Government considering tearing down BC Place and no Retracta

[sunlight]

Here we go again with Campbell's stupid ambitious ideas. While a 15,000 seat stadium on the Waterfront may impress the Whitecaps, if it ever happens, 15,000 seats isn't big enough for the Lions or a Grey Cup.

This is just a sign the Government is not eager at keeping BC Place after the Olympics. Their whole plan all along was to get rid of the dome, just keep it up to the Olympics and no committments afterwards, so I don't know why they even floated the idea of this Retractable Roof.

Now we know for sure the Retractable Roof won't be going ahead. Not at One Billion dollars cost which is the new rumoured cost. The bids came in much higher than the $ 360 million, much much higher.

And who the hell in the Private Sector is going to fund a Stupid Roof. It's a Roof. A Roof doesn't make money. It's a Roof.

And at this point I'd have to say Major League Soccer will want to take our MLS spot and give it to Montreal:


B.C. wants developers to help pay for a new roof or build a new stadium at BC Place.

VANCOUVER — Faced with having to spend $360 million of taxpayers’ money to put a retractable roof on BC Place Stadium, the Liberal government has begun exploring another option.

Why not throw the massive redevelopment project open to the private sector, using Premier Gordon Campbell’s favourite development model — a private-public partnership deal?

And as the government ponders that so-called P3 possibility, it’s now leading to even larger questions being asked behind closed doors.

Why put a $360-million retractable roof on BC Place Stadium at all?

If the private sector is willing to share the risks in a public-private partnership, why not revisit the idea of building a waterfront soccer stadium, with hotel and convention space? That could revive the dream of billionaire Greg Kerfoot for a waterfront soccer stadium for the Vancouver Whitecaps.

That in turn opens the possibility of using BC Place Stadium, now three decades old, for other events, such as conventions. Or even tearing it down. And that provincial land around the old stadium could be used to build up office, retail and entertainment complexes that could create a brand-new entertainment district in downtown Vancouver.

Nothing is firmed up yet. But what’s being blue-skied here at the top level of the Liberal government could be the largest urban land development project in Vancouver since the buildup of False Creek after Expo 86. It’s also reminiscent of how major stadiums are built and financed in the United States.

And why not?

It may not all pan out, but the thinking is bold. The 2010 Olympics offers another moment, like Expo 86, for Vancouver to transform itself.

After Expo 86, the False Creek lands were built into a residential development that energized the city and helped the city win international recognition. The redevelopment of the underutilized waterfront north of Gastown and land around BC Place would do the same thing.

Such big ideas aren’t without risks, of course. In P3s, the government ultimately backstops the deal if it goes sour. There would have to be some serious modeling here.

But the Liberals believe in P3s, the models used to improve the Sea to Sky Highway to Whistler and the Canada Line connecting Vancouver to Richmond and the international airport.

Moreover, many members of the provincial government would love to keep massive redevelopments such as a retractable roof off the government’s books and out of the hands of its Crown corporations. Many still remember the Vancouver convention centre expansion, which was built by a Crown Corporation and cost almost $900 million, double the original budget. So far, the Campbell government’s P3 projects have come in on budget and on time.

Oddly, the debate about offering the redevelopment of BC Place Stadium and other lands to the private sector has come out of the government’s current budgetary crisis. How, the cabinet asked itself, can the government possibly justify a massive, $360-million splurge on a roof when its revenues are tumbling by the billions, services are being cut and the HST is being leveled on consumers?

That led to the idea of considering BC Place’s new retractable roof as a P3.

In turn, that has led to exploratory discussions whether Kerfoot, the owner of the Whitecaps, or other investors, may be interested in taking a major stake in a major development.

In return, investors would take a share of revenues from the stadium as well as surrounding real estate developments. It’s unclear to what extent some property might be privatized or whether the government would retain shares in some or all of the property.

The provincial government is also hoping that a major corporation may buy the rights to put its name on a completed stadium, whether it be BC Place or a new soccer stadium. Such a branding opportunity could be worth $25 million or more.

This is a huge, still fuzzy idea, of course. But the government believes that a private-sector proposal roughing out what is possible could be sketched out in a matter of weeks or months. Without private-sector proposals for a P3, some key cabinet ministers say the retractable roof for BC Place will have to be delayed or cancelled.

Not everyone loves P3s, of course. But if this idea— or even a part of it — is realized it may be good politics for Premier Gordon Campbell, who is watching his popularity drop like a rock.

First, it would create thousands of jobs. It’s estimated the construction of a retractable roof, for example, would create 1,500 person years of jobs on-site and another 1,500 in spinoffs. The construction of buildings of residential, real estate and office buildings surrounding BC Place is expected to generate 5,500 person years of jobs.

