Lions' Post Season and on into 2015

[SammyGreene]

Buono and Lulay took questions for nearly an hour in what was both a mea culpa on a dreadful end to their year and an admitted marketing push prior to a Dec. 16 season ticket-renewal deadline and small price increase.

Glad LU mentioned this. I get the head coaching update but it's really odd to see Wally hold a presser to announce which veterans weren't going to be offered new contracts and discuss everything else under the sun. Such is the case when you suddenly have lost the consumer's confidence and the early bird season ticket renewal is days away.

It was kind of sad seeing Travis rolled out again. Even with his bad shoulder and career in serious jeopardy he is the best QB the Lions have to offer their fan base right now so the GM says Travis needs to be more careful next season not to re-injure it again. If it was only that simple. Hopefully, they won back the confidence of a few fans.

[WestCoastJoe]

Buono and Lulay took questions for nearly an hour in what was both a mea culpa on a dreadful end to their year and an admitted marketing push prior to a Dec. 16 season ticket-renewal deadline and small price increase.

Glad LU mentioned this. I get the head coaching update but it's really odd to see Wally hold a presser to announce which veterans weren't going to be offered new contracts and discuss everything else under the sun. Such is the case when you suddenly have lost the consumer's confidence and the early bird season ticket renewal is days away.

It was kind of sad seeing Travis rolled out again. Even with his bad shoulder and career in serious jeopardy he is the best QB the Lions have to offer their fan base right now so the GM says Travis needs to be more careful next season not to re-injure it again. If it was only that simple. Hopefully, they won back the confidence of a few fans.

Yes, it struck me as a bit odd and sad too, to see them trot out the trooper, Travis Lulay, in the press conference.

But what else can they do? Many questions and answers with Lulay, about his health. Hmmmmm He did his best. Hardly a high level marketing promotion though, despite the amazing character and class of Travis Lulay.

And then Wally discusses the parting of the ways with some veterans.

Promotion or post-mortem? But, once again, what else can they do?

From the ashes ... It starts now. We will see ...

[TheLionKing]

Encouraged to hear that Wally isn't restricting his search for a head coach to just within the CFL.

[Toppy Vann]

Encouraged to hear that Wally isn't restricting his search for a head coach to just within the CFL.

As a GM he sure isn't impressing me with his description of his process. But he might not want to outline who is speaking to about prospective top candidates.

I doubt he'd take a non-CFL experienced coach like MTL did with Trestman and mostly those choices don't work out. For that reason it is reasonable he'd be open to consider Danny Barrett.

One thing that helps a team is to bring those from the CFL for full interviews and get their take on the approach forward for the Lions - what they'd do with this team and coaching staff. How they see the up and downsides of how this team was perceived by opponents. Even if you don't hire these guys you learn.

Wally likes those he knows and that is normal and natural. I suspect his issue with a Lapo might be how well he would work if the two of them have a difference of opinion. It seemed to me that Lapo and Mack didn't work things out. It was a standoff of sorts that didn't end well for either.

He does speak to others and I know in the past he has called to GMs like Tillman - who might be a bit compromised but gets on with Wally well and who might give him some insights as he has good instincts.


What I got from the story was that Wally says his HC will be spoken to about Lulay NOT running.

Let me put it this way.

IF Wally was the control freak some suggest like media guys then he'd be sitting Lulay down and telling him the facts of life and doing it very, very blunt terms and I'd paraphrase a Vic Rapp line and he could be blunt:

'Travis, if your plans include the British Columbia Lions you won't be tempting to run - other than for your life - and you won't be imitating Buck Pierce or Matt Dunigan.' And a bit of Hugh Campbell: 'Never be so arrogant to think that one play or one player wins or loses a football game.' 'We have given you good running backs, good schemes and good REC - trust them and use them. There is no medal here for getting hurt.'
'If I can't your assurance that you understand this, I'm not wasting my time or my money on you as a starter.'

As Sammy says it is sad that a guy who is injured and who fans think might never play (or at least not for long) is the only guy they can trot out.

[BC 1988]

I don't see Travis Lulay surviving as a Lion QB next season. His long-term health is at stake, not just his career.

To say that he needs to modify his style to do less running might work with a team that has the rock-solid O-line and coaching smarts of, say, a team like CGY.

There is no way BC season-ticket holders can be reassured by what has been said so far this week.

