The Old 4 Discussion

[Blue In BC]

I think Wally is going to have the off season talk with both Bruce and Simon as he looks to upgrade the slots with faster and younger. I suspect Bruce will be released but Simon, in the respect he deserves, will be given a softer landing with a reduced pay, reduced playing time option. I don't know if Simon is ready to go for that idea, he (and Suits) still thinks he can play at a high level and if another GM agrees you very well may see 81 in a different uniform next season.
Another option for Bruce is he could fill in for P.Jackson as the pat-on-the-back-sideline-guy.

Ratio may eliminate a sideline back up role for Bruce. 46 man insurance maybe. I do think he might be a better tougher inside guy than Simon if that's a role the Lions need to fill.

Teams have been finding very good young inexpensive receivers. What teams might have interest for Simon if he parts ways with the LIons? None that I can think of based on a probable higher cost for a guy that won't likely start elsewhere??

[JohnHenry]

Speaking of Lulay's health: One factor in Travis' performance on Sunday, it was reported early last week that he was suffering from a "head flu". We don't know if he had fully recovered from that, or perhaps was on anti-histamines...in combination with possibly pain-killers and localized freezing for his shoulder (as he said they'd do for his previous start?) Travis did seem a little off, especially to start the game, which might go beyond a sore shoulder.

Everyone was raving about Arland last year, his sure hands, great route running, great blocking downfield (and in the backfield on Sunday when he knocked a blitzing LB on his backside)...but now he's so old and slow he can't get open and is hindering the offence? (and diminishing Lulay's confidence level?) C'mon...if Arland and Geroy are that bad and slow, why keep them around at all in any capacity? Then who'd be our slotbacks, maybe Gore, maybe Moore and maybe they can find somebody else who can catch...or maybe not?

[pennw]

Maybe Wally can entice Geroy with some sort of transition into coaching type position that would help get him retired .

The reduced role thing really makes no sense . He's an import , unlike P. Jack .
To give a back-up spot to an import is really a waste of a spot . Import receivers got to produce , and Geroy was in major decline this season and will be even more so next year .

The guys behind him on the roster are all at this point, better receivers now . It clearly showed what was missing when Simon and Bruce were both out , suddenly our offense was much more explosive . Would have been better for BC had Simon and Bruce not made it back in time for the West Final . BC was better on Offense with Taylor and Moore both starting .

In the West final , in desperation time who was it Lulay looked for when the game was on the line ? Geroy? Bruce ? No - Nick Moore and probably wishing he saw Taylor out there too .

[Hambone]

[album][/album]One of my fears as a fan is watching my team try to squeeze one too many years out of too many players at the same time. BC is largely a veteran team. There is a fine line between being a veteran team and being an old team. The problem with older players isn't as much whether or not they can be "productive". For the team to have success they have to be productuve or better than productive for all 18 games.

Geroy may be a great example of how the passions of the fan can muddle the reality. Some look at 2012 as the anomole. Perhaps though it was 2011. His numbers had slid a bit in 2009 & 2010. They were the lowest of his career since 2003 when he blossomed into the explosive player have all come to know and appreciate. Was 2012 the start of a great player's decline or was it really started in 2009 with a brief resurgance in 2011? Right now Geroy is one of the highest paid receivers in the league. You don't pay receivers top dollar to be "productive". You pay them top dollar to be difference makers and game breakers. Already 37 I would suggest Simon's days as a difference maker are behind him. That becomes the conondrum Bouno and Benevides have to deal with. He does still bring value, but what is the fair salary value for that? Those are the tough questions Buono and Benevudes have to answer when dealing with such a tender issue.

[B.C.FAN]

One of my fears as a fan is watching my team try to squeeze one too many years out of too many players at the same time. BC is largely a veteran team. There is a fine line between being a veteran team and being an old team. The problem with older players isn't as much whether or not they can be "productive". For the team to have success they have to be productuve or better than productive for all 18 games.

Geroy may be a great example of how the passions of the fan can muddle the reality. Some look at 2012 as the anomole. Perhaps though it was 2011. His numbers had slid a bit in 2009 & 2010. They were the lowest of his career since 2003 when he blossomed into the explosive player have all come to know and appreciate. Was 2012 the start of a great player's decline or was it really started in 2009 with a brief resurgance in 2011? Right now Geroy is one of the highest paid receivers in the league. You don't pay receivers top dollar to be "productive". You pay them top dollar to be difference makers and game breakers. Already 37 I would suggest Simon's days as a difference maker are behind him. That becomes the conondrum Bouno and Benevides have to deal with. He does still bring value, but what is the fair salary value for that? Those are the tough questions Buono and Benevudes have to answer when dealing with such a tender issue.

Geroy is under contract and says he's coming back next year. I suspect Wally will have a different idea. When healthy, Simon was on pace for close to 1,000 yards but his lack of explosiveness (only 2 long receptions this year after 9 last year), injury problems and high salary make him a roster liability. It's time to bow out gracefully.