The construction would get underway shortly after the end of the Olympics next winter. That would give a much needed boost to the sagging B.C. economy that would stretch into 2013.

Guess what’s scheduled for then? Yes, the provincial election, in which the premier said Thursday he will be seeking a fourth term.

Will there be private-sector buyers for this idea during the Great Recession? Hard to say.

Recessions do end, though. And with the 2010 Olympics only five months away, there’s one thing for sure. The provincial government has a singular moment to blue-sky this deal for the world to buy.

mcernetig@vancouversun.com

[Toppy Vann]

I don't mind them shelving the roof for now and spending money on other things but as far as the stadium being torn down I was always surprised that wasn't the outcome with Gordon Campbell at the helm and the irony is that maybe fans who decry how bad BC Place might find their wishes come true and then watch the prices in a small stadium soar to pay the payroll.

[pennw]

Interesting thoughts , but is there a source of info here this is coming from ? How do you know they want to tear BC Place down ? It didn't even sound like they completely panned the new roof plans , just a postponement for know .

[SammyGreene]

Article is nothing but pure speculation with no quotes. They have ALREADY spent $63 million in interior renovations but will implode it after the Olympics?
No way.
The lack of vision regarding B.C. Place's future has been nothing short of amazing. Approval of a retractable roof for AFTER the Olympics and now this.
My hope all along was for a new 35,000 seat outdoor stadium with the ability to add 15,000 seats for bigger events like the Grey Cup.
No way are they going that route now with already a significant amount of taxpayers' money sunk into renovations. It will be replacing the current roof or going with the retractable and sadly I'm betting on status quo.

What that means long term for the Lions is having to challenge for 1st place every season with an entertaining product in order for ownership not to lose money. We will not see regular season crowds bigger than what we have seen the last 5 years in what has been arguably the best run in franchise history.

[Spud387]

Now we know for sure the Retractable Roof won't be going ahead. Not at One Billion dollars cost which is the new rumoured cost. The bids came in much higher than the $ 360 million, much much higher.

The day a new roof would ever cost 1 billion is the day Canada is renamed Zimbabwe. The convention centre almost cost a billion, not the new "proposed" price for a new roof on BC Place.

[B.C.FAN]

Kevin Krueger said a new stadium comparable to B.C. Place would cost $1 billion, not that the new roof would cost $1 billion.

[nelson95]

*beep* the roof, the stadium ain't going anywhere. Braley should throw in with Kerfoot for a 35-40G stadium in gastown.

Unless some developers want the PC Place land for 1 billion, the marshmellow will stay

[LFITQ]

Didn't Jim Pattison at one time want the Lions and BC Place stadium?

You have to wonder where BC Place would be at had the Provincial Gov't at that time gone through with the sale?

[almo89]

Didn't braley want to buy BC Place too at one point? Wonder what he thinks now

[hwgill]

I don't want a new stadium, especially not in Gastown. BC Place is easy to get to, but gastown would mean a lot of surface street driving, and downtown traffic is bad enough as is without having todeal with 10-20 K cars on game day.

[Hambone]

The original $365 million or so in the original budget was to cover ALL of the renovations including the roof. Many of those renovations are already complete.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice but it's amazing how many threads of similar theme on BC Place are the inaugural post for a new Lionbacker. I find it strange. One would think a new Lionbacker would dip their toe in and start by introducing themselves or perhaps respond to an existing thread related to the team itself. But nope. Forget football. Let's start with a BC Place thread! In some ways stadium posts should have a forum of their own since anything happening with it is a global Greater Vancouver general issue and not a CFL Football or Lions-specific issue. Yes the Lions would be impacted but so would dozens of other groups.

Unless....................

[MacNews]

Didn't Jim Pattison at one time want the Lions and BC Place stadium?

You must be joking!! Sell the stadium to a fat-cat capitalist pig and take it away from the good mother-- the public sector?

Think about it Pattison would make you pay for parking, entering the stadium, food, drinks..he'd probably even put a surcharge on tickets when he implements upgrades like a FieldTurf field!......oh wait

/sarcasm

I think BC Place would be 10x better if Pattison (Or even *gasp* his henchman Clark) were running the show.

[Toppy Vann]

Interesting thoughts , but is there a source of info here this is coming from ? How do you know they want to tear BC Place down ? It didn't even sound like they completely panned the new roof plans , just a postponement for know .

If you understand the inner workings of government you will know that at times these stories aren't just media speculation which does occur too all the time. There are times when things like these are leaked to a media person on purpose to run it up the flag pole and see how the public take it. It is not always a short term thing.

