TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coach?

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WestCoastJoe
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TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coach?

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=331331

Paul Hoogkamp, TSN ... Some excerpts ...

The question is being asked.
Three years ago, the B.C. Lions finished first in the West with a record of 14-3-1. Two years ago, they fell to third place with 11 wins and 7 losses. Last year, the Lions finished last in the West with an 8-10 mark, the worst record since Wally Buono arrived in Vancouver seven years ago.
Downhill spiral.
''Wally is the general manager and head coach,'' Braley told The Canadian Press last week. ''He's going to stay in the position and he has my complete backing and trust.''

Braley expresses support. His decision is the only one that determines Buono's status. However the individual decisions of the fans are the ultimate arbiters. They pay the freight. They determine the bottom line in the business.
In a poll on TSN.ca, fans were almost split between having Buono fired as head coach and trusting him to turn things around.
For his part, Buono thinks the problem is on the field, not on the sideline.

''There is no need to make changes in the coaching staff. There is nothing wrong with what we are doing,'' Buono said this past week. ''What's wrong with what we are doing is the player's inability to execute what we are doing.''
Ah yes. It is the players' fault. If they would just execute better. They have done it in the past. But not this year. Perhaps it is like the frog in the pot. The water slowly heats. You don't notice the change. Damage is gradual, until it is too late. You are cooked.
So how much of the blame should go toward the head coach? CFL on TSN analyst Milt Stegall thinks Buono deserves some heat because he holds down the two most important football positions in the organization.

''I don't think he's in trouble but he should be,'' said Stegall on TSN.ca's CFL Roundtable. ''Each year since 2008, they've regressed and what happens next year if they win five or six games? He's the GM, he's the head coach, he makes all the decisions so everything is on him. He should be in some type of trouble.''
Stegall deserves some credence.
CFL on TSN analyst Matt Dunigan agrees with Stegall but wonders who could possibly fill Buono's shoes. Remember, it's always tough to follow a legend and Buono is certainly that.

''What's the alternative? Are you going to find somebody better than Wally Buono?'' said Dunigan. ''Maybe he loses one of his titles and they bring in another head coach. But where do you beat 236 wins?''
Dunigan deserves some credence.
............

My opinion? The win/loss record is the simplest way to make a judgment. We'll see by the end of the year, or sooner, if Buono can turn it around.

One thing, though ... Does anyone think Wally can ever get his team back to winning 13 or 14 games a year? Against Hufnagel, Trestman and Miller, who look like they have their franchises on solid ground for years to come?
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WestCoastJoe
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=331331

Some fan responses on TSN ...
Cieps
1 hour ago
Ok so he is the coach with the most wins. So what, that is a past title and he got all the congrats warranted when he did it, but lets move on. He has a team fighting for the basement and doesnt think coaching is the problem. If the players cant play his schemes then adjust your schemes to match what the players can do.
Reuben_Kincaid
2 hours ago
Wally is probably at least partially right about players not executing the instructions, but dumping all the blame on the players is kind of typical of his arrogance. He won't admit that he's re-building somewhat over the past few years; how else do you explain the sudden dumping or benching of veterans like Floyd and Clermont? And while it might be true that the 'instructions' have been OK, are the players being properly supported and motivated? Although good in the past, the abilities of both Stubler and Chapdelaine have come into question in recent years. Wall-E does have a few things to answer for.
GO RIDERS DSH
2 hours ago
Boring...yawn.... balancing my chequebook!!!
Ha ha. Boooo ... Riders' fan. Just because you guys have had it good since 2007.
cutterjohn
3 hours ago
Could be time to go. If Wally was just the head coach, he 'might' be given some slack as the choice of talent would not necessarily have been his. However, he is the GM as well which puts a large part of this issue on his shoulders.
veni vedi vici
3 hours ago
He isn't beyond reproach because of his great record. Don Matthews knows this all to well and there comes a time in everyone's career when its' time to call it quits. Time to go upstairs Wally and put a fresh face down on the sidelines to motivate the troops.
xwarped
3 hours ago
Come on…seriously!?!?!?! He had a rough start last year, but made it an interesting race in the end. He might have a bad year this year…and? He is the winningest coach of all time…he AT MINIMUM deserves to see the end of the year, and I would say he deserves a crack next year as well.
4evercfl
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

I agree with Dunnigan..there is no current (quality) replacement out there. He has brought in talented players, that do so well, they bounce to the NFL. Getting rid of Shivers is not the answer, as he has a proven ability of finding diamonds in the ruff.
Having said that, I do think that the "O" line coach (Dorazio sp?) and Chapdelaine have got to go. Their time has come. If Walley has a weakness it is his loyalty to his staff. Not the players, as he has let go veterens that are still playing in the CFL, and doing well. (i.e.: Otil Floyd, Ryan Thelwal ,Barrin Simpson, etc..(just look at the Ticats' roster) )

