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OK...I was taught by nuns in grade school... and then taught by priests in high school. So this is just for fun. You won't burn in hell...that's just a choice given to the devout...haha

Pick the pope contest. Here are your contenders.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013 ... nders.html

I like Ravasi. He's as progressive as you're going to get.(in terms of who they'll vote for)
But if I could choose...it would be Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle of the Philippines. Young and open to change.

They need a pope who can lead them to the left. Not so far as to cause an internal revolt but someone who can take a look at the state of the Catholic Church in the world today and make some meaningful steps to modernizing the faith to meets today's complexities.

If it were me, I would deal with the following issues in the following ways.

Homosexuality - the church would be wise to just let this one alone instead of making pronouncements on the inherent evil of homosexuality. The church can take the position that they don't approve of it and leave it at that. Leave the sin and immorality talk behind. Homosexuality has existed for as long as mankind has and will continue to do so. Trying to stop it is like trying to hold back the wind. Smarter not to try.

Birth Control, Abortion - probably one of the stickiest wickets for the church, they can't condone and can't ignore either. Probably one of the biggest single reasons that the Church has lost so much steam over the years especially in the industrialized world. The best that they can probably do on this one is state their overall position on the matter and leave the morality wrestling to their actual parishioners. After all, the church is supposed to be above all else and educator as to what their version of god and heaven and the bible is supposed to be. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. In other words, educate and encourage people to do what the church believes which would include monogamy, sex only after marriage and so on. Don't threaten and bully and understand that it isn't practical for most families to have 12 kids. Live with it and maybe leave possible retribution for sin to others. isn't it God who is supposed to judge?

Sexual Abuse - This one is simple, DON"T tolerate it! No more shuffling and concealing, how about reporting it to the authorities and supporting those who have been victimized. Kick out members who have committed these acts and don't let them back in under any circumstances. Commit to complete rejection of misconduct. If they want to support ex-clergy, support them by getting them the help they need and protecting other young persons from being victims.

Women and the church - time for the stodgy old men to come to grips with the idea that women can be ambassadors for God too! My goodness, power issues aside, they are still clinging to the Genesis idea that women are inherently the path to evil and sin. Get with the program. If the church can somehow manage to tolerate and shield priests sexually and physically abusing children, then they can find a way to bring women into the equation. If they want to look progressive, then here is the opportunity that even the Church of England recently looked foolish on by rejecting the idea that women can have roles of authority within the church.

I anxiously await the Catholic church's tweet announcing their new pope.

Wait... what's that? **Smoke signals**? Feh.

Check out the Malachy Prophecies.

If true - the next Pope will call himself Petrus Romanus - so get ready for Pope Peter. Don't royal families change their names too if the monarch? Like we won't know who they were before?!!

http://www.bibleprobe.com/last10popes.htm

PETER THE ROMAN - The 112th prophesy states: "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End." The last pope may just cut Catholics loose from unity and the papacy, causing total disruption and confusion. See Saint Francis of Assissi's 13th century prophecy below. It is believed the next pope will

Loved the defense today by the priest on CNN with Cooper 360 who said something like 'it is only 4%' who abuse children. Not the best sound bite. The matter of how they have handled if in a bank would be deemed systematic, a conspiracy of silence and cover up. The LA Cardinal settlement just now of $10 million is just a small part. One defense was this Cardinal writing that he did not know what to do with these offending priests. While to me it is simple. You call the cops. You address it and then for the future look at the kind of culture that is letting this happen.

Well there are some issues for the Church.

Premarital sex

Sex for pleasure or health vs pregnancy in marriage

Sex abuse by priests

Homosexuality tolerance or intolerance

Covering up sex abuse, or ignoring it (which is the same thing)

Marriage for priests

Celibacy for priests

Relevance in the modern world

Abortion

Planned parenthood

Control by fear and manipulation

For all religions, intolerance of other religions

History of violence and intolerance

Tolerance of various governments throughout history
................

And I am not being overly critical. Nothing calms like prayer.
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Re the Pope ... How about the Cardinal from Quebec? But it will probably be one from Europe.

jcalhoun wrote:Hey all,

.....

I mention these things only to set up how much I dislike Catholicism. I could go on and on and on citing their worst excesses; so could anyone that has read any history or a newspaper in the last few decades. But these excesses and abuses don't mean that Catholics are 1). bad people, 2). wrong, or 3). need to reform their beliefs because of the behaviour of some people in the Catholic church. The Catholic church has a lot of problems to deal with, but their problems don't mean they should abandon Catholic teaching, and I find it amusing when all the media pundits suggest the church needs to become more 'progressive'. It really doesn't. We're mostly progressive around here I gather, whether we're right or left: we probably all agree about birth control, abortion (even if we have reservations about it), pre-marital sex, homosexuality being biological, not sinful, etc. But if the Catholic church suddenly reverses their long-held positions on these, and other issues (women in the church, celibacy) they'll cease to be the Catholic church. There are 1.2 billion Catholics, and they have a tradition going back about 2100 years. They don't need to accomodate our current first-world political trends; in fact, a very strong argument can be made for them to become more strict in their teaching to ensure their survival.

