O-Line issues

[Bobbyp]

I agree Buck was running for his life last night. The qb usually get way too much credit if hes good or bad.

[Hawkballer 14]

Because I see it replayed in my head every day of my life since then, that's why. So give it a rest, why don't YOU?

Really? Serious? You actually woke up this morning gritting your teeth? Or over-reacted when your toast got burnt. Or cursing at the dog because he chewed on your slippers? I'm not the one who constantly brings up a dropped pass from 26 years ago. TEAM game, football is.

There's complaining/being bummed out about a loss, which is fine. But some are all "next week is the battle of the worst teams in football" and "cut X because he struggled in week one". Chill out, it's one game.

[Lions4ever]

Because I see it replayed in my head every day of my life since then, that's why. So give it a rest, why don't YOU?

Really? Serious? You actually woke up this morning gritting your teeth? Or over-reacted when your toast got burnt. Or cursing at the dog because he chewed on your slippers? I'm not the one who constantly brings up a dropped pass from 26 years ago. TEAM game, football is.

There's complaining/being bummed out about a loss, which is fine. But some are all "next week is the battle of the worst teams in football" and "cut X because he struggled in week one". Chill out, it's one game.

Come to think of it, that drop has eaten away at my subconscience for decades too. Now I have it replaying in my head over and over.

Curse you Solar Max!

[OV - 54:40]

An O-line that hasn't played together much takes time to gel - maybe they will; they can also be hurt by lack of a serious attempt at a run game - the D knows it can just tee off on pass rush.

Poor performance might mean some changes for next game - giving Sorenson some reps at OT to see if he can improve over Stith might be an idea, but probably not in Wally's ways if he wants to pencil in the position for imports only. Going to way more run game and letting the O-Line be aggressive might be an idea too (try to power-up with some smash-mouth straight ahead runs from Lumballa or Bwenge for example), but again, not if pre-determined, limited offensive thinking rules.

[B.C.FAN]

It was obvious the Lions considered the right side of the O-line their strength in this game, no matter where they were on the field or how the defence was lined up. I think roughly 8 of the 10 carries by the running backs went to the right side behind Jimenez and Haji-Rasouli. Those carries were also the ones that produced the biggest gains. Mallett averaged 10.5 yards per carry and Smart averaged 7.5 yards. They just didn't get enough touches.

[LionSuperFan]

Some blame has to go to the offensive scheme we are no longer bringing the recievers inside to block they run routes everytime

[Hambone]

Just to get a sense of how confusing things were I just re-watched the first couple of series in TSN VOD. On Pierce's first fumble the Riders had 1 DL on Stith, nobody on Valli and 4 guys pressuring the other 3 OL from Reid's right shoulder on over. Valli with nobody to block started to cut back to help Angus out and DB Eddie Davis shot through the gap on a delayed blitz. The first sack came on the next series. The Riders set up similarly with 4 rushing the right side, one pressuring Stith and nobody coming at Valli. Dean having been burnt on the DB blitz a few plays earlier delayed just a split second enough to be sure nobody was going to shoot that gap again. Nobody was coming but by then it was too late as Mullinder had found a gap on the overloaded right side and dumped Buck. These things of course happened in the first couple of series before there was any chance to make adjustments but are indications of the types of weird things Etch was throwing at them. Rather ingenious in some ways; stack most of your DL on one side of the line and confuse Valli by giving him no DL to block. And he can't just immediately pull to cut across and support because no doubt he's expecting one of the Rider DL to slide back over and come through his gap if he does.

[B.C.FAN]

Just to get a sense of how confusing things were I just re-watched the first couple of series in TSN VOD. On Pierce's first fumble the Riders had 1 DL on Stith, nobody on Valli and 4 guys pressuring the other 3 OL from Reid's right shoulder on over. Valli with nobody to block started to cut back to help Angus out and DB Eddie Davis shot through the gap on a delayed blitz. The first sack came on the next series. The Riders set up similarly with 4 rushing the right side, one pressuring Stith and nobody coming at Valli. Dean having been burnt on the DB blitz a few plays earlier delayed just a split second enough to be sure nobody was going to shoot that gap again. Nobody was coming but by then it was too late as Mullinder had found a gap on the overloaded right side and dumped Buck. These things of course happened in the first couple of series before there was any chance to make adjustments but are indications of the types of weird things Etch was throwing at them. Rather ingenious in some ways; stack most of your DL on one side of the line and confuse Valli by giving him no DL to block. And he can't just immediately pull to cut across and support because no doubt he's expecting one of the Rider DL to slide back over and come through his gap if he does.

I can understand the O-line being somewhat confused and overwhelmed, and certainly outnumbered. That's what the defence was trying to do. I have more touble understanding why the running backs couldn't count to four and figure out when there were more rushers than blockers on one side of the line. According to Mike Beamish, Wally Buono spread the blame around to the position groups.