As a footnote: I think there are too many sports writers, with nothing better to do. Also, although they have the same record, I don't think that the Lions should be compared to the Esks.
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Toppy Vann
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

4evercfl wrote:I agree with Dunnigan..there is no current (quality) replacement out there. He has brought in talented players, that do so well, they bounce to the NFL. Getting rid of Shivers is not the answer, as he has a proven ability of finding diamonds in the ruff.
Having said that, I do think that the "O" line coach (Dorazio sp?) and Chapdelaine have got to go. Their time has come. If Walley has a weakness it is his loyalty to his staff. Not the players, as he has let go veterens that are still playing in the CFL, and doing well. (i.e.: Otil Floyd, Ryan Thelwal ,Barrin Simpson, etc..(just look at the Ticats' roster) )

As a footnote: I think there are too many sports writers, with nothing better to do. Also, although they have the same record, I don't think that the Lions should be compared to the Esks.
Wally should have been asked by his boss and owner if he has a logical successor in his organization. His answer a few years ago might be yes - Benevides and Chapdelaine. Asked each year about their progress against the yardstick used to evaluate HC's and leaders other than hard work and Benevides allegedly deciding on his own to hire Stubler these two coordinators have not shown much to suggest they are HC material. If Wally were still telling his boss, Mr. Braley that these are still the replacements for him all I can say is wow.

Dunigan is right. No one is out there and certainly not now where you have play out the second half of the schedule.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

I think Wally has earned the respect and patience of all involved but he has to move forward in a way that shows the fans and media that the problems are being addressed effectively. Wally should relinquish the HC position and move upstairs to focus solely on the GM duties. I think he has grown too old to do both jobs well. (I applaud his work ethic though.)

I would like to see Wally solely as GM, Benevides as your interim HC having to earn the permanent position by displaying the ability to do the job effectively during the remainder of the 2010 season. I would like to see a new OC brought in to replace Chapdelaine & to begin the process of getting this offence out of the toilet and living up to the talent that the team has on the field. Danny Maciocia would be a good OC fit moving forward from this season into the 2011 season. (Also a HC candidate that is in place for down the road too.) A new vision on offence. A teacher for young players to find a direction that sees progress made. Especially at the QB position. An O-line that can be changed and improved, too, so that all the QB's are developing rather than recovering from too many hits to the head and body. Also one type of QB for one type of an offence would mean a smoother transition between your 1st, 2nd and 3rd stringers in training camp, in the regular season games and in rolling with the punches as the injuries unfold. Ricky Ray and Travis Lulay could be a good one/two punch short term with similar attributes. The offensive scheme, plays and recruiting philosophy needs to match up well with the players that are brought in to make the offence succeed. Also I would give Rich Stubler the DC position for the remainder of 2010. Wally could recruit based on the offensive philosophy being understood and more likely to succeed with the players that are here now and the players that will be here in one, two or three years time.

The stagnant rate of changes being made on the coaching side of the team tells me the team will be sold after this season is over by Braley. (Maybe Aquilini buys the team?) It would not make sense to fire coaches and add to the payroll by hiring new ones if the team was up for sale soon and laying low in a smaller stadium that can draw fans all by itself for one season. I think the team should move forward on the field regardless of the owners' identity over the next two seasons. The fans need hope heading into the much bigger confines of revamped BC Place. (I would have preferred to see a 40,000 seat Empire Stadium built for a fraction of the cost too.) But there's no turning back now. (Liberal Party Of BC agony for all.) Wally can't turn back either. He can only move forward and he needs to read this and understand this in order to turn this thing around sooner rather than later. Much tougher for a door mat to be sold than a team that's climbing the ranks again.

Dominic In Vancouver :cr:
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Shi Zi Mi
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

tigerrr22 wrote:I think Wally has earned the respect and patience of all involved but he has to move forward in a way that shows the fans and media that the problems are being addressed effectively. Wally should relinquish the HC position and move upstairs to focus solely on the GM duties. I think he has grown too old to do both jobs well. (I applaud his work ethic though.)

I would like to see Wally solely as GM, Benevides as your interim HC having to earn the permanent position by displaying the ability to do the job effectively during the remainder of the 2010 season. I would like to see a new OC brought in to replace Chapdelaine & to begin the process of getting this offence out of the toilet and living up to the talent that the team has on the field. Danny Maciocia would be a good OC fit moving forward from this season into the 2011 season. (Also a HC candidate that is in place for down the road too.) A new vision on offence. A teacher for young players to find a direction that sees progress made. Especially at the QB position. An O-line that can be changed and improved, too, so that all the QB's are developing rather than recovering from too many hits to the head and body. Also one type of QB for one type of an offence would mean a smoother transition between your 1st, 2nd and 3rd stringers in training camp, in the regular season games and in rolling with the punches as the injuries unfold. Ricky Ray and Travis Lulay could be a good one/two punch short term with similar attributes. The offensive scheme, plays and recruiting philosophy needs to match up well with the players that are brought in to make the offence succeed. Also I would give Rich Stubler the DC position for the remainder of 2010. Wally could recruit based on the offensive philosophy being understood and more likely to succeed with the players that are here now and the players that will be here in one, two or three years time.

