Lions 16 - Roughriders 20 -- Post Game Stats and Comments

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Blitz
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TheLionKing wrote:
DanoT wrote:With the O piling up 2 and outs in the second half, why did Lulay not get into the game earlier just for a change of pace and to try and shake things up a bit? :dizzy:

I know that Coach Benny has a game plan and likes to stick with it: "Run the ball and keep Glenn in the game and don't rush Lulay back in to action until after the bye week". This is fine, but if the game plan is clearly not working then adapt and make some changes. :bang:
Another coaching decision that's a head scratcher. All week he talks about getting Lulay more playing time yet he inserts Lulay into the Toronto game with no apparent rhyme or reason.
Well. even though Benevedes said he didn't care about what people thought perhaps he did...or perhaps he really isn't sure inside of himself.

Benevedes said the plan prior to the game was to go with Glenn and during the game the style of play from the Regina defense made him want to stick with Glenn.

The reality is that both Glenn and Lulay have had similar quarterback efficiency averages the past two seasons and Glenn won a lot of games for Calgary. I don't think winning or losing this game was mostly due to the quarterback position.

The reality is that the Riders came from behind with a backup quarterback who is not in Glenn or Lulay's league. In fact we should have been able to use Beck at quarterback, who has more on his resume than the Regina backup qb and won. We should be able to win with either quarterback. Our quarterbacks were not responsible for the 9 carries between Harris and Logan for 12 yards that sure made the game a hell of a lot tougher on second down or the game plan of the Riders to zone blitz and squeeze their ends inside on first down.... and for us to keep trying to run inside nor were our quarterbacks responsible for the cheating tight coverage while our receivers were not able to get open deep or for us to scheme our quarterback protection better to provide the time needed to air some out.
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sj-roc
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notahomer wrote:If you want to watch this dogs breakfast again, it is replaying tonight on TSN2 @ 9 PM P.D.T. (channel 147 in my neck of the woods).

No doubt this game will probably almost definately "WIN" the fan poll and be the CFL replay game for Tuesday.......
With today's five-feed launch TSN1-5 are now on 181-5 respectively.

I think eventually TSN2 on 147 (that's where I've been getting it, too) will be discontinued in favour of the 180 series of feeds but for now is simulcasted during this transition period.

Not sure what will become of TSN(1) on channel 23. Will it remain there or become available only on 181?

This looks to be setting up like the TSN brand will be removed entirely from the basic cable subscription package and only available as an add-on to it. Hard to imagine anyway that they would just add three extra channels and not charge any extra for them.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
TheLionKing
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South Pender wrote: The NFL cuts are coming: all teams must be down to 75 (from 90) by tomorrow, and then to 53 by next week. Wally might be wise to bring in a few hungry NFL cuts if for no other reason than to light a fire under some of our incumbents. And, speaking of NFL cuts, the Riders may be getting Dressler back soon; he was cut by the Chiefs.
Heard that the Lions are interested in bringing in NFL cuts for NEXT year's training camp, not for the rest of the season.
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WestCoastJoe
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sj-roc wrote:WCJ,

It's been one of your recurring themes on this board that the quality of coaching has undergone strong growth in recent years, and something in this regard in your last post stood out to me.
WestCoastJoe wrote:... times have changed. We have commented endlessly about the rise in the level of coaching in the CFL. It makes for exciting times.
It's a little bit ironic you say this at a time when many observers have noted games have become more tedious than ever. I don't say this to be confrontational. In fact, I believe you meant it honestly, that you meant it in the sense that because coaching quality has risen so dramatically, it has made it exciting — for students of the game, that's my key here — to observe the attendant evolution in strategy and gameplanning. This point, I can understand (and if I'm wrong on how I read the way you meant it, please feel free to correct me).
It does seem ironic. And I phrased it hurriedly for a quick post. Nevertheless, it was meant pretty much as you stated, sj. Exciting for students of the game. Evolution. Exciting times to have Kent Austin back from the US. Exciting to have Chris Jones unleash his attack style defence as a Head Coach. It seems to me the bar has risen fast and far, going back to the arrival of Hufnagel, Trestman, Austin and Milanovich. For example. We beat Regina with a dynamic run game. Next time around they have adjusted and they stuff our run game. We did not adjust, not well enough. There seems to be a definite swing in the balance from offence to defence in the league. Credit Jones. Credit Stubler. It is a constant evolution, and the teams/coaches that adjust best/fastest win the glory.
The problem of course would be that most of the people who buy tickets to watch all of this are not students of the game, but rather just want to pay for a few hours' entertainment to divert from their usual daily travails. One might draw a parallel here to the NHL. In 1995, the Stanley Cup-winning NJ Devils, coached by noted defensive disciplinarian Jacques Lemaire, ushered in a new era of defensive emphasis and almost made a relic of the 50-goal/100-point scorer (to this day they remain one of the few long-established NHL franchises, if not the only, to have never had at least one of either of these). Many NHL observers have put forth the view that this strong defensive focus by coaches sapped the creativity out of the game's most exciting players.
Point well made. Scoring sells tickets. At my age, I look for solid play. Could be defence. Could be Hunter Steward pass blocking. Could be Chris Jones blitzing. I still like great running plays, individual effort and the passing game though.