[Rammer]

One of my fears as a fan is watching my team try to squeeze one too many years out of too many players at the same time. BC is largely a veteran team. There is a fine line between being a veteran team and being an old team. The problem with older players isn't as much whether or not they can be "productive". For the team to have success they have to be productuve or better than productive for all 18 games.

Geroy may be a great example of how the passions of the fan can muddle the reality. Some look at 2012 as the anomole. Perhaps though it was 2011. His numbers had slid a bit in 2009 & 2010. They were the lowest of his career since 2003 when he blossomed into the explosive player have all come to know and appreciate. Was 2012 the start of a great player's decline or was it really started in 2009 with a brief resurgance in 2011? Right now Geroy is one of the highest paid receivers in the league. You don't pay receivers top dollar to be "productive". You pay them top dollar to be difference makers and game breakers. Already 37 I would suggest Simon's days as a difference maker are behind him. That becomes the conondrum Bouno and Benevides have to deal with. He does still bring value, but what is the fair salary value for that? Those are the tough questions Buono and Benevudes have to answer when dealing with such a tender issue.

Geroy is under contract and says he's coming back next year. I suspect Wally will have a different idea. When healthy, Simon was on pace for close to 1,000 yards but his lack of explosiveness (only 2 long receptions this year after 9 last year), injury problems and high salary make him a roster liability. It's time to bow out gracefully.

I understand what you are suggesting, but with a major record on the horizon, I think that Geroy will accept a reduced role with the club and we will see number 81 continue in orange for 2013.

[Hambone]

I understand what you are suggesting, but with a major record on the horizon, I think that Geroy will accept a reduced role with the club and we will see number 81 continue in orange for 2013.

I think there is a right price where it makes sense for Simon to return. I thinl Buono would be discussing a sugnificantly reduced base pay but with incentives. If Geroy is willing to accept such a situation then he will be back. If not????? Let's not forget Buono had to deal with a similar situation several years ago with another future Hall of Famer in Allen Pitts and he didn't have an SMS to further complicate the issue. It can't be fun being on either side of the table.

[WestCoastJoe]

It's not fun being on either side of the table. True, Hambone.

But Wally and Geroy have been through many high achievements together. There is one helluva lot of respect between them. They both know, through and through, that this is a business. Wally never forgets that. And Geroy knows his legacy is already in place.

Only a couple of factors will lead Geroy to really push to return. Financial, of course. And just the reluctance for any pro athlete to hang 'em up. Pursuit of another record might also weigh in, but that is not worth anything IMO ...

My guess ... Wally ultimately offers Geroy a reduced role, and a reduced salary. I see no reason for Geroy to turn it down. If he does, then I doubt he will picked up by another team.

I think PMc will be released. But not too far from the phone, if O'Neill gets nicked.

I expect Arland will be released. An essential part of our push to the Cup last year. But ineffective this year IMO.

Dunno about Angus Reid. We probably need him. The cupboard is just bare. After 10 years of NI drafts, years to train and develop young players, time to build a solid roster, the depth and talent is just not there in the NI O Line. Reid started with the Alouettes. Newman with the Stampeders. We drafted JonHR who has been full value, but usually injured. Valli has been a huge disappointment, virtually a bust. Baboulas must not be highly regarded as he never gets a chance. Norman has been a find, and we will see how he develops under Dorazio, or if he backslides. I posted one time a list of all the NI O Linemen drafted in Dorazio's ten years here; it is a huge list. This poor state of affairs has to be on Dan Dorazio IMO ...

New link ...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26560

[TheLionKing]

I think it's easy to pin the blame on Dorazio for not developing Canadian linemen. Perhaps, just perhaps it's the drafting. You can't make silk purses out of sow's ear

[WestCoastJoe]

I think it's easy to pin the blame on Dorazio for not developing Canadian linemen. Perhaps, just perhaps it's the drafting. You can't make silk purses out of sow's ear

Dorazio has to be part of the draft process for O Linemen. If he is not, there is something very, very wrong. No way they draft an O Lineman without his input.

And as BCFAN points out, guys like Andrew Jones and Justin Sorensen are not found wanting with other clubs.

And who could forget Dorazio after drafting Dean Valli. "He's got good girth." He knew what they were getting. He was all over that draft process.

Just IMO ...

[Upper Bowl]

It's been funny seeing all of the anti-Dorazio comments on the board the last few months. Earlier this year, Giulio and Burns were saying on 1040 they thought he was the best position coach in the league. I'm not sure about that, but I'm also not sure he deserves all of the criticism he's received here. Sure, he's paid to make players better, but it seems like another case of the old chicken salad argument. I think DD should be given credit for the way he resurrected Kabongo this season, because I thought he was done!

I'm not sure Geroy would take a reduced role and pay at this point. He was fairly indignant when talking to reporters during the locker room clean-out yesterday.
Whatever the case, I'm okay if the Lions send him packing.

[TheLionKing]

I'm not sure Geroy would take a reduced role and pay at this point. He was fairly indignant when talking to reporters during the locker room clean-out yesterday.
Whatever the case, I'm okay if the Lions send him packing.

I will he will accept a reduced role and pay to remain a Lion. Reality speaks louder than words.