Lions 29 - Argonauts 16 Post Game Stats and Comments

[Lion Guy]

It is interesting how long it sometimes takes Wally to get his personnel right.

How many guys has he tried at safety since Barron Miles retired?

And meantime, there was Cauchy Muamba, great athlete, played safety in college, sitting on the PR, and on STs.

J.R. LaRose is a great character guy, but he is as fragile as Sami Salo. Sanchez. Phillips. Hyland. Arakgi. Tad Crawford. But no, we have to follow that blueprint that was so good for almost 20 years: Make them put in time on the PR and on STs. (I wonder how long Barron Miles and Mike Benevides have been saying to Wally that we have the right guy. Let's give him a chance.)

Wally still insists on making guys die on the PR for far too long. At least he is getting Iannuzzi involved early this year. Last year he failed to get any live receiver reps for Shawn Gore or Akeem Foster. Then we throw them to the wolves this year, with no catches previously, plus 2 imports to boot. And I won't buy any argument that says: "Well look at them now." What I see is the green as grass guys at the start of the year, when we went 1 and 6, dropping balls all over the place.

Ah well. We are as good as our last game. Two games in fact. Beating up teams in disarray, but victory still tastes sweet.

Bring on the Stamps. Bring on the Alouettes. Ummmm well I guess we get to beat up on Braley East one more time, first. And at new B.C. Place. Awesome. Should be an amazing atmosphere. Kind of like the original opening back in the 1980s.
..............

Watched a bit of that Argo documentary after the game. Barker's words ring kind of hollow. Just the same way his team is playing. You can see the guys giving the blank look as he talks.

It looks like Barker totally mishandled Cleo Lemon all along the way. Lemon was laughing on the sideline at Bell's interceptions. Chris Schultz really called him out on TV after the game.

I swear that if you ever won the lottery worth $15 million you would b***h because last week it was $20 million.

[WestCoastJoe]

It is interesting how long it sometimes takes Wally to get his personnel right.

How many guys has he tried at safety since Barron Miles retired?

And meantime, there was Cauchy Muamba, great athlete, played safety in college, sitting on the PR, and on STs.

J.R. LaRose is a great character guy, but he is as fragile as Sami Salo. Sanchez. Phillips. Hyland. Arakgi. Tad Crawford. But no, we have to follow that blueprint that was so good for almost 20 years: Make them put in time on the PR and on STs. (I wonder how long Barron Miles and Mike Benevides have been saying to Wally that we have the right guy. Let's give him a chance.)

Wally still insists on making guys die on the PR for far too long. At least he is getting Iannuzzi involved early this year. Last year he failed to get any live receiver reps for Shawn Gore or Akeem Foster. Then we throw them to the wolves this year, with no catches previously, plus 2 imports to boot. And I won't buy any argument that says: "Well look at them now." What I see is the green as grass guys at the start of the year, when we went 1 and 6, dropping balls all over the place.

Ah well. We are as good as our last game. Two games in fact. Beating up teams in disarray, but victory still tastes sweet.

Bring on the Stamps. Bring on the Alouettes. Ummmm well I guess we get to beat up on Braley East one more time, first. And at new B.C. Place. Awesome. Should be an amazing atmosphere. Kind of like the original opening back in the 1980s.
..............

Watched a bit of that Argo documentary after the game. Barker's words ring kind of hollow. Just the same way his team is playing. You can see the guys giving the blank look as he talks.

It looks like Barker totally mishandled Cleo Lemon all along the way. Lemon was laughing on the sideline at Bell's interceptions. Chris Schultz really called him out on TV after the game.

I swear that if you ever won the lottery worth $15 million you would b***h because last week it was $20 million.

Hey, enjoy the game. I enjoyed it immensely.

Don't bother to read my posts. And I won't bother to read yours.

And I don't worry about money either.

By the way, order another one.

[Lion Guy]

It is interesting how long it sometimes takes Wally to get his personnel right.

How many guys has he tried at safety since Barron Miles retired?

And meantime, there was Cauchy Muamba, great athlete, played safety in college, sitting on the PR, and on STs.

J.R. LaRose is a great character guy, but he is as fragile as Sami Salo. Sanchez. Phillips. Hyland. Arakgi. Tad Crawford. But no, we have to follow that blueprint that was so good for almost 20 years: Make them put in time on the PR and on STs. (I wonder how long Barron Miles and Mike Benevides have been saying to Wally that we have the right guy. Let's give him a chance.)

