Riders vs. Lions, October 4th - Attendance/Seating

[B.C.FAN]

Adding to the transportation problem on Friday was the closure of the parking lots beside the Cambie Bridge at the west end of the stadium for construction. I've been regularly parking there this season at a cost of $25. Now with those lots closed, the Impark lot and the Edgewater Casino lot on Pacific Boulevard were charging $60. Because I was early, I was able to circle the staduim and find a small $20 lot just west of Costco. That one likely filled up well before game time.

[sj-roc]

Adding to the transportation problem on Friday was the closure of the parking lots beside the Cambie Bridge on the west end of the stadium for construction. I've been regularly parking there this season at a cost of $25. Now with those lots closed, the Impark lot and the Edgewater Casino lot on Pacific Boulevard were charging $60. Because I was early, I was able to circle the staduim and find a small $20 lot just west of Costco. That one likely filled up well before game time.

I thought this lot was already permanently closed some time ago for condo construction. Or am I thinking of a different one? I'm thinking where we used to have tailgates right next to the stadium, the lot over which the Cambie Bridge ramp passed.

I wonder how many parking spots there are to be had within a comfortable walk of the stadium. This excerpt from a 1982 Vancouver Sun article says there were 32,000 with 1 km in those days. Probably nowhere near this anymore.

[David]

On the flip side though sj-roc, how many thousands of Vancouverites can walk to a Lions' game from their condo? In 1983, there were maybe 40,000 people living in the West End and that was pretty much your lot. In the 30 years since, glass and steel highrises in the dowtown core have sprouted like mushrooms.


DH

[B.C.FAN]

Adding to the transportation problem on Friday was the closure of the parking lots beside the Cambie Bridge on the west end of the stadium for construction. I've been regularly parking there this season at a cost of $25. Now with those lots closed, the Impark lot and the Edgewater Casino lot on Pacific Boulevard were charging $60. Because I was early, I was able to circle the staduim and find a small $20 lot just west of Costco. That one likely filled up well before game time.

I thought this lot was already permanently closed some time ago for condo construction. Or am I thinking of a different one? I'm thinking where we used to have tailgates right next to the stadium, the lot over which the Cambie Bridge ramp passed.

That's the lot. It used to be an Impark lot but was run by another company this year. This was the first game since the lot was permanently closed. I have monthly parking six blocks away but for $20 or $25 I prefer the convenience of parking by the stadium. For $60, I'll walk six blocks.

[sj-roc]

On the flip side though sj-roc, how many thousands of Vancouverites can walk to a Lions' game from their condo? In 1983, there were maybe 40,000 people living in the West End and that was pretty much your lot. In the 30 years since, glass and steel highrises in the downtown core have sprouted like mushrooms.


DH

That's a good point, David. In fact, my recollection from looking at some of the 2011 census data upon its release was that the downtown area is actually (and by far) the fastest growing part of Vancouver proper, population-wise, but I wonder about the demographics of these newcomers. I suspect a lot are either immigrants or from other parts of the country and grew up without any loyalty to the Lions before moving here later in life. And while they can walk to a Lions' game from their condo, there are lots of other entertainment options also accessible within walking distance.

*shrug* I'm as regretful as anybody that the crowds aren't bigger. I try to consider it not in isolation but as part of a larger picture. We're not alone. I've read concert reviews in the Straight from critics who lament how some great bands are playing in half-empty bars and venues. The Waldorf closed earlier this year, presumably because it wasn't attracting enough clientele. PNE crowds were off in 2012, and down again this year in spite of cheaper tickets and parking; in a cost-cutting measure they even took the unprecedented step of closing on two of what have historically been its slowest days. I posted a G&M article here at least a year ago re: the shaky status of the Vancouver Playhouse Theatre. The economy has been off and people are tighter with their disposable dollars, but I wonder if there are also other factors at play that are putting a global chill on things. I've spoken before about the role the interconnectedness, not merely the size, of a community plays in determining broad social behaviours and I really believe there's something to this because Vancouver is lacking in this commodity.

