Lions at Argos Oct. 30, 2021

[Reg18]

We,itstirsiethrsr that maker atecateui assagia moreantergae ostecausenof eventhugh oneesdbicked it was the ickets fautad teteowetecear issues. And what was the call onte yeooint convey dcrewup it looked like teilyesd throwi GB taesytoavid a sack mayesome confusion?

[SammyGreene]

I sure hope the Lions make developing a national kicker again a priority.
Hamilton is the only other club that doesn’t utilize a national for FG or punting but do burn one of their international spots with Joel Whitford. I guess our plan was to go duo international (Yamasaki/Ford) before it was quickly abandoned.
But since Paul McCallum’s retirement in 2014 it’s been all Americans:
Richie Leone (2015-16), Ty Long (2017-18), Sergio Castillo (2019), Stefan Flintoft/Jimmy Camacho (2021).

Leone was eractic on FGs but league’s best punter. They lucked out big time on Long but he was too good to stick long term. Castillo was not a great punter. But at least they handled all the kicking.
That’s why Camacho’s struggles are so enraging. That’s all he is asked to do and he has cost them 2 games. Thrown in Yamasaki and it’s 3.

But our special teams coverage and overall depth is sure the hell not good enough to burn 2 American game day roster spots on kickers. Maybe the success they had, especially with finding Long, has resulted in some complacency in developing a national kicker. But 7 other teams have proven its not that difficult and once you develop one it’s very likely a long term solution

[MacNews]

Well the kicker is essentially part of tbe offense. 1 miss okay but 3? This game shouldn't have even gotten to overtime despite a marginal offense so yes the kicker screwed the pooch on this and unfortunately it isn't the first time. Kicking has cost us games and basically killed thei season.

That's why I questioned sending Castillo to Winnipeg.

[B.C.FAN]

JC Abbott weighs in with his thoughts on the game. I can’t argue with any of his takes other than to correct one stat. Jimmy Camacho started the season by making his first 10 field goals, not first 14. Since then he’s gone 4 of 10, with game-changing misses against Saskatchewan and Toronto. If he makes 2 of those, the Lions could be 6-5 and tied with Saskatchewan for second place.

https://3downnation.com/2021/10/31/vict ... ight-loss/

[Sir Purrcival]

Being a kicker isn't the easiest of positions. They get long periods of being idle followed by brief moments of high pressure. The get a lot of ribbing about things like "do you have to wash your uniform between games" sort of thing. I don't want to make it out as the easiest thing the world to do but and it is a big but, when they are called upon, there is often a lot riding on how they perform and a failure to perform can have massive ramifications. When you think through history about how impactful kickers are on outcomes, you quickly realize that games, seasons and even championships can ride on the leg of your kicker. While I have issue with how the kickers have performed this season (in many ways they are as responsible for the dismal outcome as some of the other suspects), I have even greater issue with how this team managed to go into a season without having such a crucial spot nailed down. Unforgivable when you have had basically 2 years to get your ducks somewhat lined up. If I were going to fire coaches based on this teams performance, this would be among my top 3 pieces of evidence to decide to that they had failed to adequately do their job.

[David]

This is not a bad team. The offence and defence played well enough to win. B.C. had an advantage in yardage and scored more touchdowns. Special teams were the difference. The Argos hit 5 of 5 field goal attempts. The Lions were 0 of 3.

I agree that we a least have the makings of a very good football team. Core guys like Whitehead, Burnham, Cottoy, Reilly, Lokombo, Peters, Lee, and Sayles. CFL newcomers like Williams, Rourke, Bonner, Gwatcham, Hardin, Edwards-Cooper and Joyner. But there are some very necessary changes to be put in place for the off-season.

* New OC. Someone more inventive, with a balanced approach, who understands our limitations and works around them. Who won't call a hand-off to David Mackie with 3:25 left. We need to do a much better job of controlling the clock.

* A faster, shiftier punt and kick returner (he may already be on the PR in Quadree Henderson, whom we signed 3 weeks ago). We're getting killed in the return yards differential. Perhaps a new Special Team Coordinator is necessary here as we seem to do a very poor job of limiting punt returns to 5 yards or fewer or kick returns to 20 yards or fewer.

* Replace Banks and Tavai on DT and DE respectively. Lack of consistent pressure up front ALL SEASON has put an unnecessary burden on our defensive secondary. I would like to retain Bonner and Gwatcham. We need a run stuffer at nose tackle and sack specialist at DE.

* Replace Figueroa and Chungh at LT and RG respectively. Love Fig, but father time has caught up. Big time. Looking forward to seeing what Jarrell Broxton brings next year, as he looked very good in his only outing at LT before tearing his bicep.