Was a time, for many years, when I could barely watch a team play that I rooted for. Too much emotion involved. That time seems to have passed. Now I can watch, and it is fun. Even enjoyed last night's game.
Do you feel that there's a valid parallel here? I.E., that the widely acknowledged tedium of the current CFL season — and I'm speaking in reference to the entire league here, certainly not just the Lions specifically — can be laid at least to some extent at the feet of coaches who, in the course of greatly raising the bar in their performance, are gameplanning the creativity from the game and the players? I wouldn't think it's 100% the case as for me, it's often the way penalties get called (or not) that seem to detract from the game. But I do wonder whether the former excitement of this game from seasons past would necessarily return if only we cleaned up this aspect of the officiating.
I just see it as the natural ebb and flow. For years, offence dominated. Passing game. Running game. Defences moved to tweeners, speedsters, athletes. More coaches went to attack style defence. Offensive opportunities were squeezed down. The swing was to outstanding defence. That is where we seem to be at. Even Ricky Ray is not throwing for 500 yards. Many QBs held under 200 yards passing.

In the long run, I see offences almost always dominating in our game, because of the field, because of the natural tendency for the guys with the ball to dictate. For the time being we are in a bit of spell where defences dominate. Defences gamble and cheat. They must be made to pay, with an attack style offence. We don't to that of course. LOL We play it safe. No turnovers. Go for the field goal at the 31 yard line on third and less than one.
Another point:

Bitter loss. But we almost took the loss lying down. No fight.

On the 1040 postgame last night, I believe it was Farhan Lalji who commented (and I sit too far away at the game to get a good read on this myself) that for pretty much the entire second half, the Lions' bench was emotionless, lifeless. Considering we played that entire half against a backup QB, had held the lead until the last play of Q3 and remained within striking distance the rest of the way, this is simply astonishing.
It is my feeling that players pick up on the mood, the sense of purpose, the determination of the leaders. If the players sense a drift, or lack of purpose, or a deeper reluctance to play to win, the players subconsciously drift that way themselves. Did anyone sense determination on the part of Benevides, as he fulminates on the sideline? Or does he have more of the look of a deer in the headlights? What is happening out there? If even Andrew Harris lacked his usual fire, then we cannot expect to beat a team that wants it more. Part of the determination is seeing a way to the end. Does Benny see a way to victory? Is he determined to find a way to victory, some how, some way, without fear of taking chances. Or does he hope for victory, trying to protect a lead from the 1st quarter? Trying to hang on to a narrow lead, as it slowly evaporates, leading to a loss?

Thanks for the question, sj. Just IMO of course.
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[quote]when Defences cheat against us to stop our run, they should NOT be able to stop our passing game...its a chess match...they adapt, you adapt...and you make them pay for CHEATING.[/quote[

I believe we just cleared out a set of assistants who were pretty poor at this, no?

As for the offense vs. defense question, adding a 9th team drained the NI talent pool a little thin on the offensive side of the ball, which I think is a primary cause of the imbalance. Give it time and it will right itself.
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Any rumblings Steward post game. I noitced him limping a couple plays before the end of the game and he was very slow to get up favouring a knee after the last play. Other than that one sweep he busted up for a big loss I thought Chick was largely invisible most of the game lined up on Steward's side.
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Hambone wrote:Any rumblings Steward post game. I noitced him limping a couple plays before the end of the game and he was very slow to get up favouring a knee after the last play. Other than that one sweep he busted up for a big loss I thought Chick was largely invisible most of the game lined up on Steward's side.
Hope Steward is okay, he was the difference maker in our O since his insertion. I am going to guess without reviewing the sweep play that Steward wasn't responsible for Chick, as the OL had to sell the it otherwise. Chick had a couple of penetrations on the other side as you point out, rather interesting on Stewards rapid progression, a real surprise for the Lions.
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From Lowell Ullrich in the Province ...
"Instead of playing to win we played to keep a lead. We have to do a better job on offence. We got to move the ball." -- Stefan Logan
"We played to keep a lead."