Sorry if I'm coming off all doom and gloom here about this. But TBH it makes the Lions look like a thriving operation when you cast their lot against some of these other happenstances I've described.

[JohnHenry]

Brian W., guest columnist for the Province's "Fifth Quarter" wasn't too impressed with Lion's fans Friday night:

As much as I hate to admit it, it would appear the average Vancouver sports fan is there to watch the game, rather than be a factor in it, and that’s a shame. I really wish every fan that attends Lions games could watch a football game in Regina, or down the I-5 in Seattle to see and feel how a real football crowd can affect a game.

Perhaps Brian should check out the Seattle P.I. while he's down there to see how a "real" newspaper covers football. The P.I. has 10 Seahawk stories and links on the front page of their online sports section. Contrast that with the Province where the Lions are lucky to have one current story crack their front sports page. Perhaps if Brian and the Province did a better job in covering the Lions, like the Seattle P.I., they could create more fan interest?

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/10/06 ... -for-leos/

[notahomer]

Oh no, more debate on what a 'real' fan does I enjoy much of what Brian writes for the Province but not everyone wants to take in a game the way he does.

I appreciate each and every FAN (Rider, Lion or other) that was there. Enjoy the game as you would like. I'm sure there would have been more of you (based on comments made by some that tickets cost too much $$$). I woke up Saturday with a hoarse throat from screaming at the zebras and cheering/clapping when I could. As others have noted these kinds of BIG games are usually the kinds the Lions do not hold up their end and seem to not show up.

I certainly give Winnipeg a nod over Vancouver in terms of how the football is covered in the media. I love the job Mike B and Lowell U. do for their papers. I am just a selfish LIons fan, I want more and will devour it if provided but that is not Mike's, Lowell or Brian's problem. Bottom line, IMO, is the market says Canucks and Canucks it shall be.....

[TheLionKing]

Brian W., guest columnist for the Province's "Fifth Quarter" wasn't too impressed with Lion's fans Friday night:

As much as I hate to admit it, it would appear the average Vancouver sports fan is there to watch the game, rather than be a factor in it, and that’s a shame. I really wish every fan that attends Lions games could watch a football game in Regina, or down the I-5 in Seattle to see and feel how a real football crowd can affect a game.

Perhaps Brian should check out the Seattle P.I. while he's down there to see how a "real" newspaper covers football. The P.I. has 10 Seahawk stories and links on the front page of their online sports section. Contrast that with the Province where the Lions are lucky to have one current story crack their front sports page. Perhaps if Brian and the Province did a better job in covering the Lions, like the Seattle P.I., they could create more fan interest?

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/10/06 ... -for-leos/

Works both ways. There was nothing to get the fans excited about. Numerous 2 and outs, lack of a running game, the few times they did ran it was between the tackles for 2 yards, offensive line manhandled by the Riders d-line, DeMarco getting sacked.

[sj-roc]

I don't really care to get into the politics of what constitutes "real" fandom, but I think Brian has a point. Crowds @BCP have demonstrated that they are both inclined and capable of making noise. It's just that it's not always as effectively harnessed as it could be. So while we're on offence we get some fans starting the wave or taking the bait on rogue chants of "let's go (visitors)" with "let's go Lions".

Re: degree of media coverage, I don't think writers have much control over this. They just generate the content they're assigned to generate and someone higher up the food chain decides where it all goes online. I'm sure every writer would love to have their latest article as the top story on their paper's website if they had their way.

[sj-roc]

Brian W., guest columnist for the Province's "Fifth Quarter" wasn't too impressed with Lion's fans Friday night:

As much as I hate to admit it, it would appear the average Vancouver sports fan is there to watch the game, rather than be a factor in it, and that’s a shame. I really wish every fan that attends Lions games could watch a football game in Regina, or down the I-5 in Seattle to see and feel how a real football crowd can affect a game.