[B.C.FAN]

Lulay is only effective when he is able to run. He scrambles for first downs when receivers are covered and he forces defences to account for him, opening up passing lanes downfield. Lulay will never be effective as a pocket passer. His accuracy and arm strength were questionable in 2013, before his two most recent shoulder separations. I think what Wally is saying is that Lulay is not being paid to recover fumbles or tackle defenders after a turnover. Perhaps he shouldn't put his shoulder down and take on defenders to pick up first downs or touchdowns, but that's a tough change to make for a fierce competitor like Lulay. He is being paid to run and throw, though, and must not be discouraged from running the ball on read option or bootleg plays or scrambling for first downs when the pocket protection breaks down.

[WestCoastJoe]

Come September, what kind of success can we expect our team to be having?

Reminds me of a cartoon about Pierre Trudeau, and his realpolitik campaign one year, keeping the expectations low.

The cartoon was something to the effect of ...

In June I promised you nothing. In August I promised you nothing. In September I promised you nothing. By now, you should be getting some idea of what to expect.

LOL

Keep those expectations low, Wally. Don't want to get the hopes up unreasonably high.
.............

Is it all that bad in LionLand? Well ... No Head Coach. No quarterback. The two most important positions for a team, as Wally says, and as some of us agree.

Our talent can be competitive, IMO. Quarterback? Hmmmm ... Wally talked earlier about us being two or three years behind in the development of young quarterbacks. OK. How about veterans? Hmmm ... Cupboard kind of bare there too.

Who knows? Could we pick up a guy like Dan LeFevour? Would he not look as effective as he did in Hamilton? Strong possibility of that.

So much depends on the selection of a Head Coach. Personality? Far down the list IMO. Xs and Os? Near the top. Autonomy? Essential.

So we will see ...

[Hambone]

I don't see Travis Lulay surviving as a Lion QB next season. His long-term health is at stake, not just his career.

To say that he needs to modify his style to do less running might work with a team that has the rock-solid O-line and coaching smarts of, say, a team like CGY.

There is no way BC season-ticket holders can be reassured by what has been said so far this week.

I don't think Lulay necessarily would have to run less. More importantly he just has to run smarter. Ricky Ray and Anthony Calvillo could never be confused with Damon Allen or Doug Flutie when it comes to running but neither were afraid to tuck the ball and run with it when the situation dictated. What they did do much better than Lulay is follow the old adage of discretion being the better part of valour. When they ran they rarely put themselves into a position to take a hit. They'd pull the chute and hook slide or get out of bounds. If it was before getting a first down or TD so be it. For them It was better to live to get those things on the next series than to take a chance.

[Rammer]

I don't see Travis Lulay surviving as a Lion QB next season. His long-term health is at stake, not just his career.

To say that he needs to modify his style to do less running might work with a team that has the rock-solid O-line and coaching smarts of, say, a team like CGY.

There is no way BC season-ticket holders can be reassured by what has been said so far this week.

I don't think Lulay necessarily would have to run less. More importantly he just has to run smarter. Ricky Ray and Anthony Calvillo could never be confused with Damon Allen or Doug Flutie when it comes to running but neither were afraid to tuck the ball and run with it when the situation dictated. What they did do much better than Lulay is follow the old adage of discretion being the better part of valour. When they ran they rarely put themselves into a position to take a hit. They'd pull the chute and hook slide or get out of bounds. If it was before getting a first down or TD so be it. For them It was better to live to get those things on the next series than to take a chance.

I agree with that, but the real problem is that Lulay's shoulder gave out while being in the pocket and getting mildly hit. He can avoid the hits all he wants on the run, but that shoulder is not likely to hold up the season, which is not very comfortable when he is going into the season as the starter...I doubt he plays all 18+ games, and that reduces the Lions chances of a playoff spot significantly.

[Toppy Vann]

I don't see Travis Lulay surviving as a Lion QB next season. His long-term health is at stake, not just his career.

To say that he needs to modify his style to do less running might work with a team that has the rock-solid O-line and coaching smarts of, say, a team like CGY.

There is no way BC season-ticket holders can be reassured by what has been said so far this week.

I don't think Lulay necessarily would have to run less. More importantly he just has to run smarter. Ricky Ray and Anthony Calvillo could never be confused with Damon Allen or Doug Flutie when it comes to running but neither were afraid to tuck the ball and run with it when the situation dictated. What they did do much better than Lulay is follow the old adage of discretion being the better part of valour. When they ran they rarely put themselves into a position to take a hit. They'd pull the chute and hook slide or get out of bounds. If it was before getting a first down or TD so be it. For them It was better to live to get those things on the next series than to take a chance.

Fully agree but I fear that Lulay doesn't think of himself like those guys but more like Matt Dunigan.

