Breaking News... Printers cut!

[chewiesrevenge]

Ok, I was a little harsh - But fair. Matt says it better here: http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/matt_dunigan/?id=337368

Call a spade a spade.

[TheLionKing]

As for "the code" and Wally breaking it; it's his to break. He is the boss. He sets the rules.A lot of people here don't like that, West Coast Joe, Blitz, The Lion King at al, but like it or not it's his team to handle how he wants. If they do well so be it, if they don't he'll have to deal with the fallout.

It is our to team to cheer for and being a fan we always know what's best for the team. Don't we.

As a long time paying season ticket holder I have earn the right to complain. Fans are the ultimate boss. If fans don't care and don't buy tickets how long do you think Buono will have a job ?

[Lionheart]

pennw - Those are serious claims you're making. The team quit when Printers entered the game? They lost confidence? I seriously refute that. The team got bit in the ass because they thought they had won. I had thought they won, YOU had thought they won. All teams play different when they think they've got a game won.

The bummber provoked the Lions, they lost their cool, lost a lot of yards and gave the bumbers a some life and a hell ya attitude, combine that with actually putting in a QB who could throw the ball and that changed everything. It happens all the time however not usually with as much drama.

[truth-hurts]

The problem that the Lions have is that their current starting QB no matter who steps in will have comparable QB numbers to Lemon. In all honesty, the Argos maxed out that in the first half of the season, the wins are going to be fewer and farther between now. Football is a game that is driven by the QB, CFL football even moreso, so until you have a QB that can operate in the upper echelon of QB's in the league, your football team will struggle, regardless of ST or D.

So, I guess there are 6 other QBs that have to step up and strive to be in that "'upper echelon of QB's" you're talking about. Seems to me many other teams and their QBs are struggling this season and the only 2 QBs that are in sync are Calvillo and Burris. To single out Lulay is not fair and I have a feeling the team has faith in their current QB and will continue to persevere to make this season a winning one.

[Rammer]

The problem that the Lions have is that their current starting QB no matter who steps in will have comparable QB numbers to Lemon. In all honesty, the Argos maxed out that in the first half of the season, the wins are going to be fewer and farther between now. Football is a game that is driven by the QB, CFL football even moreso, so until you have a QB that can operate in the upper echelon of QB's in the league, your football team will struggle, regardless of ST or D.

So, I guess there are 6 other QBs that have to step up and strive to be in that "'upper echelon of QB's" you're talking about. Seems to me many other teams and their QBs are struggling this season and the only 2 QBs that are in sync are Calvillo and Burris. To single out Lulay is not fair and I have a feeling the team has faith in their current QB and will continue to persevere to make this season a winning one.

I am strictly going by QB ratings to get an averaged out perspective on QB's. Lulay is behind Printers and in the ball park with Lemon, who successfully averages under 200 yards per game.

[Blitz]

Blitz ,I agree you can build an offence and or defence on a teams strength and in most cases you should. I'm not as certain if it can be, or should be on a single player. Single player get hurt (Buck,Dave) and then what have you got? I also think you can have a great QB who can throw the ball a mile but you need that receiver who has blinding speed to really take advantage of it (Jarious).

If you are thinking about bringing in talent that could optimize a key players strength I would agree, but thats not really a case of a single player anymore. I based my answer on trying for example, to make a team that isn't well suited for the long bomb, but tries to play that game because the QB has great arm strength. Usually you end up with a beautifully thrown ball, bouncing 10 yards downfield from the nearest receiver, because they don't have the speed to run under it.

Good points Ziggy!! First of all, you have to have a quarterback who can make all the throws. However, a quarterback will have a particular strength in one area. Mostly I' looking at it from the perspective of a mobile, athletic quarterback vs a less mobike quarterback who has good accuracy. You would take the one who is the most talented overall and then adjust your scheme. Obviously you can't roll out every play nor can you sit in the pocket every play but you would emphasize one aspect more than the other, based upon who is playing the position. If you have a backup quarterback with a different style, you just call either more rollout or pocket passing plays. You need both in the arsenal anyway..just depends on how much you use them.

What I don't believe, is that you have an offence that is basically a pocket passing offence and force a quarterback who is mobile to stay in the pocket and not use his mobility. The second is also true...if you have a quarterback who is not mobie..its fruitless to roll him out a lot..but you still would move the pocket for him and use him on a surprise occasional rollout.

The CFL is a quarterback league. The wide field favors a quarterback who is mobile and who can be a double threat as a passer and runner or extend plays with his legs.

