CFL Exploring Elimination of the Extra Point?

[South Pender]

I saw this on Pro Football Talk--a piece by Mike Florio

CFL also exploring elimination of extra point
Posted by Mike Florio on January 24, 2014, 1:06 PM EST

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell would like to get rid of the extra point. The CFL possibly will be doing the same thing.

Via Mike Zwolinski of the Toronto Star, the CFL has discussed dumping the one-point PAT — and could continue to do so.

“Our rules committee discussed the idea of eliminating or altering the convert several years ago and as recently as last year,” CFL V.P. of officiating told the Star. “We plan on continuing to explore this idea, but no change is imminent.”

The possibility of the NFL’s interest in dumping the one-point conversion spreading to the CFL gives rise to another intriguing question: Would it trickle down to lower levels of American football?

In college and high school football, it’s far less automatic to convert the point-after kick. But if the goal is to eliminate opportunities for contact and thus injury, college and high school governing bodies could choose to make a touchdown worth seven points, with the ability to risk one point in the hopes of picking up an eighth by going for two.

[WestCoastJoe]

For me personally, I don't like any of the kicking game. They could get rid of converts and field goals. Even punts. LOL

Kickoffs? In the NFL many of the kickoffs are through the end zone anyway.

So if you are stuck down by your own goal line, too bad. The other team gets a great opportunity to score.

Bye bye converts? No big deal to me.

Of course field goals and punts are here to stay. Converts, if they go, no problem for me.

Kickers barely take part in practice. Alex Karras called them "golfers." In some games they barely get on the field. To me kicking is a strange aspect of football, despite the fact the game is called football. To me the heart of "football" is passing, running, blocking and tackling, not kicking. With converts, field goals and punts, of course, the kicker plays an important role. Golfers. Little, delicate touch on the foot of the punter = penalty. And this attitude is despite the fact that I loved Lui Passaglia. In high school Lui was an all around football player. To an extent, in college too. It seems strange to me that a kicker can make money in the same range as linemen. Strange and kind of unfair. Linemen get killed, and the kickers almost never have contact.

[sj-roc]

Kickers' union certainly wouldn't go for it.

But if the 1PC kick is abolished then they should prob make the existing 2PC worth one point. You're more likely to have tie scores if everything comes mostly in threes and sixes (notwithstanding the rouge and safeties, so it would be a bigger issue for the NFL, I suppose) and a greater chance of OT, which gives the network no ad revenue. Having a not-necessarily-a-gimme convert-by-TD decreases the likelihood of tie scores, which is why we already have a mandatory 2PC in OT.

[JohnHenry]

Kickers' union certainly wouldn't go for it.

But if the 1PC kick is abolished then they should prob make the existing 2PC worth one point. You're more likely to have tie scores if everything comes mostly in threes and sixes (notwithstanding the rouge and safeties, so it would be a bigger issue for the NFL, I suppose) and a greater chance of OT, which gives the network no ad revenue. Having a not-necessarily-a-gimme convert-by-TD decreases the likelihood of tie scores, which is why we already have a mandatory 2PC in OT.

One point should be taken away if the "two point" convert failed or teams would be trying for the 8th point on every TD.

Canadian football fans have been complaining since the 1920's (according to newspaper reports from the day) that the American-style convert lined up right in front of the upright was "too soft"...but we adopted it anyway...rather than the traditional "free kick" which was lined up at the point on the field where the "TD" was scored.

[KnowItAll]

Place kicking should remain a big part of the game.

move the 1 pt convert scrimmage line back to the 30,

give option to pk for 2 from the 40 or 3 from the 50

retain the existing option of going for 2 pt as well.

Removing punting would be insane. Might as well change the name to field handball.

CFL kickoff is just fine, NFL kickoff needs some work.

[Toppy Vann]

Place kicking should remain a big part of the game.

move the 1 pt convert scrimmage line back to the 30,

give option to pk for 2 from the 40 or 3 from the 50

retain the existing option of going for 2 pt as well.

Removing punting would be insane. Might as well change the name to field handball.

CFL kickoff is just fine, NFL kickoff needs some work.

KIA... some decent ideas here. I hate to see kicking eliminated especially as at lower levels kicks are not a gimme.