[MexicoLionFan]

Lulay is only effective when he is able to run. He scrambles for first downs when receivers are covered and he forces defences to account for him, opening up passing lanes downfield. Lulay will never be effective as a pocket passer. His accuracy and arm strength were questionable in 2013, before his two most recent shoulder separations. I think what Wally is saying is that Lulay is not being paid to recover fumbles or tackle defenders after a turnover. Perhaps he shouldn't put his shoulder down and take on defenders to pick up first downs or touchdowns, but that's a tough change to make for a fierce competitor like Lulay. He is being paid to run and throw, though, and must not be discouraged from running the ball on read option or bootleg plays or scrambling for first downs when the pocket protection breaks down.

Yep, Blitz and I have said this about Travis since he came from US College football...he has always had a less than purrfect throwing motion which has meant that he has never been the most accurate pocket passer...and now with his shoulder inflammation and scar tissue it will only get worse. Travis killed CFL defences by throwing while scrambling as BCFAN said, to take this aspect of Lulay's game away, including his ability to take off and run with the ball, takes away Lulay's game, period. So for anyone here waiting on Lulay's return to form, sadly, it just isn't going to happen again...and just listen to Travis when he speaks publicly, he is certain about everything until he starts talking about his shoulder, and then he just doesn't know...even he has no confidence that the shoulder can stand up to pro football, he's just saying that at $450,000 per year, he is prepared to continue to play the game of TRYING to return...but I assure all of you that he won't ever again at the level he once played at.

[WestCoastJoe]

Lulay is only effective when he is able to run. He scrambles for first downs when receivers are covered and he forces defences to account for him, opening up passing lanes downfield. Lulay will never be effective as a pocket passer. His accuracy and arm strength were questionable in 2013, before his two most recent shoulder separations. I think what Wally is saying is that Lulay is not being paid to recover fumbles or tackle defenders after a turnover. Perhaps he shouldn't put his shoulder down and take on defenders to pick up first downs or touchdowns, but that's a tough change to make for a fierce competitor like Lulay. He is being paid to run and throw, though, and must not be discouraged from running the ball on read option or bootleg plays or scrambling for first downs when the pocket protection breaks down.

Yep, Blitz and I have said this about Travis since he came from US College football...he has always had a less than purrfect throwing motion which has meant that he has never been the most accurate pocket passer...and now with his shoulder inflammation and scar tissue it will only get worse. Travis killed CFL defences by throwing while scrambling as BCFAN said, to take this aspect of Lulay's game away, including his ability to take off and run with the ball, takes away Lulay's game, period. So for anyone here waiting on Lulay's return to form, sadly, it just isn't going to happen again...and just listen to Travis when he speaks publicly, he is certain about everything until he starts talking about his shoulder, and then he just doesn't know...even he has no confidence that the shoulder can stand up to pro football, he's just saying that at $450,000 per year, he is prepared to continue to play the game of TRYING to return...but I assure all of you that he won't ever again at the level he once played at.

So Wally wants to change the way Lulay plays. This comment by Wally in his press conference seems to me like window dressing. For public consumption. Yes, I am in charge. I will change things after our humiliation.

At Lulay's age, it would seem to be extremely counter-productive to even consider changing the way he plays.

As noted, Lulay is at his best after he leaves the pocket. It breaks the defence down. DL are scrambling. DBs have their heads on a swivel. Where is Lulay? Do I have to defend his run? Where is my man? Lulay can/could kill with his feet. And he can kill with the pass, especially when on the run. These are the key things about Lulay's play. Is Wally going to change those? I don't think so.

Can Wally controlling the way Lulay plays keep Lulay healthy? Not a chance on this planet. His comments about changing Lulay's style of play are just window dressing.

Recovering fumbles? Once in a blue moon. Hardly relevant. And I can't see Lulay standing by while the opponents recover it either. Window dressing.

Don't put your shoulder down to go for the TD or the 1st down. Don't try to recover fumbles. Hook slide. At his age, these messages have not taken hold up to this time. If he can play next year, we will see if he changes any of that. And can we count on him lasting the year anyway? Not quite the solid rock to build upon.

Toppy and I have talked about this kind of thing for years (I used to call it the Staubach Slide, as he was perhaps the first QB I saw deliberately hit the deck before getting creamed). As coach one tells the quarterback, if you do not hook slide you will not play. That has not happened to Lulay. It did not happen with Buck Pierce. They kept playing the way they have always played.

Can one fault Wally for his comment? Nah. What else is he going to say?

He brought Lulay out there, as the quarterback of the Lions. So what gets talked about? Lulay's health. Hardly inspirational to the fan base. Kind of sad. But what else can Wally talk about?

Are we at rock bottom?

Well, let's see ...

Ahead of us: Cal, Ham, Edm, Sas, Mtl, Tor (they have a quarterback, Ricky Ray, and they have a Head Coach, Scott Milanovich).