Wally still insists on making guys die on the PR for far too long. At least he is getting Iannuzzi involved early this year. Last year he failed to get any live receiver reps for Shawn Gore or Akeem Foster. Then we throw them to the wolves this year, with no catches previously, plus 2 imports to boot. And I won't buy any argument that says: "Well look at them now." What I see is the green as grass guys at the start of the year, when we went 1 and 6, dropping balls all over the place.

Ah well. We are as good as our last game. Two games in fact. Beating up teams in disarray, but victory still tastes sweet.

Bring on the Stamps. Bring on the Alouettes. Ummmm well I guess we get to beat up on Braley East one more time, first. And at new B.C. Place. Awesome. Should be an amazing atmosphere. Kind of like the original opening back in the 1980s.
..............

Watched a bit of that Argo documentary after the game. Barker's words ring kind of hollow. Just the same way his team is playing. You can see the guys giving the blank look as he talks.

It looks like Barker totally mishandled Cleo Lemon all along the way. Lemon was laughing on the sideline at Bell's interceptions. Chris Schultz really called him out on TV after the game.

I swear that if you ever won the lottery worth $15 million you would b***h because last week it was $20 million.

Hey, enjoy the game. I enjoyed it immensely.

Don't bother to read my posts. And I won't bother to read yours.

And I don't worry about money either.

By the way, order another one.

Order another what amigo?

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=375048

Wally Buono, the Lions head coach/GM, praised his defence for its stellar performance.

"Our defence, when it can do the things we want it do to -- which is rush the four guys and change up the coverages and occasionally add some pressures -- it does put a lot of pressure on the offence," he said. "We were good that way and tonight the guys did a good job of hawking the ball, which makes a big difference.

"When you can get turnovers and pressure on the quarterback with four guys, it does put pressure on the other team."

Yep. Front 4 are putting on great pressure. Some nice blitzes by Banks and company also. Ballhawks at DB level. Phillips may have found a new home on the corner.

I am very happy Cauchy Muamba got a chance to start. He is big, fast, athletic and played safety in college, unlike some other conversion attempts we have tried.
.....

I am amazed how agile Akeem Foster is for a huge guy. After the catch, guys keep bouncing off him too. That long 54 yard catch was truly outstanding. Great reaction to the ball. Really great hands. Body control. Tried to get up and run too. Sudden super star in the making. His hands look like giant suction cups.

[Rammer]

I don't see what Barker sees in Cleo Lemon. This guy played in the NFL ?? After he was pulled, he was standing at the end of the bench by himself rather than offering some help to his replacement. Hardly a team player.

After the halftime emotional tirade by Barker he may not have felt like he was part of the team....just thinking out loud on that.

[WestCoastJoe]

I don't see what Barker sees in Cleo Lemon. This guy played in the NFL ?? After he was pulled, he was standing at the end of the bench by himself rather than offering some help to his replacement. Hardly a team player.

After the halftime emotional tirade by Barker he may not have felt like he was part of the team....just thinking out loud on that.

Yeah, it is weird. Barker has been pretty much throwing him under the bus. Maybe he is a sulky guy anyway. Who knows?

[Toppy Vann]

I don't see what Barker sees in Cleo Lemon. This guy played in the NFL ?? After he was pulled, he was standing at the end of the bench by himself rather than offering some help to his replacement. Hardly a team player.

After the halftime emotional tirade by Barker he may not have felt like he was part of the team....just thinking out loud on that.

Maybe true but he is supposed to be a professional and there you have to suck it up and deal with it like a man. He is not a young QB and while it was not all his fault their O was going badly he has to learn to handle it better and still do his job like help out the other QB even if he hates that.

Dunigan on the panel said that he has seen this at the Argos practice - the QB division.

I like Jock Climie and his banter as he makes that panel even better not just on football but on his style. I like Stegall too. It would be good if they were all on there somehow as each of them add something.

The conclusion seems to be (TSN Panel) is that Lemon looks done and his continued benching while Bell tossed mostly INTs for 4 when the game was still in reach is that this is about turning it over to Jyles beginning next week.

Either that or Jim Barker was strangely thinking that more of Dalton Bell was going to change from tossing INTs.

I was watching online and after the 91 yard TD by Owens it led one poster to suggest Lemon might be coming in again. I thought, yes. Maybe this will jolt Cleo and Toronto to life - thought that might be a smart move. Just 10 pts down but no change.

I will grant Barker one thing. As a men's soccer coach (successful most years) I would not have let Cleo back in for his behaviour either as I deemed anything bad one of two ways and the player would be done for the balance of that game as either:
1. their heads were no longer in the game that day.
2. they were playing for themselves and not the team.

