated the "execution" excuse but last night lack of same was exactly what we saw. Drops of catchable balls killed them. Slight underthrows or balls not given enough air allowing defenders to close and break up plays hurt. On many of those long incompletions they had the matchup they wanted. Receivers had the separation gap. Lulay made correct decisions in delivering the ball but failure to execute either by the receiver or QB neutered several potentially big plays.

We're seeing a young QB trying to develop chemistry with younger inexperienced receivers early in a season coming off the always far too brief CFL training camp and exhibition season. The month long NFL TC with 4 exhibition games gives teams a lot of time to work the kinks out before the season begins. In the CFL it usually takes a few weeks into the regular season to accomplish the same. Thus we shouldn't be so surprised that in the second game of the season things are not purrfect as we like to expect. It's not nearly as important how these guys play in the first week or two of the regular season as it is how they perform going down the stretch after Labour Day. The critical thing is how these youngsters react and adjust to and learn from mistakes and early season growing pains. Akeem Foster is looking like a stud. Gore struggled bigtime early in the game but got stronger as the game wore on. I'm not overly concerned about the drops and lack of execution this early in the campaign. I think these guys are going to get a whole lot better and could develop into as good a group of receivers as we've seen here in a long, long time.

Spot on, which is what I don't understand, last yr the "throw the ball 4 yds short of the first down" that got hackles rising, this yr they are going deep and now they should be throwing short stuff?

Now bottom line is, we are 0-2, there have been serious flaws exposed in every Unit on the Team, excluding no one, how Wally B handles the accountability for this will determine our fate this season imho, Wally knows you just cannot have the poor effort on tackling, the poor ST coverage, the poor performance on the Oline in terms of blocking scheme in the run game, the drops in the Money Zone, the turnovers.

Objectively we have played tough vs the two best teams in the CFL, however GM Buono needs to talk to Coach Buono about some of the things that have not been getting done so far.

But to me, fans are getting exactly what they asked for, play younger Wr's, try to be more explosive on offence, trust Lulay, fix the Oline, not running the ball as much as "us" fans would like but the offence has been productive without doing so.

[B.C.FAN]

Funny thing is in the last couple of years fans have whined that they don't try to stretch defences and spend too much time on the short/mid pass game. Now the complaints are the opposite. Everybody last year hated the "execution" excuse but last night lack of same was exactly what we saw. Drops of catchable balls killed them. Slight underthrows or balls not given enough air allowing defenders to close and break up plays hurt. On many of those long incompletions they had the matchup they wanted. Receivers had the separation gap. Lulay made correct decisions in delivering the ball but failure to execute either by the receiver or QB neutered several potentially big plays.

We're seeing a young QB trying to develop chemistry with younger inexperienced receivers early in a season coming off the always far too brief CFL training camp and exhibition season. The month long NFL TC with 4 exhibition games gives teams a lot of time to work the kinks out before the season begins. In the CFL it usually takes a few weeks into the regular season to accomplish the same. Thus we shouldn't be so surprised that in the second game of the season things are not purrfect as we like to expect. It's not nearly as important how these guys play in the first week or two of the regular season as it is how they perform going down the stretch after Labour Day. The critical thing is how these youngsters react and adjust to and learn from mistakes and early season growing pains. Akeem Foster is looking like a stud. Gore struggled bigtime early in the game but got stronger as the game wore on. I'm not overly concerned about the drops and lack of execution this early in the campaign. I think these guys are going to get a whole lot better and could develop into as good a group of receivers as we've seen here in a long, long time.

Spot on, which is what I don't understand, last yr the "throw the ball 4 yds short of the first down" that got hackles rising, this yr they are going deep and now they should be throwing short stuff?

Now bottom line is, we are 0-2, there have been serious flaws exposed in every Unit on the Team, excluding no one, how Wally B handles the accountability for this will determine our fate this season imho, Wally knows you just cannot have the poor effort on tackling, the poor ST coverage, the poor performance on the Oline in terms of blocking scheme in the run game, the drops in the Money Zone, the turnovers.

Objectively we have played tough vs the two best teams in the CFL, however GM Buono needs to talk to Coach Buono about some of the things that have not been getting done so far.

But to me, fans are getting exactly what they asked for, play younger Wr's, try to be more explosive on offence, trust Lulay, fix the Oline, not running the ball as much as "us" fans would like but the offence has been productive without doing so.

x2

[swervynmerv]

Alot have been written about the inexperience of our young receiving corp. A good coach would design a package that will enable the receivers to have success instead of just dropping back and throwing bombs all night. Vary your approach.