And where does that mind set start? With Benevides, taking the field goal in Q1 at the 31, instead of going for the 1st down, with less than a yard to go on 3rd down. Sets a tone IMO. Why gamble? Because otherwise your team catches the disease - the play safe disease.
And after spending 61 years to reach a historic milestone, the Lions ended Sunday looking up again.
Yes, the sweet smell of fresh air is once again denied to us. Looking up from inside the well again, one game under .500 for our franchise in its history. LOL

The news gets worse ...
They even had to deal with a bit more drama before the game with defensive lineman Jabar Westerman, who was absent from the Lions’ walkthrough Saturday and was told to stay home Sunday, not a promising development for a player who was already on thin ice as a result of the charge of common assault, which has him doing community-service work these days.
“It’s a slap in the face to allow a backup quarterback who probably doesn’t even take a snap in practice to come in here and remotely execute anything in the second half,” Lions defensive back Ryan Phillips said after Durant left at halftime with a hand injury and Sunseri outplayed Glenn.

“To me that is horrible, plain and simple. We didn’t execute in all facets of the game. Take that back, Tim Brown did his thing. Outside of Tim we didn’t execute in the second half. They made adjustments, we had critical penalties.”
"They made adjustments."

Yes they did. Us? Not so much.
Oddly though, Benevides didn’t go to his quarterbacking bullpen, though it came as no surprise to Lulay.

“Not after the conversation we had Saturday. (Benevides) said we’ll ride Kevin unless something happens. I knew this was part of the process. I knew I wouldn’t snap my finger and go from 0-60,” Lulay said.
Where was Mr. Benny Bluster with the QB switch? Doing it his way, despite what TV guys like Matt Dunigan say is bad for the situation? No, it seems Benny went with the philosophy expressed by Dunigan. Don't upset your starter. Don't upset the rhythm. Don't plant doubts in the QB's mind. Oooops ... Too late. Last game probably planted some doubts. Glenn looked like his timing and rhythm were far from sharp.

So now "we'll ride Kevin unless something happens." Ooops ... It happened.
“Regardless of today’s outcome, I know we’re a better club than Week 1,” said Lulay. “Record-wise we have some making up to do but I feel good about this room because we have more talent than when we had a real struggle. We’ve progressed from Week 1 to 9; if we progress from Week 10 to 18 we can make a good push.”
"more talent than when we had a real struggle" ... Yes, some of us see it that way. Loads of talent IMO. Talent that allowed us to beat Toronto, Calgary and Regina.

Playing it safe, protecting a lead brought us ...

* 12 first downs

* 56 yards rushing

* 173 yards passing

* 0 interceptions ... Hooray!

* 0 Fumbles

IMO playing it safe is ... Slow death by a thousand strokes. Better to go for the glory. No fear. Attack. Umm ... No ... We might make mistakes. We might turn over the ball. We might give up a pick 6. We might give up a long TD pass. Can't do that. OK, let's play it safe.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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IMO playing it safe is ... Slow death by a thousand strokes. Better to go for the glory. No fear. Attack. Umm ... No ... We might make mistakes. We might turn over the ball. We might give up a pick 6. We might give up a long TD pass. Can't do that. OK, let's play it safe. WCJ
We sure did play it safe...both Stefan and you WCJ are bang on. As for Gore's comments - they made adjustments, we took too many penalties..I'm sure he would have liked to have said 'we didn't make adjustments'.

On a different theme...Stefan Logan was on fire last week and we gave him one carry in the game. It would have made more sense to give him the rock and give Harris the football more as the game wore on and he got back to game speed... as he had been out a week. Instead we use Logan as a pass blocker.

This offence drives me crazy. We only run one misdirection play in the game, other than the fly sweep, and we line Harris off-set, fake to Logan and give Harris the ball on a naked counter...and the Riders nail it for a loss....not fooled at all. It would have made more sense to give it to Logan on the counter to use his speed outside, especially since we had run Harris inside.