Look at what has happened to western progressive churches, specifically the Anglican, Presbyterian & United churches. These churches are dying because they don't really believe in Christian teaching anymore; they have abandoned it for something more atuned to current political winds, less than "eternal" religious truths. Western Protestants have abandoned these churches for more stident evangelical churches or agnosticism/atheism. Should the Catholic church become more progressive, it will likely suffer the same fate of their Protestant peers, becoming less and less relative to the lives of their parishioners.

That'd be a shame. Catholicism is central to a lot of great and good people, and because it is, I don't want to see it become something less. There are plenty of places & instuitions where one can be a progressive; there is only one where a person can be Catholic.

I don't care who becomes Pope, but I'd like to see someone with integrity and honour and wisdom that can make Catholics proud, and help them lead good, productive lives on their own terms. What I do wonder about is what will happen to the political climate in Quebec if Cardinal Oulette becomes the next pope. Will Quebecers flock back to the church? If they do, how will that impact the post-Quiet Revolution generation, and thus confederation?

Cheers,

James

considering your first few paragraphs, I am in awe of the incredible wisdom you went on to express. So few people, even inside the church, get that the message of the church, the bible, Jesus, is for all time, never to change because the world changes but to remain steadfast in the face of adversity and even persecution.

as a protestant with pentacostal and baptist leanings, there is much about the catholic church I disagree with, but it is always because of the corruptabily of man, even within the church, not because of the message or the faith or the truth about God, Jesus and the bible. The same can also be said of protestant church through the ages as well. I do however have great respect for the foundation and reverance of the Catholic church among the faithful. Those who truly walk the path that Christ told us to, with love for him and his word and their fellow man, are people I put much value on, be they catholic or protestant.

those who are so quick to find fault with christianity, either protestant or catholic, need to learn the difference between the institution of the church, which will always be subject to possible corruption, and the spiritual body of christs church which is holy, led by God, and unjudgable by man. The word of God is for all time unles and until he chooses to change any of it.

The one possible problem I see about the Pope is I beleive that the Catholic believe in the supposed infallibility of the Pope. However, the Pope is just another hopefully faithful man, led by God to do a job he was chosen by God to do. He MUST adhere to Gods word and instruction and laws and commandments regardless of how unpopular the rest of the world may find it. Yet even in his efforts to do so, he is still a man, subject to the same weakness as many of the prophets and men of God in the bible. One Can only hope that in the end, God will be able to say to him, Well done good and faithful servant.

Catholicism is so outdated that it's irrelevant to most people.

TheLionKing wrote:Catholicism is so outdated that it's irrelevant to most people.

Last night one of the Vancouver supper hour news stations ran a poll vis a vis a Canadian pope. 1)Yes 2) No or 3)Not Interested.

68% voted Not Interested. Yet the MSM blabs on and on about this nonsense.

White smoke at the Vatican now.

Let's see who the new Pope is, and what Papal name he will adopt.

Maybe the Sistine Chapel is going up in flames.

In the end, it was not an American or a Canadian, but rather Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Argentina. The first non-European pope in the modern era.
And his papal name will be Pope Francis I.

Not surprised that it wasn't a North American. At least it seems as though they have chosen someone who is very humble both in personality and behaviour. Because he was born in Italy, they kind of got Pope and Pasta too. 400 plus years of Italian popes followed by 3 who aren't.

Glad it's over and done with. Tired of all the speculation as to who are the front runners etc.

Sadly this institution is failing its people (and the world) and if it were a business it'd be deemed full of systematic corruption for the way it has mishandled their sex abuse scandals. Loved Fr. Ed Beck - 'it's only 4%' defense but that 4% too much for people in trust positions.

It is an important influence on gov'ts too the world over - The Phillipines is a good example where they have not benefited by Church teachings nor decades of past corrupt gov'ts so much of their educated talent (univ grads) are overseas in Hong Kong, Canada working as for. domestic house helpers. The whole debacle on contraception and freedom of choice has led to suffering - yet no movement on their doctrines despite one of the major death rate causes for young girls in these countries has been back street abortions.

Some years ago I had the opportunity to speak at an event in the Nishga Nation where we first lunched with Chief Joe Gosnell. One of the band officials (non-Nishga but native) was telling me that the Nishga bands were so much off the off beaten track with no roads that they fared better from the debacle the Christian churches vested on native Indians in Canada and certainly BC was no exception.

Not much chance this institution will change as it is less understanding of the problems in the world and that they have endemic in their institutions and traditions to care to fix things.