NFL kicking is a problem with too few run backs on kicks and the PAT in pro sports almost a sure thing. But what it does do is keep your kicker's head in the game rather than his only time on the field to try for the long one .

The CFL game is like Trestman said - well thought out now and put together and he said up in the CFL it is harder than the US rules to coach.

Our bigger end zone makes the game far more interesting as does the 3 downs and 20 second clock. Other than watching Peyton, the 40 seconds is a boring facet of the NFL game that is insane.

I like the single point rule on a missed FG forcing a run out or kick out in a close game - something we don't see much of these days but I like it there.

Hockey did a lot of tinkering and it has had a lot of unintended consequences and not all good.

[DanoT]

I'm ok with eliminating the point after TD, but please no other changes to the CFL kicking game or any other rules.

[TheLionKing]

I'm ok with eliminating the point after TD, but please no other changes to the CFL kicking game or any other rules.

X2 The convert is so automatic these days. It's news when the kicker misses the convert.

[KnowItAll]

I'm ok with eliminating the point after TD, but please no other changes to the CFL kicking game or any other rules.

X2 The convert is so automatic these days. It's news when the kicker misses the convert.

could always change it so that they have to hit one of the posts to get the point

[Coast Mountain Lion]

The kicking game in Canadian football is fine the way it is, but I like KiA's suggestion of moving the kick back to make it less automatic. Or at least move it to the hashmark from where the TD was scored from (and while we're at it, move the hashmarks back out where they used to be).

If they're worried about injuries on a marginal contact play which occurs on average maybe half a dozen times a game, I think the game has more serious issues than it just being an automatic point.

[Blitz]

Field goals provide the opportunity to reward teams for field position gained. I prefer the NFL way of kicking field goals. If you make it you get the points and if you miss then the opposition offence gets the football at the previosu line of scimmage. I would eliminate the single point that comes from missed field goals that go through the end zone or cannot be returned out of the end zone.

I like our punting rules (eg: the football has to hit the turf between the 20's and the punting team is penalized for kicking the football out of bounds), I like our kickoffs, and I like our punt return game much better than the NFL version of a free catch. Our punt return game is so much better than the NFL version. The NFL should also move the football back to create more kick returns - NFL kickers are now routinely kicking the football through the end zone.

The biggest change the NFL needs to make is to shorten the time between plays..its way too long and offences are lined up forever as the quarterback barks out signals and changes plays. Peyton Manning sounds like he is writing a story before each play.

For both the CFL and the NFL, I would like to see the elimination of kicking for the extra point and would prefer that in the CFL we line the football up at the 5 yard line (3 yard line for the NFL) and the offence has to rush or pass the football over the goal line for the extra point. The kick for an extra point is almost so automatic now that its anything but an exciting play. Changing the rule to force an offence to scroe from the 5 yard line would add more excitement to the product.

[South Pender]

I agree with some of what's been suggested. The reason the NFL moved the kickoff point to the 35 was to eliminate injuries sustained on kickoff returns. As you say, Blitz, most kickoffs now go for touchbacks, although you see a few returned if the ball comes down near the goal line. It's interesting that even with the 40/25 second game clock (40 seconds after end of last play; 25 seconds after some administrative time called) you do see teams run out of time and take a delay-of-game penalty. They are going to try out a 35/25 second game clock in this year's Pro Bowl, and we might see this become the rule in the future. I don't find the longer NFL clock distracting; it does, I suppose, give some advantage to the offense (more time to audible at the LOS, change plays, etc.).

As for punt returns, I've never liked the CFL's "no yards" penalty, mainly because it is often badly-called, with guys within 5-yards of the returner not being called, and guys more than 5 yards away getting flagged. I think the rouge is OK; it does add something to the Canadian game. However, I do think that there's really something to be gained in reconsidering the 1-pt. kicked convert. As it stands, it adds nothing to the game (although sj-roc makes some interesting points I hadn't thought of), being essentially automatic.

How about this: give the team that has scored a TD a different choice: (a) kick for one point, but from the 35 (ball snapped at the 28) or (b) run one normal play from the 4-yd.-line (CFL) or the 2-yd.-line (NFL - as it is now) for one point. My guess is that each would normally have about the same probability of success (although that could be debated), but wind and weather conditions might influence the decision.