Perhaps Brian should check out the Seattle P.I. while he's down there to see how a "real" newspaper covers football. The P.I. has 10 Seahawk stories and links on the front page of their online sports section. Contrast that with the Province where the Lions are lucky to have one current story crack their front sports page. Perhaps if Brian and the Province did a better job in covering the Lions, like the Seattle P.I., they could create more fan interest?

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2013/10/06 ... -for-leos/

Works both ways. There was nothing to get the fans excited about. Numerous 2 and outs, lack of a running game, the few times they did ran it was between the tackles for 2 yards, offensive line manhandled by the Riders d-line, DeMarco getting sacked.

I think your point is valid, TLK, but at cross purposes to Brian's. What you describe is reactive cheering in response to plays that go our way, while it seems like he's referring to pro-active cheering to disrupt the other team's offence ("be a factor in it"). It's true that there may not have have been much of the former, and for good reason. But this is an entirely different matter from the latter point. Though I suppose a lack of things to cheer about reactively might in turn discourage one from cheering pro-actively. This might be the case here. He acknowledged in the article that such pro-active cheering was well done in past home games (wins).

[Heathcliff]

I think there are a lot of great points being made in this discussion, and I'm particularly intrigued by reports of smaller crowd sizes across the board for concerts, PNE, etc. I've thought for quite some time that HD broadcasts really cut in to people's desire to watch the game live, since you actually feel closer to the action watching on TV in HD. Add to that the many other forms of home entertainment now available to people (video games, internet, hundreds of TV channels) and it's not surprising to hear crowds are shrinking.

As far as Pro-active cheering versus Reactive cheering goes, I was at this game and there is only so much proactive cheering you can realistically expect from a crowd when fans are continually having the wind taken out of their sails by penalties, bad calls, non calls, scoring drives killed by interceptions and general lacklustre play on both sides of the ball but especially on offence.

From what I recall, the crowd had good energy to start the game, but after the first quarter the Lions could never get any momentum going, and that affects the crowd. I'm sure there are markets where the crowd may have been louder, but realistically, every visiting team wants to take the crowd out of the game and this time the Riders were pretty successful. I was really disappointed in the effort that the Lions showed this game when there was a large crowd on hand. A lot of people are going to think twice about taking the time and expense to come to a game next time, and I can't really blame them.

[notahomer]

I have to admit I enjoy road games too. Brian usually frames these as "off the couch" articles. IIRC, he/I share some common ideas. I hate GreyCup/Superbowl Parties. Before the game? FINE. But for a big game, I prefer to be off by myself to watch the game. I decide whats on the menu, I unplug the phone etc....

Now home games are totally different ballgame, literally. I get there early and leave late. I am not always a big cheerleader. I certainly don't get all excited try to catch some freebie football. Lots of the game day stuff is fun and entertaining, IMO.

A couple things that really seem all over the place this season in terms of game day stuff, IMO. Besides the play of the team on the field?

1. the replays. I missed lots of plays I would have liked to see replayed. It is one of the benefits of staying at home watching on the HI-DEF. I love the stadium but I really wish they'd be better at showing us the play that just happened. I want to see it. Incomplete pass? Run stuffed at the line? Pass Interference call or non-call? SHOW THEM ALL, please. I WHINE ABOUT THIS EVERY YEAR, it seems to get a bit better and then it gets bad again....just my

2. the stats. again, some games have been bang on with updated ribbons etc... Other games not so much. This past Rider game they even announced they weren't sure about the actual game clock, so they obviously had a lot on their plate...

[David]

As far as Pro-active cheering versus Reactive cheering goes, I was at this game and there is only so much proactive cheering you can realistically expect from a crowd when fans are continually having the wind taken out of their sails by penalties, bad calls, non calls, scoring drives killed by interceptions and general lacklustre play on both sides of the ball but especially on offence.