* New kicker. Camacho was sailing along. Then JJ Adams wrote a feature about him in The Province on October 14 and, since then, we've witnessed him slice more kicks than a golf ball at a driving range.

* James Butler is a good utility running back. He should be retained. However, while he can do a number of things well (block, catch) I don't think should be the main feature back. The league is trending toward bigger, more punishing backs. That should be the criteria on which we focus our off-season recruiting efforts (a Stanback-type back).

* I want Reilly back as Rourke needs another season of experience. But I am concerned with his accuracy. Perhaps a new OC and better protection can help him. He may be putting too much pressure on himself to get us out of this 0-5 funk and not seeing the field. Less "swinging for the fences" and more completions in the 10-15 yard range would help immensely.


DH

[OV - 54:40]

I sure hope the Lions make developing a national kicker again a priority.
Hamilton is the only other club that doesn’t utilize a national for FG or punting but do burn one of their international spots with Joel Whitford. I guess our plan was to go duo international (Yamasaki/Ford) before it was quickly abandoned.
But since Paul McCallum’s retirement in 2014 it’s been all Americans:
Richie Leone (2015-16), Ty Long (2017-18), Sergio Castillo (2019), Stefan Flintoft/Jimmy Camacho (2021).

Leone was eractic on FGs but league’s best punter. They lucked out big time on Long but he was too good to stick long term. Castillo was not a great punter. But at least they handled all the kicking.
That’s why Camacho’s struggles are so enraging. That’s all he is asked to do and he has cost them 2 games. Thrown in Yamasaki and it’s 3.

But our special teams coverage and overall depth is sure the hell not good enough to burn 2 American game day roster spots on kickers. Maybe the success they had, especially with finding Long, has resulted in some complacency in developing a national kicker. But 7 other teams have proven its not that difficult and once you develop one it’s very likely a long term solution

The Lions could have drafted Marc Liegghio (with the Bombers who did draft him) as he did not go till the 5th round (39th overall) in the 2020 draft, He was an outstanding dual kicker in U Sports ball with deadly FG accuracy his final year; he has held down the Bombers punting job this season, but struggled a bit when they tried him as place-kicker (and got replaced by that stiff Mourtada) - maybe too much pressure for the young guy to do both jobs as a rookie pro. I believe he will eventually become their regular FG kicker as well (nice gift they got though in Castillo for another GC run this year)

Maybe some CFL teams need to grasp how important both kicking games are and have their scouts pay more attention to top Canadian kicking talent ? The top 2 most accurate place kickers in CFL history (Lewis Ward & Rene Parades) were both CFL undrafted. A whole lot of missing the boat there.

[KnowItAll]

We,itstirsiethrsr that maker atecateui assagia moreantergae ostecausenof eventhugh oneesdbicked it was the ickets fautad teteowetecear issues. And what was the call onte yeooint convey dcrewup it looked like teilyesd throwi GB taesytoavid a sack mayesome confusion?

you speaking english ???

[Rammer]

We,itstirsiethrsr that maker atecateui assagia moreantergae ostecausenof eventhugh oneesdbicked it was the ickets fautad teteowetecear issues. And what was the call onte yeooint convey dcrewup it looked like teilyesd throwi GB taesytoavid a sack mayesome confusion?

you speaking english ???

About as well as a Lions FG kicker kicks FG's.

[SammyGreene]

The Lions could have drafted Marc Liegghio (with the Bombers who did draft him) as he did not go till the 5th round (39th overall) in the 2020 draft, He was an outstanding dual kicker in U Sports ball with deadly FG accuracy his final year; he has held down the Bombers punting job this season, but struggled a bit when they tried him as place-kicker (and got replaced by that stiff Mourtada) - maybe too much pressure for the young guy to do both jobs as a rookie pro. I believe he will eventually become their regular FG kicker as well (nice gift they got though in Castillo for another GC run this year)

Maybe some CFL teams need to grasp how important both kicking games are and have their scouts pay more attention to top Canadian kicking talent ? The top 2 most accurate place kickers in CFL history (Lewis Ward & Rene Parades) were both CFL undrafted. A whole lot of missing the boat there.

They gave Quinn Van Gylswyk a cup of coffee in 2018 after he was terrific for UBC during its Vanier Cup run and was drafted by the Riders. That was Ty Long’s last season so Quinn was in really tough.