The case to demolish BC Place has been made ad nauseum by Lion fans past, present and by those who never go to games. The balance of this case for the blowing up of it can be made by those not interested in sports or other events.

Everyone not old enough to remember the cold, wet games at Empire (season was not summer start) hates BC Place. I like it and will take the heat to avoid either the wet or cold or the sun getting in the way of the line of vision. I like the atmosphere too and even the sound of 19000 fans when Damon Allen would be bringing the team downfield for a TD or the smallish crowd was making noise when the Lions were on D.

It would not surprise me one bit if the Premier goes for the cash grab of condos on that site and then says that Mr. Kerfoot is willing to spend private money and that's better than taxpayer dollars that benefit only a segment of the public who like sporting events. That case is easy to be made as there are more non-sport taxpayers. Then the other stuff like car shows can find new venues.

Come post Olympics, it is an easy case to be made is to destroy the facility and give all a deadline to build a new stadium with the offered private money from Mr. Kerfoot. You just have to quote current Lion fans or those who hate the place or those who tax funded sports facilities to get your point across. Why not start now with the rumours and speculation so that when the Olympics are done, people aren't surprised that they are looking for other venues to do sports.

In the end, the Lions could be higher priced in a private facility as there would be no subsidies of any sort and fewer seats. Place could be full like Montreal but this might end it as a family friendly outing where the young kids can come along. Granted it would not need to be priced like Canuck tickets.

MacNews: I think that Jimmy Pattison was interested in a MLB team and had some ownership of the Vancouver Canadians at the time as there was a push to get an expansion franchise that Senator Ray Perreault was involved in. I always felt that was ill-fated as Seattle's MLB was struggling big time at that time and coming to Vancouver would be even worse. Jimmy would not ever get involved in a losing proposition such as the Lions were as he does not have an affinity for sports like David Braley does. That is my take and recollection.

[Hambone]

Like the Dome or not it generates a tremendous amount of economic activity when you consider it is in use over 200 days per year. The Lions could be considered one of several anchor tenants for BC Place. Similarly the Dome is effectively an anchor tenant for the whole downtown core. The different levels of government all benefit tremendously from the tax revenue generated from the economic activity generated by BC Place's presence. Every event held there creates a need for hotel rooms, restaurant meals and a multitude of different resources and services. Of all hotels, restaurants and bars that have sprung up in recent years around BC Place and GM Place it would be interesting to see how many would disappear or relocate if the Dome disappeared.

[Toppy Vann]

Like the Dome or not it generates a tremendous amount of economic activity when you consider it is in use over 200 days per year. The Lions could be considered one of several anchor tenants for BC Place. Similarly the Dome is effectively an anchor tenant for the whole downtown core. The different levels of government all benefit tremendously from the tax revenue generated from the economic activity generated by BC Place's presence. Every event held there creates a need for hotel rooms, restaurant meals and a multitude of different resources and services. Of all hotels, restaurants and bars that have sprung up in recent years around BC Place and GM Place it would be interesting to see how many would disappear or relocate if the Dome disappeared.

There is a lot of truth in that but I suspect that they have always had an option of dumping BC Place. Pavilion Corporation which I believe still runs BC Place likely continues to receive annual budget contributions from the government to offset their operating expenses. Not sure of the revenues from BC Place itself whether they are profitable but what you are saying can be written both ways. These facilities bring revenue and people to the city, etc. or that and this means that this will be a good private sector opportunity as they move the events around. Yes, some like the car and boat shows might have trouble getting the larger venues but there are always people in gov'ts who will opt for the bottom line or the hard rule of no public money in private ventures.

I know from just being in Beijing that they are considering tearing down their Olympic Stadium as other than us tourists, they can't put events in there to fill the place and make it a profitable venture.

If they do dump the Stadium and make no mistake these things in the media like this could be gov't running the idea up the flag pole to see if people salute or they keep the rumour going so long that the day they announce there is not much gnashing of teeth and venting of anger as people believed it was going to happen. It is then hard to get business or public opposition.

They just closed down Tourism BC and rolled some staff into gov't depts. This is not hard to do.

My point is that every story that says it is too hot a venue for football helps put one more nail in the coffin. Fans could get what they wish for but it won't be like Seattle and it might not come with any gov't subsidy - all private and user pay money and a lot fewer seats so the guys that want tickets at playoffs won't get them. I guess there will be far fewer blackouts in a small venue.

I hope this doesn't happen but it is not a stretch to do this as they are just adding another convention facility on the waterfront where they wanted or it or they'd have taken up that idea to build a facility in BC Place and keep football- that got rejected.