[truth-hurts]

Very good point truth-hurts . The team fell apart after Printers stepped onto the field . Did Printers have something to do with that ? Absolutely he did . That is the impact he now had on the team . No he did not make all those mistakes personally , but with what Angus Reid has revealed about the behind the scenes ( and I think he is a better source of behind scenes info than a certain know-it-all who is 'privy' to all behind the scenes stuff on this board ) it all makes much more sense of the collapse . Much of the team has no confidence in Printers anymore . When he started panicking once again , the team lost confidence . Because they had no leader .
Many here are slagging Angus Reid for telling the truth , as though he's betraying a former teammate . But really what he has said , needed to be said for the fans to understand the situation . I would think many of the players would have wanted their fans to know a bit about what was going on , and Reid just happened to be the spokesman . It was a very unusual situation and somewhat extreme thing that happened , and there needed to be some explaining in order to not lose the fans . Some here , because of personal bias , are having a hard time accepting the reality . The truth is Printers and the team had come unglued , he lost the team and according to some media reports , with some players he never had their respect in the first place . He had to be a leader and he wasn't able to do that .
Had Reid not said anything we would all be wondering what is going on . Keeping the fans in the dark about such a drastic move would not have been beneficial .I think some of those not liking Reid talking , just don't like the fact that he's killing their argument .
One thing the stats don't show , that some here are ignoring is the fact that Printers keeps panicking when the heat is on , Lulay doesn't . This is what makes Lulay a much better QB already who will improve with more game time . Printers was in steady decline . There was no way he was getting any better . There was no future with Printers , it was inevitable that he wasn't going to make the team in the long run , so why delay the inevitable ?

Appreciate the support, pennw. It's just so crazy that there are a few fans on here that fail to see that Casey's unprofessionalism, lack of leadership, and big ego were the reasons why the team struggled and why he got released. Yes, he had his 4 wins and great stats but soon after his 4th win his ego got so big he couldn't see past his nose! Like I've said before, a leopard never changes his spots and, even though Casey had a good start to the season, it was just a matter of time when his team would see the "real" Casey. So, somewhere between the fumbling in Hamilton and the last game in Winnipeg, there must have been some kind of light bulb moment where the team realized who they were dealing with and lost their confidence in him. I'm not saying that they would deliberately play bad or lose on purpose just to spite him but they just didn't look like they were motivated to win once he stepped on the field in Winnipeg. It was almost like the team and fans like myself just knew we were gonna lose now that Casey was playing.

I am shocked that there are a few fans on here that are that selfish to support Casey's antics and wanted the coaches and players to adjust their game plan to suit HIS style of play. You guys have the nerve to expect the team to do that to accommodate ONE player? Yah, right! Wally did the right thing getting rid of Casey. There are other QBs who would appreciate the opportunity to execute the plays the coaches draw up for them, even though their not all "suited" to their strengths.

Casey was NOT the scapegoat but rather the root of the problem. I say this because the problem started in the locker room. Then it branched out to his team mates and their relationships they had with him. Then it branched out to the field where, because over time they lacked respect for him and didn't look to him as a leader, there was no synergy, no discipline, no respect for the game and others, no focus, and no will to win. When Casey lost confidence in his team and in his ability to execute the "unsuited" plays that were asked of him, that is when the team and coaches lost their confidence in him...

[Rammer]

Appreciate the support, pennw. It's just so crazy that there are a few fans on here that fail to see that Casey's unprofessionalism, lack of leadership, and big ego were the reasons why the team struggled and why he got released. Yes, he had his 4 wins and great stats but soon after his 4th win his ego got so big he couldn't see past his nose! Like I've said before, a leopard never changes his spots and, even though Casey had a good start to the season, it was just a matter of time when his team would see the "real" Casey. So, somewhere between the fumbling in Hamilton and the last game in Winnipeg, there must have been some kind of light bulb moment where the team realized who they were dealing with and lost their confidence in him. I'm not saying that they would deliberately play bad or lose on purpose just to spite him but they just didn't look like they were motivated to win once he stepped on the field in Winnipeg. It was almost like the team and fans like myself just knew we were gonna lose now that Casey was playing.

I am shocked that there are a few fans on here that are that selfish to support Casey's antics and wanted the coaches and players to adjust their game plan to suit HIS style of play. You guys have the nerve to expect the team to do that to accommodate ONE player? Yah, right! Wally did the right thing getting rid of Casey. There are other QBs who would appreciate the opportunity to execute the plays the coaches draw up for them, even though their not all "suited" to their strengths.

