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Not a surprise that Claybrooks was fired given his record. Ed Hervey should also have been fired for jettisoning players like SolE who went on to become allstars with other teams. Hope the Lions take the time and do due diligence before hiring their new coach

* I sure hope there's a way to retain Kelly Bates (who I believe is under contract for 2020?) and Ryan Phillps.

* I have a feeling this was 90% on Braley, 10% LeLacheur, and 0% Hervey who stuck his neck out to hire a first-timer and knows now that spotlight will be solely on himself.

* I do think that if our next hire isn't an offensive specialist (e.g. Campbell, Washington, Benevides), we'd better make damn sure we hire a top-notch offensive strategist as the OC.

* I wonder how much input Reilly will be given? I don't think Maas is in the mix BTW as he's too volatile, despite his Edmonton connections. I am sure he is a decent guy in the off-season, but head coaching is about 'image.' Those extreme in-game temper-tantrums reflect badly on organization and brand.


DH

i think hervey is a really dismal failure........... did he have one more year to go? but claybrooks didn't?. or can't afford to replace both?

one thing i think is really underrated is that changes/strategy/etc. have to be consistent and make sense.

you can can't be starting all kinds of new players 2 years in a row AND trying to squeeze marginal canadian talent into spots at the same time... and team that is very solid and talented can try to put an extra cheap canadian or two into the starting lineup because their dominant defense will cover for them..... putting in extra salary cap canadians while you have many new players and i think new DC and i understand complex defense just doesn't make logical sense.

someone mentioned it and i agree........ LaPolice was a disaster as HC in Winnipeg and then good as OC there later.

and the poster is absolutely right. winnipeg had an issue as to how many people they were already paying not to coach. trying to remember if LaPo was before or after Mike Kelly but if he was after that would have given him some extra time too as anything was a relief after MK.

i think O'Shea would have been fired too if there weren't issues as to $$$$$$ and paying so many other coaches recently............. i think 3 things happened in winnipeg to make it. the one was really unorthodox but necessary. OLine was so bad that winnipeg went with import at guard. that seemed to solidify things. and then they found QB and also some elite canadians. but playing an american at a canadian position was the big turning point for me.

Hambone wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:47 pm

BC 1988 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 am

That was Hervey's biggest mistake--offering Claybrooks the HC position (with zero experience) when he should have hired him as DC.

GMs can't win. They get criticized for hiring a guy with zero HC experience if it doesn't work out and they get criticized just as harshly if they go to the HC recycle bin.

Hervey wasn't going to lure Claybrooks out to the left coast for a lateral move. If the offer was for a DC he would have stayed in Calgary. I don't know what his contract situation was but if he still had term left Huf likely would not have granted permission to talk to him unless it was for a promotion.

That's right. Given the restrictions Hervey found himself working under--a not so absentee owner with no tolerance for losing seasons--he should have let some other club take the risk on an unproven Claybrooks. When Claybrooks retreated back to CGY from the MTL HC offer, that should have been seen as a red flag.

Instead, this season was a colossal waste of time, fan goodwill, and $$$.

Sekeres commentary today pointed out how many different BC HC there have been since the 2011 GC win (and some of the regular season records were quite respectable). That should be a warning to anyone that the owner has no patience for a long term plan.

I wonder if Claybrooks was a fall-back option for Hervey. There was a lot of smoke that Edmonton was going to replace Maas a year ago, but the coaches cap and a bid to keep Reilly might have changed their plan and also his.

The absolutely worst part of today was the thought that a part of the decision making process was that someone didn't like the angle of his ball cap.

The firing of first year Head Coach DeVone Claybrooks should be viewed as a direct indictment of the Lions General Manager's performance as a GM.

There are two CFL GMs this season who should be buying lottery tickets these days - BC and Ottawa. Both were the architects and authors of the debacles their teams were in this season and one coach got fired and the other left on his accord.

Pro sports teams are the opposite of other forms of corporate organizations as GMs too often get to fire their coaches before they get fired even if they were the direct architects and authors of the debacles that the teams found themselves in this season.
If DeVone Claybrooks failed in his role as Head Coach, you look back then at how the recruitment and selection process that was in place and how he viewed the role of a Head Coach as distinct from that of a DC, OC, ST coach.

There is clearly a lot of upside for DeVone in a Head Coach role that it's too bad isn't going to be developed with the BC Lions.

My sense is that Coach Claybrooks can make some changes in his view of the role of a Head Coach that could easily have been put in place next season such as:

A clearer statement of how his view of the HC role aligns with the best of the winning coaches at the pro football level where the winningest coaches possess some or all of:

1. Clarity on what the role of the HC and how it's distinct and differs from coordinator roles. If you want to know how a leader will lead and manage, just ask who their role models are and why.

2. How to put in place a performance oriented culture that is upheld by all.
The winningest teams have cultures where the players demand of themselves what the standards are. This doesn't mean players yapping at others as that's the worst of cultures and even at an amateur level that doesn't work.
There are different takes on how this is done such as how Wally Buono held players to account with his view that his job was to win and do so by finding a player better than you and letting a player go before his best before date. Coach Claybrooks comes across as polar opposite and finding that middle ground is essential to his success.