For those complaining about the fact that we ran the football inside the tackles a lot...well that is what a spread offence running attack is.
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TheLionKing
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Hambone wrote:Any rumblings Steward post game. I noitced him limping a couple plays before the end of the game and he was very slow to get up favouring a knee after the last play. Other than that one sweep he busted up for a big loss I thought Chick was largely invisible most of the game lined up on Steward's side.
I agree the much heralded Chick was largely invisible except for tackling Harris for a loss. Riders were moving him around on the defensive line instead of just leaving him at defensive end.
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And I thought it was just me who thought the Lions offense looked predictable on both passing and running plays.

When a team's President is meeting and addressing the team about a "guaranteed win" 2 days before an important home game - that is just plain wrong.

Team President's should stay the bleep out of the trash talking department and focus on the business and marketing side of the entity - something this administration team seems to lost site of.

So it generated a media buzz but what do they do now? Marketing is not just a one time event or deal.

Remember the rock bands to draw crowds? Nothing like that is sustainable.

It's an entire game day experience at a price point that the fan feels good about that will attract fans - and with all those people living within walking and short bus distance in Vancouver and all that diversity - marketing to those groups seems reasonable to do.

I haven't always agreed with Angus Reid but focusing on the game and player storylines seems far more sustainable and long term than a win that just annoys opponents.

The Riders had some sort of photocopy of Skulsky and it showed up in their effort.

It is ironic that as now MB has the assistants of HIS choice as he made that clear, his leadership makes him look little better than a poser down there on the sideline.

HC sets the tone - provides a clear direction and is consistent.

How can you respect a team leader who goes to the media with 'Tim Brown might not play' and 'I don't care what fans ' or TSN and 'they might get a whistle' type comments? You can't. You focus on your what your direct coaches say.

The Lion players speaking out now again suggest a loss of leadership as has happened before.

The West is far better now. Esks aren't lay downs any more.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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cromartie wrote:
when Defences cheat against us to stop our run, they should NOT be able to stop our passing game...its a chess match...they adapt, you adapt...and you make them pay for CHEATING.[/quote[

I believe we just cleared out a set of assistants who were pretty poor at this, no?

As for the offense vs. defense question, adding a 9th team drained the NI talent pool a little thin on the offensive side of the ball, which I think is a primary cause of the imbalance. Give it time and it will right itself.
Cro, Benny's still the HC...

You are so right about the shift, give it a little time and Offences will start lighting things up again...this is the CFL...wide field, pre snap motion, and defences a yard off the ball mean YARDS!
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Hambone wrote:Any rumblings Steward post game. I noitced him limping a couple plays before the end of the game and he was very slow to get up favouring a knee after the last play. Other than that one sweep he busted up for a big loss I thought Chick was largely invisible most of the game lined up on Steward's side.
Honestly Hambone, I think Steward is playing at an all star level...we just can't waste this incredible find (a CDN at LT) with this offensive system (and I mean offensive in a number of ways). IMO there is so much talent on this team...
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Great comments guys, Joe/Blitz brilliant stuff...thank you!
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Lots of good technical analysis here from previous posters. From my perspective of a fan in the stands, if the Lions offense can't be creative, they should at least try to be entertaining. Boring, boring football! Whatever happened to passes downfield that go at least 10 yards over the line of scrimmage? Whatever happened to utilizing the whole field, which includes throwing to sideline patterns and long balls? I'm so tired of 2 yard passes and 2 YAK yards which ultimately led to 3rd and 2. The Lions have very talented players and not a game should go by where at least one receiver has excess of 100 yards.

Whatever happened to the general rule of thumb that you go to the playmakers who are hot. Brown was hot, and Logan was possibly still hot from the previous game. Harris, on the other hand (with all due respect), was coming off injury and was not hot. Pretty simple, give the ball to Logan and/or Brown.

Time to move one of the young guys at wideout. Players who lunch with Rob Ford and talk philanthropy with him through the afternoon may also have difficulty catching balls, blocking, and generally thinking straight.

I'm concerned about the CFL in general. Whatever happened to excitement and entertainment? The Lions are one of the worst culprits. It's time for more Don Matthews/Doug Flutie-type thinkers. Milt Stegall needs to talk to Kharei Jones about how they did things in the good ole days.
"the 1996 season was a very difficult period... I couldn't imagine telling people that I was part of the last days of the CFL... it seemed that there would be no end to the continuous stream of catastrophic problems... it was like living in a toxic fishbowl... if they had known how serious the situation was, but we couldn't make it public, for fear of a total meltdown". (from Bigger Balls, The CFL and Overcoming the Canadian Inferiority Complex, by Jeff Giles)
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