Casey was NOT the scapegoat but rather the root of the problem. I say this because the problem started in the locker room. Then it branched out to his team mates and their relationships they had with him. Then it branched out to the field where, because over time they lacked respect for him and didn't look to him as a leader, there was no synergy, no discipline, no respect for the game and others, no focus, and no will to win. When Casey lost confidence in his team and in his ability to execute the "unsuited" plays that were asked of him, that is when the team and coaches lost their confidence in him...

Honestly you have to be a rather new Lions fan not to be able to see the 04 version of CP and his success. At the time it was more due to him improvising and that caused a rift between himself and Chapdelaine as he took over the OC position officially late in the 04 season. The CFL QB is responsible for more offence than any other position player by such a wide margin that it only makes sense to create your offence around the QB's style. If you aren't then go get a QB to that does fit your limited abilities as an OC. As far as egos and me attitude goes, put Geroy Simon in the same boat. It is part of the territory of being an elite athlete, just ask Doug Flutie.

In the end and I will give you this, CP wasn't going to work in BC, but that had more to do with the OC than any other single factor IMO. If Casey was a locker room problem, it developed as the losses mounted and his emotions built up to a boiling point not being able to contribute and when he finally got that opportunity back, he exploded when the Bombers downfall unfolded on his watch. If the Lions were winning, CP would be fine, it is when things do wrong that CP hasn't learned to deal with it. Did we have an idea that would be the case, yes, did we want to hope that he had matured, you bet ya, and Wally did bet on it.
I

[truth-hurts]

Honestly you have to be a rather new Lions fan not to be able to see the 04 version of CP and his success. At the time it was more due to him improvising and that caused a rift between himself and Chapdelaine as he took over the OC position officially late in the 04 season. The CFL QB is responsible for more offence than any other position player by such a wide margin that it only makes sense to create your offence around the QB's style. If you aren't then go get a QB to that does fit your limited abilities as an OC. As far as egos and me attitude goes, put Geroy Simon in the same boat. It is part of the territory of being an elite athlete, just ask Doug Flutie.

I guess you can say I'm a newer fan to the Lions (4yrs) but I am aware of Casey's successes in the 04 season. BUT I was just focusing on this season And as far as egos and attitudes go, don't ever put Geroy in the same boat as Casey. My gawd, Geroy is just a very confident and highly respected player. He's a motivator and is passionate about football and his team. Casey was just all about himself. For argument sake, let's just say Geroy did have an ego and attitude. Geroy sends out positive vibes with his whereas Casey's ego and attitude sent out negative ones. Isn't Casey's track record of bouncing from team to team evident of that? NO ONE LIKES HIM!!!! Geroy is still here and has been for years! Let's be honest...at the end of their football careers I would remember Geroy being more of an "elite athlete" more than I would Casey. But of course that's just my opinion!

[Lionheart]

Geroy has a very big ego. You're views are far removed from reality truth.. someone can remind us when Geroy got into Wally's face after a touchdown and thumped his chest during some turmoil.. I'm a bit sketchy on the details atm. But, nothing wrong with that I'd say.

To make some of your claims are just wrong, but you're not the only one. As for every player who may say Casey didn't have the looker room we could find more in the other camp that would give the opposite views. Out of 46 guys there's going to be many varied opinions.

[B.C.FAN]

As for every player who may say Casey didn't have the looker room we could find more in the other camp that would give the opposite views.

We've heard from one Casey supporter, O'Neil Wilson. Not many players have gone on record but everything else we've heard from media reports is that Casey was considered lazy and arrogant and wasn't respected by teammates in the locker-room.

[takeitorleaveit]

Being part of the team that contributes to winning the game will automatically garner some respect from other players. Team mates can and will put up with arrogance, moodiness, etc, if that player is still contributing to wins. It was more than any perceived laziness or arrogance that was Casey's problems with other team mates..........

..... although I hope that CP doesn't become the too convenient scapegoat.

[WestCoastJoe]

As for every player who may say Casey didn't have the looker room we could find more in the other camp that would give the opposite views.

We've heard from one Casey supporter, O'Neil Wilson. Not many players have gone on record but everything else we've heard from media reports is that Casey was considered lazy and arrogant and wasn't respected by teammates in the locker-room.

Any supporters Casey might have had in the locker room would be keeping their heads down right about now. The GM and Head Coach has cut Casey loose. Team spokesman (self-appointed?), Angus Reid, has called him out. Casey behaved poorly. Tough to go against that, when you yourself want to stay as part of the team.

I expect Casey did have his supporters, including Geroy.