Even with us? Winnipeg.

Behind us? Ottawa.

We have no quarterback. We have no Head Coach. We have been backsliding. We squeaked into the playoffs in a year when Hamilton and Toronto barely had a home. We got humiliated in the playoff game.

It seems to me we are near rock bottom. That could be a wakeup call. Could be. Wally said some of the right things. Window dressing? Or is he going to make decisions of real change? Or is he just going to try once again to make his way work? Go with Benny Part Two? Go with Wally Redux? It did not sound like he saw a need to change his approach to autonomy for the Head Coach.

We are at rock bottom in another sense. No place to hide. Whatever happens from here onwards is most clearly attributable to Wally. No smokescreen. No scapegoats. No JC to fire. No Stubler to fire. No Benny to throw under the bus. It is all on Wally. Is the spotlight on Teflon Wally? I suppose in the minds of some he is not at fault. He has huge goodwill in his favour. But I think outside of his organization and his fan base, others see something akin to stagnation, staying in the comfort zone of what worked for 20 years.

His survival instincts will be at test. That might save him, and it might save us.

It will be interesting. It has our attention.

[South Pender]

I don't see Travis Lulay surviving as a Lion QB next season. His long-term health is at stake, not just his career.

To say that he needs to modify his style to do less running might work with a team that has the rock-solid O-line and coaching smarts of, say, a team like CGY.

There is no way BC season-ticket holders can be reassured by what has been said so far this week.

I don't think Lulay necessarily would have to run less. More importantly he just has to run smarter. Ricky Ray and Anthony Calvillo could never be confused with Damon Allen or Doug Flutie when it comes to running but neither were afraid to tuck the ball and run with it when the situation dictated. What they did do much better than Lulay is follow the old adage of discretion being the better part of valour. When they ran they rarely put themselves into a position to take a hit. They'd pull the chute and hook slide or get out of bounds. If it was before getting a first down or TD so be it. For them It was better to live to get those things on the next series than to take a chance.

Right on. Lulay can be just as effective with his legs if he will always--and I mean always--hook slide when he is going to be hit. And if he needs a model for this, he just needs to head down I5 and watch Russell Wilson avoid injury. Wilson is small by football standards (5-11 in elevator shoes), but he never gets hurt even though he's racking up gobs of rushing yardage (679 yards rushing so far in 2014, or 57 yards/game). He avoids injury by getting down early when a hit is surely coming. Although there are those who think that Lulay can't be trained--and required--to do this because his competitive instincts won't allow it, I disagree. The new HC needs to sit him down and make this a condition of his playing. This may extend Lulay's playing career unless his shoulder is now so fragile that even hitting the ground or taking a sack will put him out of action again.

[B.C.FAN]

When you think about it, there are many other players that Wally could have trotted out as the face of the franchise entering 2015:

- Solomon Elimimian, CFL most outstanding player and record-setting leader of one of the league's top defences
- Andrew Harris, sparkplug of the Lions' rushing and passing attack and CFLPA all-star despite missing a third of the season to injury
- Jovan Olafioye, four-time CFL all-star lineman
- Emmanuel Arceneaux, the team's leading receiver

The Lions have a solid mix of proven veterans and promising youngsters at almost every position except QB. Wally could have accentuated the solid foundation on which he new coach can build. Instead we're left to focus on 2015 as a season that hinges on the shaky health of Lulay.

[South Pender]

Frankly, I think that there's far too much crepe-hanging going on these days at Lionbackers. Sure, we're all staunch Lions fans and want desperately to see them succeed, but, hey, let's all be a little more Italian about this (meant as a compliment to Italians). The team is not facing doom and abject failure. Adjustments will be made with respect to players who are no longer effective and, in all likelihood, coaches who lack the requisite skills. The talent level in the CFL is fairly even across the nine teams; the salary cap helps to ensure this. We will acquire a new head coach who, in all likelihood, will have some success, and the team will return to a respectable level of competitiveness. I don't agree with some of the negative characterizations of Buono, and I think he, as much as any of us on this forum and probably more, wants to find the key to success in 2015. He's an old pro, and I very much doubt that he's going to make a terrible HC selection. Only the benefit of hindsight has enabled us (and Buono) to see the promotion of Benevides to HC as a mistake. We were pretty well all sanguine about the Benevides appointment when it was announced. I for one am not going to wring my hands in anticipation over this. Let's sit back and wait and see who's appointed, and then, perhaps, we can wring our hands--but it would be waste of time then too. As Aaron Rodgers spelled out to Packers fans when the team was 1-2 after the first three games and fans were spiralling down into debilitating levels of depression and anxiety: R-E-L-A-X (and the Pack has been 8-1 since).