From what I recall, the crowd had good energy to start the game, but after the first quarter the Lions could never get any momentum going, and that affects the crowd. I'm sure there are markets where the crowd may have been louder, but realistically, every visiting team wants to take the crowd out of the game and this time the Riders were pretty successful. I was really disappointed in the effort that the Lions showed this game when there was a large crowd on hand. A lot of people are going to think twice about taking the time and expense to come to a game next time, and I can't really blame them.

Vancouver is no different than any other market in which the home team lays an egg. Fans are fans. They're going to cheer much louder and be more "into the game" when things are going the home team's way. You can't tell me there weren't large stretches of the Leos' road game in Regina 2 weeks ago when Mosaic was uncharacteristically quiet. DeMarco, for the most part, did not have any difficulty in the huddle and at the LOS.

It certainly wasn't "library" quiet at BC Place Friday night either, even when they were continually coughing up fur balls. But the players have to hold up their end of the bargain too, and that was more than a loss. It was a stinker.


DH

[Robbie]

When it comes to demographics and crowds (specifically the recent immigrants) it's always a sensitive issue and as some of you had indicated, it hasn't increased attendance much. We all know that Greater Vancouver has a huge SE Asian immigrant community, but American football isn't really engrained in their culture. Going further, affirmative action hasn't been doing much for that either as I indicated before, I've never seen the Thunderbirds or Clansmen approaching Asian student clubs and encouraging them to try out more sports teams including football and it looks like it's going to be a long while before you see another Chinese-Canadian like the now-retired Bryan Chiu in the CFL.

Perhaps another market research is....what causes a city to have INCREASING attendance and is it something that the city of Vancouver and the BC Lions can learn from?

1. While it's decreasing somewhat now perhaps because of its poor performance by their Eskimos, Edmonton had the highest attendance in the league for many years. What does Edmonton have that Vancouver does not have?

2. While Regina is certainly a smaller Canadian city, its Roughriders have increased attendance by breaking 35,000 several times and broke 40,000 twice.

3. Conversely....Toronto is the most populous city and its Argonauts are the defending Grey Cup champions, so what could explain the fact that they only got ~18,000 attendance twice already this season? If you are the Argonauts marketing manager, what would you do to increase attendance the same way the city of Regina has been able to successfully? Obviously, it requires more than just simply having a good team on the field.

[almo89]

When it comes to demographics and crowds (specifically the recent immigrants) it's always a sensitive issue and as some of you had indicated, it hasn't increased attendance much. We all know that Greater Vancouver has a huge SE Asian immigrant community, but American football isn't really engrained in their culture. Going further, affirmative action hasn't been doing much for that either as I indicated before, I've never seen the Thunderbirds or Clansmen approaching Asian student clubs and encouraging them to try out more sports teams including football and it looks like it's going to be a long while before you see another Chinese-Canadian like the now-retired Bryan Chiu in the CFL.

Perhaps another market research is....what causes a city to have INCREASING attendance and is it something that the city of Vancouver and the BC Lions can learn from?

1. While it's decreasing somewhat now perhaps because of its poor performance by their Eskimos, Edmonton had the highest attendance in the league for many years. What does Edmonton have that Vancouver does not have?

2. While Regina is certainly a smaller Canadian city, its Roughriders have increased attendance by breaking 35,000 several times and broke 40,000 twice.

3. Conversely....Toronto is the most populous city and its Argonauts are the defending Grey Cup champions, so what could explain the fact that they only got ~18,000 attendance twice already this season? If you are the Argonauts marketing manager, what would you do to increase attendance the same way the city of Regina has been able to successfully? Obviously, it requires more than just simply having a good team on the field.

A lot of my friends that I grew up with were asian and mostly from Hong Kong since it was easier for me to get along with people that spoke Cantonese. None of them watch or care about american football. They immigrated here knowing more about soccer and basketball, but they seemed to have no problem jumping on the Canucks bandwagon anytime they are hot. Never for the BC Lions though.