Of course it is not a good situation when you have a divided locker room. Alternating, or switching QBs brings that about inevitably.

Casey bought his own ticket out of town, the apple, and the map, when he blew up at Wilson. He no doubt saw the writing on the wall. His time was done with the Lions. If he knew his cheques were guaranteed, as I'm sure he did, that would remove one big restaint on his acting out.

[Blitz]

As for every player who may say Casey didn't have the looker room we could find more in the other camp that would give the opposite views.

We've heard from one Casey supporter, O'Neil Wilson. Not many players have gone on record but everything else we've heard from media reports is that Casey was considered lazy and arrogant and wasn't respected by teammates in the locker-room.

Who said he was lazy, arrogant, and not respected by his teammates in the locker room? Only players I've read who have quoted are Angus Reid (who left the Winnipeg game with leg cramps and couldn't be relied upon in the overtime...and should have had a tongue cramp as well), a veteran who refused to provide his name, and Travis Lulay...who didn't disparage Casey at all.

Geroy said it was the 'business' but according to the Provicne his body language and facial expression indicated he wasn't happy. O'Neil Wilson called Casey a friend and spoke about how Casey had helped his son out with football tips. A long time fan in a wheelchair was quoted about how Casey always either smiled or came over to talk to her. What are the players who support him supposed to do...be quoted as saying he was great, just after Wally released him?

So who called him lazy B.C. fan? Who said he was arrogant? I may have missed them.

[B.C.FAN]

As for every player who may say Casey didn't have the looker room we could find more in the other camp that would give the opposite views.

We've heard from one Casey supporter, O'Neil Wilson. Not many players have gone on record but everything else we've heard from media reports is that Casey was considered lazy and arrogant and wasn't respected by teammates in the locker-room.

Who said he was lazy, arrogant, and not respected by his teammates in the locker room? Only players I've read who have quoted are Angus Reid (who left the Winnipeg game with leg cramps and couldn't be relied upon in the overtime...and should have had a tongue cramp as well), a veteran who refused to provide his name, and Travis Lulay...who didn't disparage Casey at all.

Geroy said it was the 'business' but according to the Provicne his body language and facial expression indicated he wasn't happy. O'Neil Wilson called Casey a friend and spoke about how Casey had helped his son out with football tips. A long time fan in a wheelchair was quoted about how Casey always either smiled or came over to talk to her. What are the players who support him supposed to do...be quoted as saying he was great, just after Wally released him?

So who called him lazy B.C. fan? Who said he was arrogant? I may have missed them.

As you note, few players have spoken on the record so we're left with second-hand impressions passed through the media.

Ed Willes in The Province:

Before we address the issue of the day, you should know the decision to release Casey Printers has the potential to cause a huge rift in the B.C. Lions' dressing room.

Yes, it's that serious, because when you talk to Lions players it seems they are divided into two camps — those who think Printers should have been released immediately after Monday's shocking loss to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and those who think he should have been released a month ago.

"I was lucky enough to play with Dave Dickenson here and I'd never dream of something like that happening with him," said Leos centre Angus Reid. "He was our leader. Leaders shoulder blame. Leaders shoulder problems. Leaders protect everyone else around them.

"[Public spats] happen to people but it should never happen to your top guy and when it does you've got to go, 'We can't have this guy as our top guy anymore.'"

Evidently that was not a minority opinion on the issue of Printers.

One Lion veteran was asked when the quarterback had lost the locker-room.

"He never had it in the first place," was the terse reply.

Link

Matt Dunigan of TSN:

You can talk about it all you want. You can try and say all the right metaphors and preach the obvious, but you can't jam a square peg into a round hole. Once an I-me guy, always an I-me guy. If you don't put the time in at the quarterback position you will be exposed on the field of play. The lack of preparation and respect for the game will come back to haunt you sooner than later, and your true identity will be revealed to those who matter the most - your teammates.

Link

Gordon McIntyre in The Province:

No more Case of Pouting, er Casey Printers, looking over his shoulder, let alone berating innocent teammates on national TV.

It's like Wally Buono took the advice that a few of his veterans expressed off the record since the team started the season 1-6: The Lions aren't going to lose any more games with Lulay at the helm than they were losing with Printers, so give Lulay the ball and tell him it's his team.

Truth be told, Printers never had the room, the respect of a significant number of veteran teammates, since training camp

Link

We can choose to believe what we want, but these commentators have access to the players, and pass on their impressions. Was the locker-room divided? Had most players turned against Casey? We don't know all the details. Maybe we should just move on. The Casey magic of 2004 is long gone. It's not coming back.