This way they learned that it is our team's philosophy. We can't win with selfish acts. They learn also that is they who decided it. Not me. I just selected their replacement. They learned too it is not going to be discussed with me until before the start of the next week's practices. Not even going to meet them post game on it. It was done til practice. As a result we had good tempered teams who won and who didn't retaliate or take cards. Only new players might have to learn this.

There is a major difference in soccer over football. Soccer teams even in World Cup have fouls (to me ruins the game). But the major reason I loved playing football was that football is tough but it is a game which commands and demands respect for opponents and the rules. Football refs have so much discretion to call holding, illegal blocks that you must play tough but within the rules. Fighting is not tolerated as it is not part of the culture. You are taught in football that fighting is for losers. You just hit them harder but only within the rules. The reason: YOU CAN'T WIN TAKING PENALTIES IN FOOTBALL where in soccer that rule only applies if you do that inside or just near the penalty box.

The other caveat here in football is that at times there is no easy move to a back up - especially your starting QB so here if Barker had put him back in, I'd have cut Barker a lot of slack as Lemon if your best hope to win is sitting that penalizes his entire team where in my rules of coaching soccer, I'd have good subs who just have to do an easier job than a QB has.

[notahomer]

I watched the Extra yard (argo documentary) after the game and it shows some of the dsyfunction, IMO.

I brought it up in another thread (and I'll admit I haven't followed the Argos too closely) but I still can't understand why the Offensive Coordinator is still around and the Defensive Coordinator gets canned. He got told, this isn't your defence just because you are the Coordinator, work closely with your line coach, linebacker coach and secondary coach. So its a four man job and he gets the AXE? And the offence sucks a lot worse than the defence, IMO.

Foley said something in the documentary that rings true for me too. He was complaining that he and other players (Copeland?) are being asked to do things that aren't their strengths. Foley thinks his strength is pass rushing but he's being asked to do other things.

Was Lemons numbers that bad? Three crucial drops. Okay, they were all short passes. But his poor replacement Bell tossed 4 picks! IMO, if the Defensive Coordinator deserved a pink slip, the Offensive Coordinator isn't helping his QB's succeed either. No question, Lemon's attitude seems off.

As for the Lions. The defence was a pleasure to watch. Special Teams obviously needs some tweaking.

I don't know how the Lions are going to play next Saturday. Korey Banks dropped the GeorgeWBushism "you are either with is or against us". I want to see these guys succeed but at the same time, I have sat through some stumbling home games.

[Sir Purrcival]

Cleo Lemon got a raw deal tonight. He gets pulled because the offense isn't working. Why isn't it working? Well I am assuming that he wasn't calling the plays that weren't working or drew up the game plan. Was he failing to execute? Actually his receivers let him down at key points in the first half. So of course, he gets pulled. What does his replacement do on the first 2 series? Oh, nothing much, just throw 2 pics on 2 passes, completely miss receivers all over the place and generally does way worse than Lemon. I don't blame him for being pissed. Barker completely mishandled that situation. He could have pulled Lemon out for a series or two in the 2nd or even let Bell start in the 3rd but Barker was more interested in proving the point that he is the coach and law. It goes back to that exchange on the sideline. If Lemon was wrong for being moody, then Barker was way wrong for failing to work with his starting QB more positively. He reminded me of a grumpy old man tonight and I guess the stress and looming firing is starting to weigh on him.

As for the Leo's. Glad of the win and full props to the D....but

Offense left way too many points out there tonight and failed in some key places. Most notably 3rd and less than a yard to put game a way in 4th. Are they ever going to figure out how to get short yardage plays reliably? It seems like it has been years since this problem started. If need be, send Aaron Hunt out there to take the snap. Even if he falls forward,
it is likely to result in a first down.

Props to Travis for showing some good on the run passing but on a few occasions he was premature in abandoning the pocket. As he rolled away, he allowed the Argo's Dline to roll of their blocks and give hot pursuit.

Special Teams - woeful kick coverage. It was a problem all night. Is it a lack of hang time or something else. But it was brutal and eventually let a team get up off the mat that should have been buried. If it hadn't of been the woeful Argo's playing with kid QB, that game could have gotten away from us.

Somebody tell Brown that unless you are totally sure you are going to get a big run back, it is better to give up the single on a missed field goal. That could have been very costly again had the Argo's been able to stop the Lions on a 2 and out.

By the way, what was that call tonight on one of the run backs "Illegal Interference''. What is that? I have never recalled hearing it before.