“The protection as a whole, whether it be the line or the running backs, has to be a lot better than that,” head coach Wally Buono said in his post-mortem. “But Buck has to help the protection by getting rid of the ball when he needs to. It’s a combination of things. You’ve got to give the defence credit. We’ve got to do a better job. And the quarterback can’t stand in there too long.”

Link

[Hawkballer 14]

Just to get a sense of how confusing things were I just re-watched the first couple of series in TSN VOD. On Pierce's first fumble the Riders had 1 DL on Stith, nobody on Valli and 4 guys pressuring the other 3 OL from Reid's right shoulder on over. Valli with nobody to block started to cut back to help Angus out and DB Eddie Davis shot through the gap on a delayed blitz. The first sack came on the next series. The Riders set up similarly with 4 rushing the right side, one pressuring Stith and nobody coming at Valli. Dean having been burnt on the DB blitz a few plays earlier delayed just a split second enough to be sure nobody was going to shoot that gap again. Nobody was coming but by then it was too late as Mullinder had found a gap on the overloaded right side and dumped Buck. These things of course happened in the first couple of series before there was any chance to make adjustments but are indications of the types of weird things Etch was throwing at them. Rather ingenious in some ways; stack most of your DL on one side of the line and confuse Valli by giving him no DL to block. And he can't just immediately pull to cut across and support because no doubt he's expecting one of the Rider DL to slide back over and come through his gap if he does.

So what Hambone is essentially saying, is that the Lions O-Line simply a) need some more game experience to gel as a unit and b) were up against an innovative Defensive Co-Ordinator in week one.

Hamilton next week. Learn from the Saskatchewan game and move on.

[Toppy Vann]

An O line takes time to gel. It will not happen in 1 game or even 2 and maybe not 3. There were just too many changes this year.

While some may criticize Rob Murphy and forget that Bates has moved on, these two guys were part of one of the best O lines ever to play for BC ever or for that matter in the CFL. Murphy and Jiminez - as others noted here as did the players and coaches - changed the culture of the O line and were game breakers at times with their play and ability to dictate to opponents. Two left side guys are gone. It will take time.

The criticism of the new running backs and blocking can be a bit forgiven due to newness but Lumbala has far fewer excuses as he was here last year and Lyle Green has far fewer lapses in his play than Lumbala has had since he got here and he is clearly not the go to FB any longer.

I don't recall us focusing on missed blocks when Joe Smith was here. It is all that other off field stuff that has coloured people's thinking about Joe.

I also don't recall Joe missing short yard carries when he was here.

Give these guys time to gel together and they should be fine but Bates and Murphy are not easy to replace as they worked so well with those other guys.

If they had more Kruck-Dorazio run schemes that game might have gone a different direction but JC don't like them runs. He used the screen pass .. what... err once??? Nuts.

[Hawkballer 14]

I have more touble understanding why the running backs couldn't count to four and figure out when there were more rushers than blockers on one side of the line.

It's really not that black and white as deriding the backs for being "unable to count to four".

Was it play action? Were they assigned a pass route? Did they go to the undermanned side, only for the delayed blitz to come from the other direction? Was it even their man that sacked Buck? Was there merely more than six people rushing the QB?

[Hambone]

I can understand the O-line being somewhat confused and overwhelmed, and certainly outnumbered. That's what the defence was trying to do. I have more touble understanding why the running backs couldn't count to four and figure out when there were more rushers than blockers on one side of the line. According to Mike Beamish, Wally Buono spread the blame around to the position groups.

On the fumble play it was 2nd and 10 and a passing situation. Ian Smart was the lone back and moved over to Buck's right side towards the overload. On the snap he released and slipped through a gap in that overload. Of the 4 in the overload only Schultz and Adams actually rushed engaging Reid and Sherko. Chick hung back and Renaud Williams peeled back into coverage in the middle.

On the sack play it was again a passing situation on 2nd and 8. Rookie Martell Mallett in his first offensive series was the lone RB in the formation. Where Smart lined up to Buck's right on the other play Mallett lined up to the left. Where Smart released Mallett hung back perhaps looking to pick up somebody blitzing through as Davis had done. Nobody came from that side other than Baggs on Stith. On the right side where only 2 had rushed on the earlier play all 4 game this time and Kornegay had been lined up behind the 4 looking like he might also be coming but he peeled back into coverage on the snap.

Watching these plays the Phil Collins tune "Land of Confusion" keeps ringing in my ears.

[Ballistic Bob]

After a NFL game ( Tampa Bay Buccaneers) a reporter asked the coach, John McKay, "what do you think about the execution of your offence" Said the coach. " Thats a good idea" or something to that effect. BB

[Hambone]

After a NFL game ( Tampa Bay Buccaneers) a reporter asked the coach, John McKay, "what do you think about the execution of your offence" Said the coach. " Thats a good idea" or something to that effect. BB

Snicker. Pierce's night also reminded me of a legendary Gump Worsley quote years ago when he was with the Rangers who were perennial NHL doormats then.
A scribe quizzed: "Gump! Which team gives you the most problems?"
Gump: "The Rangers".