3.. Overall perspective on the team philosophy of how this team is going to play.
There are differing ways to get there - Don Matthews (living on the edge/ basketball on grass) or Marv Levy (coach of coaches, "Ability without character will lose") or more conservative, traditional types (Wally Buono -'trick plays are for losing teams').
Whatever that philosophy is, it always turn up in the culture in critical moment in games such as when a DEF falls into prevention (not just on the last Hail Mary) and winds up losing as that team culture is so risk adverse that players themselves sense it's now about not losing versus playing our game and attacking plays as the means of prevention. Alternatively on OFF, where a Don Matthews loses a game by going for a win versus a tie and loses.
Football unlike any other pro game is fuelled by confidence and momentum. How that get that instilled is critical.

4. A coaching climate where it's not siloed and the HC ensures that coaches have chances to critique and challenge others. Do these coaches use the talent there well both players and assistants.
The status quo and a climate where there's no challenges to the OC and DC and ST schemes off season based on past year's success rate is never going to get you a different result.

I hope Hervey gives Claybrooks a generous offer to be the Lions DC. As a HC it didn't turn out, but as DC I think he's one of the best in the CFL.

Very little chance of that, John. When teams part ways with their head coach, very seldom do they come back to coach again within the organization, at least not right away.

Farhan reported today that word around the league (players included here....and I have to think some of our own players too) was that the Lions were woefully ill-prepared for games in the first half of the season. We kind of said as much on here, but it's still a bit shocking to hear it publicly.


DH

David wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:06 pm

* I wonder how much input Reilly will be given? I don't think Maas is in the mix BTW as he's too volatile, despite his Edmonton connections. I am sure he is a decent guy in the off-season, but head coaching is about 'image.' Those extreme in-game temper-tantrums reflect badly on organization and brand.
DH

I was born the same year as the BC Lions. They are "my" team. We are one, having gone through so much together, but if Jason Maas gets hired here as HC, I will take all of my BC Lions gear to Surrey and set fire to it right out in front of the Lions Head Office, 10605 City Parkway.

Bring marshmallows.

Jason Maas = Impudent. Unprofessional. Undisciplined. Disrespectful. Embarrassing.

Hats off to DeVone Claybrooks (no pun intended). I sincerely wish him the very best. Nice guy. He put in a lot of hard work on the Leos' behalf this season. It didn't work out, but he invested a lot of time and energy. Sometimes that's how it goes down. You live and learn. He may someday have his potential as HC realized in this league, or perhaps will eventually come to conclude he's more cut out for being a DC. and leave the big headache decisions to someone else.

I can see why he was fired, however, keeping him for another season to see what might have come of it would have seemed just as justifiable to me as keeping GM Hervey. But it's more often the case that the coach goes, not the GM. And seeing this is a done deal and already the case here, I think (though I'm no great fan of his) it's now better to be keeping Hervey for now, so as to provide stability and continuity. Would be too much of a disruption to the organization seeing both men fired at this time.

Dusty wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:41 pm

The absolutely worst part of today was the thought that a part of the decision making process was that someone didn't like the angle of his ball cap.

I don't think that was part of anyone's decision making process, but it's part of a portion of the fanbase's thought process, which is enough to make you roll your eyes at those people.

LaPolice's tenure in Winnipeg was undermined by a front office that was looking for a reason to broom him out the door and bring in Gary Crowton (who he was forced to bring in as his OC).

I too wish DC the best, but provided there's an overall upgrade here, I'm not broken up about his dismissal. This team performed below personnel level for much of the season, and that's on him and much of this coaching staff first and foremost.

Which doesn't mean Hervey's done a great job, because he hasn't. We have one strength in personnel right now, and that's domestic drafting and talent. On the plus side, the guy doing that isn't going anywhere and can step in when Hervey moves on. Which, if he doesn't get this next hire right, should be shortly.

And speaking of the next hire, I've come around to the next point of thinking that the strength of the next hire should not really be the opposite of the strength of the previous one. Hiring an offensive guy to fix the weakness the last defensive guy left behind isn't the right way to do this. Don't bring in a fire and brimstone guy to replace the buddy you just broomed. You're trying to find balance, not perpetually vacillate among extremes.

Give me someone with a documented track record of building and maintaining a program , please.

I'm in no way advocating for Maas but from my own observations it seems to me the volatility and in-game tantrums have been greatly reduced from what they were earlier in his HC tenure. It was about half way through last season that he acknowledged he needed to control such emotions. For the most part he seems to have been successful in that regard. He may not have totally eliminated them but definitely has reduced them to where they are closer the level of many of his peers.

cromartie wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:56 am

This team performed below personnel level for much of the season, and that's on him and much of this coaching staff first and foremost.

I am quite aligned with this take. I didn't want to see DC dismissed, largely because I came to see on-field improvement, great buy-in from his players, and just for continuity's sake. The optics of yet another significant change to the organization looks horrible to the casual fan.

But to say this club was bereft of talent would not be true. Sure, there were areas to upgrade; that's true of most clubs. But Hervey did a very good in-season job of talent procurement (Dozier, Newsome, Renfrow et al.). We were also pretty fortunate not to get a lot of injuries, except at the very end (Durant, Reilly, Grymes).

So I don't think our record was reflective of the level of talent on this squad. We should have been at least 9-9 or 10-8, and that's on coaching. Not just DeVone but the whole staff. Therefore, the dismissal is not completely without merit.


DH