Chap. Are you watching the Rider-Als game at all. You may want to take some notes on what the Riders do in the "red zone". Cates scores on a run from the 15 yard line on the first TD and has several runs to set up the second TD.

[Hambone]

Now bottom line is, we are 0-2, there have been serious flaws exposed in every Unit on the Team, excluding no one, how Wally B handles the accountability for this will determine our fate this season imho, Wally knows you just cannot have the poor effort on tackling, the poor ST coverage, the poor performance on the Oline in terms of blocking scheme in the run game, the drops in the Money Zone, the turnovers.

Objectively we have played tough vs the two best teams in the CFL, however GM Buono needs to talk to Coach Buono about some of the things that have not been getting done so far.

Exactly. Early season is not unlike the first quarter or half in a football game. Rarely does a team come you firing on all cylinders to start a game or season. You have a game plan. You try to execute that game plan. Things you think may work may not. It's a bit of a feeling out process as a team tries to build on the things that are working while making adjustments to things that aren't. A coaching staff has to show some form of patience too giving the players time to work through things. A playbook has literally hundreds of plays. Conceivably you could run each play once and still would have plays not tried after the first two games. Despite that you can't take an approach of tried it once, didn't work, throw it out. You do have to continue working on them. It can be a two way learning experience. The players have to learn to execute the plays and it takes time for the coaching staff to learn what their personnel can execute well and what they can't. You aren't going to do that in one or two games.

The one thing that does bug me about the running game or lack thereof is that most plays designed with the RB in mind seem to always be a delay type play in nature with the QB taking the snap out of the shot gun. Seems like by the time Robertson gets the ball the defence has already closed the gap the play is designed to use. However on the other hand we've seen some new wrinkles utilizing receivers and even an option play last night that while not exactly executed particularly well did get the desired result. So it's not like they are totally remaining stagnant.

[Toppy Vann]

I completely understand the young receivers having a bit of a learning curve. However I was hoping our wonderful coordinator
would possibly use the short/mid pass game a bit more and allow them to build up their confidence instead of having to go for
big catches play in play out.

Another head scratcher for me

Funny thing is in the last couple of years fans have whined that they don't try to stretch defences and spend too much time on the short/mid pass game. Now the complaints are the opposite. Everybody last year hated the "execution" excuse but last night lack of same was exactly what we saw. Drops of catchable balls killed them. Slight underthrows or balls not given enough air allowing defenders to close and break up plays hurt. On many of those long incompletions they had the matchup they wanted. Receivers had the separation gap. Lulay made correct decisions in delivering the ball but failure to execute either by the receiver or QB neutered several potentially big plays.

We're seeing a young QB trying to develop chemistry with younger inexperienced receivers early in a season coming off the always far too brief CFL training camp and exhibition season. The month long NFL TC with 4 exhibition games gives teams a lot of time to work the kinks out before the season begins. In the CFL it usually takes a few weeks into the regular season to accomplish the same. Thus we shouldn't be so surprised that in the second game of the season things are not purrfect as we like to expect. It's not nearly as important how these guys play in the first week or two of the regular season as it is how they perform going down the stretch after Labour Day. The critical thing is how these youngsters react and adjust to and learn from mistakes and early season growing pains. Akeem Foster is looking like a stud. Gore struggled bigtime early in the game but got stronger as the game wore on. I'm not overly concerned about the drops and lack of execution this early in the campaign. I think these guys are going to get a whole lot better and could develop into as good a group of receivers as we've seen here in a long, long time.

This view might make sense statistically but is out of touch with the fan base and the entire football nation including even non Lion fans. Look at the comments on boards and the Province. They all saying the same thing and not giving them a pass for the bombs away view. No Lion performance that results in a QB developing chemistry with bombs away for most of the first half and 39 yards is justified. The coaches didn't make any of the drops but they selected the talent and have left guys like KP sitting on the sidelines. If you know your receiving corps is not up to this then why not adjust in the game and not just gun it downfield for an entire half just to be different.
39 yards in the first half says this: More of the same won't give you a different result.

"B.C. abandoned the run again early, as Jamal Robertson and Andrew Harris had a combined minus-1 rushing yard total in the first half and the Lions had a pathetic 39 net yards offence for the half."

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Lions ... z1Reraxd7e