It may be a win but does anyone feel truly confident that this team can yet compete with the best teams in this league?

[West Coast Blue Fan]

I agree regarding Lemon getting a bum deal....11/15 with 3 drops gets you yanked? And you lose the best left tackle in the league......Unreal

Made zero sense in my opinion. Bell has showed absolutely nothing all season, except a flair for throwing interceptions. Oh well, Argos suck.

[TheLionKing]

Special Teams - woeful kick coverage. It was a problem all night. Is it a lack of hang time or something else. But it was brutal and eventually let a team get up off the mat that should have been buried. If it hadn't of been the woeful Argo's playing with kid QB, that game could have gotten away from us.

It was painfully obvious that Chad Owens was the Argos lone threat all night. Wonder why the Lions kept kicking to him. Bad coaching.

[joe kapp22]

I don't see what Barker sees in Cleo Lemon. This guy played in the NFL ?? After he was pulled, he was standing at the end of the bench by himself rather than offering some help to his replacement. Hardly a team player.

Announcers pointed out that Lemon's style of play, take the sure, underneath reception, over pushing the ball down the field, is not well suited to a 3 down league and I tend to agree with that unless you are tossing those check down passes to Weston Dressler types who can make things happen it makes little sense.

As for our performance, no real complaints save for ST, loved the Lulay to Bruce TD pass as he let it go before Bruce even made his break, he has been a real difference maker for us, if we beat the Argos next week I'll be stoked to see what we can do vs the better teams like the Stamps and Al's and Bombers.

[joe kapp22]

I don't see what Barker sees in Cleo Lemon. This guy played in the NFL ?? After he was pulled, he was standing at the end of the bench by himself rather than offering some help to his replacement. Hardly a team player.

After the halftime emotional tirade by Barker he may not have felt like he was part of the team....just thinking out loud on that.

I doubt seriously Lemon will succeed in that style of offence tbh, if he is going to throw underneath like he does, he needs more explosive types of complimentary players, which is one of the reasons why Durie is having such a good yr for them, but Copeland is doing next to nothing, but then I ask myself, why is Chad Owens a non factor as a Wr? He should be putting up great numbers in that style of offence.

Eh, they will put Jyles in next week to face us.

[DanoT]

Cleo Lemon got a raw deal tonight. He gets pulled because the offense isn't working. Why isn't it working? Well I am assuming that he wasn't calling the plays that weren't working or drew up the game plan. Was he failing to execute? Actually his receivers let him down at key points in the first half. So of course, he gets pulled. What does his replacement do on the first 2 series? Oh, nothing much, just throw 2 pics on 2 passes, completely miss receivers all over the place and generally does way worse than Lemon. I don't blame him for being pissed. Barker completely mishandled that situation. He could have pulled Lemon out for a series or two in the 2nd or even let Bell start in the 3rd but Barker was more interested in proving the point that he is the coach and law. It goes back to that exchange on the sideline. If Lemon was wrong for being moody, then Barker was way wrong for failing to work with his starting QB more positively. He reminded me of a grumpy old man tonight and I guess the stress and looming firing is starting to weigh on him.

As for the Leo's. Glad of the win and full props to the D....but

Offense left way too many points out there tonight and failed in some key places. Most notably 3rd and less than a yard to put game a way in 4th. Are they ever going to figure out how to get short yardage plays reliably? It seems like it has been years since this problem started. If need be, send Aaron Hunt out there to take the snap. Even if he falls forward,
it is likely to result in a first down.

Props to Travis for showing some good on the run passing but on a few occasions he was premature in abandoning the pocket. As he rolled away, he allowed the Argo's Dline to roll of their blocks and give hot pursuit.

Special Teams - woeful kick coverage. It was a problem all night. Is it a lack of hang time or something else. But it was brutal and eventually let a team get up off the mat that should have been buried. If it hadn't of been the woeful Argo's playing with kid QB, that game could have gotten away from us.

Somebody tell Brown that unless you are totally sure you are going to get a big run back, it is better to give up the single on a missed field goal. That could have been very costly again had the Argo's been able to stop the Lions on a 2 and out.

By the way, what was that call tonight on one of the run backs "Illegal Interference''. What is that? I have never recalled hearing it before.

It may be a win but does anyone feel truly confident that this team can yet compete with the best teams in this league?

Not a bad idea with Aron Hunt, only I would put him at guard. Back in he 60's when the Ticats had hall of fame DTs Angelo Mosca and John Barrow they regulary used them to beef up the O line on short yardage.