[B.C.FAN]

Calgary kickers Rod Maver and Rene Paredes have come up with some thoughtful counter-arguments to the removal of the extra point. Some of Maver's points:

* The extra point is a microcosm of the importance of execution in football

* Eliminating the extra point means the disappearance of the strategy of going for the two-point convert late in the game

* Faking a one-point convert and going for two will no longer be possible

* The loss of the extra points at the grassroots would cost young kickers opportunities to develop and hone their technique and would ultimately lead to a decline in the quality of kickers at higher levels. “It would be a trickle-up effect,” said Maver

* At the pro level, not having the opportunity to kick extra points would negatively affect field-goal accuracy. “Extra points are a lower-pressure live reps within the game. It’s a chance for the kicker to get his rhythm,” explains Maver.Supporters of the extra point suggest talk about eliminating the play is a dangerous precedent of unnecessary tinkering.

cfl.ca article

The kicking game is one of the biggest assets of Canadian football. Big returns, blocked kicks, fake kicks and the strategy involved in kicking for one or two points or kicking for a single point help make the Canadian game much more wide open than its American counterpart, especially with new NFL rules designed to reduce the number of kickoffs that are returned. There are a lot of good arguments for keeping things the way they are.

[South Pender]

Calgary kickers Rod Maver and Rene Paredes have come up with some thoughtful counter-arguments to the removal of the extra point. Some of Maver's points:

* The extra point is a microcosm of the importance of execution in football

* Eliminating the extra point means the disappearance of the strategy of going for the two-point convert late in the game

* Faking a one-point convert and going for two will no longer be possible

* The loss of the extra points at the grassroots would cost young kickers opportunities to develop and hone their technique and would ultimately lead to a decline in the quality of kickers at higher levels. “It would be a trickle-up effect,” said Maver

* At the pro level, not having the opportunity to kick extra points would negatively affect field-goal accuracy. “Extra points are a lower-pressure live reps within the game. It’s a chance for the kicker to get his rhythm,” explains Maver.Supporters of the extra point suggest talk about eliminating the play is a dangerous precedent of unnecessary tinkering.

The kicking game is one of the biggest assets of Canadian football. Big returns, blocked kicks, fake kicks and the strategy involved in kicking for one or two points or kicking for a single point help make the Canadian game much more wide open than its American counterpart, especially with new NFL rules designed to reduce the number of kickoffs that are returned. There are a lot of good arguments for keeping things the way they are.

I guess it's not surprising that kickers would be against eliminating any part of the kicking game. But looking at the five points raised by Maver and Paredes, I'm not really convinced that they've made much of a case--and eliminating the automatic 1-pt. convert doesn't necessarily mean that kicking has been reduced (as per my comments above).

Point 1: The extra point being "a microcosm of the importance of execution in football" makes little sense on the face of it; I don't get that at all. It seems to me that any single play can be seen in this light.

Point 2: That's true, but a difference choice could be provided that would retain the excitement of a strategic decision having to be made after a TD.

Point 3: How often has this (faking a kick and going for two) actually ever happened--except, perhaps, when the snap is bobbled and no kick is possible?

Point 4: Why wouldn't practicing kicking field goals serve the same purpose in the development of young kickers?

Point 5: Is this necessarily bad? It could be argued that less certainty re field goals might add to the excitement of the game. However, I doubt that there's any evidence that field-goal accuracy is any lower in games with no TDs scored (with kicked converts) than in games where the kickers have had to kick converts.

In any case, elimination of the kicked convert doesn't appear to be imminent in the CFL, although I'd certainly like to see the league decision-makers give it serious thought.

[Hambone]

Other than watching Peyton, the 40 seconds is a boring facet of the NFL game that is insane.

I was at a Vikings game in Minneapolis back in '08. Out of curiosity for several plays I watched the 40 second clock then counted down to around where I figured a CFL official would signal in the 20 second clock. I found on most plays it was down close to 25 seconds when I thought the 20 CFL clock would've kicked in. Sometimes more, sometimes less. The difference between the NFL 40 second clock and CFL 20 second clock is not the 15 ticks the NFL detractors like to espouse. It probably averages around 5 to 6 seconds.