After Camacho’s disasterous game and horrible stretch I would be sigining national Gabriel Ferraro who was released by the Bombers Monday after they traded for Castillo. Went 7 of 9 for the Riders last time he kicked in 2019.
I know Lions are not in “next year” mode yet but given Camacho’s struggles they got nothing to lose and can replace his roster spot with an American defensive player for depth and kick coverage

[B.C.FAN]

Rick Campbell and Neil McEvoy confirmed Monday that the Lions are looking to bring in another kicker, possibly by Friday.
Kicking game 'has to improve' if B.C. Lions are going to challenge for a playoff spot

[Hambone]

Rick Campbell and Neil McEvoy confirmed Monday that the Lions are looking to bring in another kicker, possibly by Friday.
Kicking game 'has to improve' if B.C. Lions are going to challenge for a playoff spot

Too bad the Packers decided to keep Flintoft's old UCLA sidekick J.J. Molson on the PR after cutting him at the end of training camp. He's a Canadian as well.

[David]

* A faster, shiftier punt and kick returner (he may already be on the PR in Quadree Henderson, whom we signed 3 weeks ago). We're getting killed in the return yards differential. Perhaps a new Special Team Coordinator is necessary here as we seem to do a very poor job of limiting punt returns to 5 yards or fewer or kick returns to 20 yards or fewer.

Guess we're about to find out how good Quadree Henderson is on Friday. Moj/Giulio reporting that Chris Rainey has been placed on the injured list and Henderson has been activated for the Ti-Cats game. Jamel Lyles backs up at RB.

Also, Nathan Rourke returns to back up Reilly.


DH

[maxlion]

Guess we're about to find out how good Quadree Henderson is on Friday. Moj/Giulio reporting that Chris Rainey has been placed on the injured list and Henderson has been activated for the Ti-Cats game. Jamel Lyles backs up at RB.

Also, Nathan Rourke returns to back up Reilly.


DH

That is good news. Rainey has just looked slow this year. Likely the blocking hasn't helped, but we need a different look in the return game.

[Hambone]

The Lions could have drafted Marc Liegghio (with the Bombers who did draft him) as he did not go till the 5th round (39th overall) in the 2020 draft, He was an outstanding dual kicker in U Sports ball with deadly FG accuracy his final year; he has held down the Bombers punting job this season, but struggled a bit when they tried him as place-kicker (and got replaced by that stiff Mourtada) - maybe too much pressure for the young guy to do both jobs as a rookie pro. I believe he will eventually become their regular FG kicker as well (nice gift they got though in Castillo for another GC run this year)

They could have if they wanted to use the #23 pick they used to get Court Hammond or the #15 pick they used on Nathan Rourke because those were the last two picks they had before the Bombers took Liegghio at #39. At this moment all Liegghio is doing is punt and he's ranked 9th in the league at that. I guess if you figure that deserves a late 2nd/early 3rd pick as opposed to early 5th where he went then the Lions blew it taking Hammond.

They say the draft is a crap shoot. History has proven that there is no bigger crapshoot within that crapshoot than taking a kicker or punter. From 2007 thru 2021 there were 24 of them drafted. Rob Maver is the only one who managed to carve out a long career with his drafting team. He was drafted with the intent of handling all chores but he too was relegated to punting only fairly early in his career. Some others had to bounce around a few stops before finding themselves a home.

Montreal rookie David Cote drafted just this year is off to a good start. Could be the next one who might stick long term with his drafting team but needs to show a bit better consistency as he develops. IMO the jury is also out on Liegghio. He needs another couple years to prove himself. He has to get better at punting as he develops. Whether he gets another crack at placekicking remains to be seen. Where once upon a time it was gold to have an all-purpose kicker I don't think teams make that a priority these days. If Liegghio settles in as an effective and reliable punter the Bombers will likely leave it that way.

Kickers drafted by draft position 2007-2021:
1 - 10:
Warren Kean (2 - 2007)
Rob Maver (5 - 2010)
Brody McKnight (8 - 2011)
11 - 20:
Grant Shaw (11 - 2010)
Hugh O'Neill (11 - 2011)
John Mark (20 - 2014)
21 - 30:
Quinn Van Glyswyk (26 - 2016)
Chris Milo (30 - 2011)
31 - 40:
Jake Julien (31 - 2021)
Felix Menard-Briere (34 - 2017)
Henry Bekkering (35 - 2007)
Justin Palardy (36 - 2010)
Marc Liegghio (39 - 2020)
Tyler Crapigna (40 - 2014)
41 - 50:
Dante Brown (41 - 2020)
Nick Boyd (43 - 2014)
David Cote (45 - 2021)
Zackery Medeiros (48 - 2014)
51 - 60:
Brett Lauther (53 - 2013)
Billy Pavlopoulos (54 - 2013)
Dumitru Ionita (59 - 2013)
Gabriel Ferraro (59 - 2018)
61 - 70:
Keiran Burnham (61 - 2020)
JJ Molson (63 - 2020) - Note: this answers my previous questions about Molson. I wasn't aware he had been drafted until doing this research.