The stagnant rate of changes being made on the coaching side of the team tells me the team will be sold after this season is over by Braley. (Maybe Aquilini buys the team?) It would not make sense to fire coaches and add to the payroll by hiring new ones if the team was up for sale soon and laying low in a smaller stadium that can draw fans all by itself for one season. I think the team should move forward on the field regardless of the owners' identity over the next two seasons. The fans need hope heading into the much bigger confines of revamped BC Place. (I would have preferred to see a 40,000 seat Empire Stadium built for a fraction of the cost too.) But there's no turning back now. (Liberal Party Of BC agony for all.) Wally can't turn back either. He can only move forward and he needs to read this and understand this in order to turn this thing around sooner rather than later. Much tougher for a door mat to be sold than a team that's climbing the ranks again.

Dominic In Vancouver :cr:
So.....how exactly are you related to Maciocia?.........
Lloyd
Blitz
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

I don't believe Wally should step down as HC right now. Of course he should reflect at the end of the season and likely will. I don't necessarily believe we'll be better off with a new HC.

However, if Wally continues to keep the Chapdelaine/Dorazio offensive coaching combo next season then I would rather that he does step down. Changes need to be made.

When you look at the difference Dave Ritchie made to our defense, when he was hired or the difference that Stubler has made this season it shows how bringing in someone from outside the organization,with a different mindset, creates new concepts and makes us better.

What we have right now is a classic 'group think' scenario on offence, which prevents new ideas from being integrated into the scheme. It's stale, as Beamish said, and it needs some fresh thinking. Chapdelaine should have been making those changes as part of a coaching philosophy but hasn't. If he can't or won't then we need to bring someone from outside to create those new concepts.

Its adapt or lose in football. The Green Bay ppwer sweep would not make Lombardi a winner if he was coaching today.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Toppy Vann
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

Agree with Blitz here. The last thing the Lions need to do now is change HCs. That stuff might work for a hockey team in an 80 plus game schedule over even a soccer team mid season in a 20 plus game schedule but for those of us who have seen this movie with the Lions and CFL before - it ends badly.

There is lots wrong here but firing the HC or him voluntarily falling on his rubber sword for Benevides or whoever else one can think of makes no sense at all. I liked the extra pairs of eyes concept... a consultant to help tweak and game plan but that seems unlikely as for them it would smack of no confidence in the Chapper- and Wally would sooner keep losing then admit he has coaching issues. Just one time it'd be nice if he said we need to do a better job of coaching this team (maybe he said it unless something is changed the players and fans won't believe it).

The mess here did not happen overnight. This started a few years back and Wally's increasingly strange ways of dumping players. Wally is going to defend himself and the coaching staff for the rest of this season. Off season he might admit he needs to change something- belatedly agreeing with the fan base.

Don Matthews had no impact on the Argos when he arrived as the season played itself out. Why would any lesser coach than he do better with this Lions team?

This a vastly weaker coaching staff than a few years ago despite the addition of Stubler who seems to have had a very positive impact on their defense. The core is hardly as strong either. Player disappearances from the core of their team has hurt them. Some SMS issues others just Wally's way.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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WestCoastJoe
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

I agree with Blitz and Toppy.

No benefit in changing now, in mid-stream.

We're gonna have to tough it out.

Plus there is just that slight chance, that elusive chance, that the survivor who is Wally Buono will find a way to right this ship, and make it respectable by season's end. And he might even do it his way. However, I would have to say that the odds are stacked very, very heavily against it.

As I have said any number of times, I think Marc Trestman, John Hufnagel and Kent Austin/Ken Miller have raised the bar on coaching in the CFL. And Wally and his staff have not made the necessary adjustments.
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Shi Zi Mi
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

I agree with Blitz, Toppy and WCJ.....changing HC mid season is too drastic.........BUT....replacing Chapdelaine with Kreuk and maintaining the current playbook/terminology is not nearly as invasive......and IMHO, a more imaginative play caller would be just the spark to ignite this Lions team.
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Re: TSN The Rouge: Should Buono step down as Lions' head coa

I agree with Blitz, Toppy Van, Westcoast Joe, and Shi Zi Mi

I had to follow that up, but there really is not much to add.
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