Lionbackers.com

... the Riders expect to exceed the salary cap this year "because of the inordinate number of injuries we had,'' Tillman said. Although the Roughriders support the concept of a salary cap, Tillman is optimistic the system will be "tweaked'' in the offseason to better allow for injuries.

Suppose the Roughriders (or any team) exceeded the salary cap by $150,000 in 2007, the CFL fine system would call for them to be fined $200,000 -- $1 for each $1 overspent up to $100,000, $2 for each $1 on the next $100,000 and $3 for each $1 exceeding $200,000.

Is this an effective cap system? It is not terribly scary. I suppose it is enough of a punishment to make teams be responsible, which is the goal anyway.

Buono expects to be over the SMS because of injuries also.

I agree with Tillman that the system should not punish teams for the injuries they suffer.

Most teams, were likely at or close to the $4.05 M cap. The only team that stated they were significantly below it was Hamilton.

What happens with the money paid as penalties? They could give it to the players' pension fund.

WCJ, I noted these cap-overages in other threads but no-one seemed to intrested in chatting, thankfully you are (maybe it was too close to playoffs?). I've heard there may be three teams over (Riders, Lions and ???). Wondering who the third team is. I don't agree injuries should be able to be used as a way to 'break' the cap. Injuries are part of football and there is a 9game injured list to help in that area. The Lions SHOULD have put DD on that list but didn't. Marsh was on it and ended up sitting while healthy. I'd like to see some type of draft penalty too. Lose a draft pick(s) depending on how much over. Hit teams in the pocketbook and at the draft table (oops this is the CFL-hit them at the conference call).

notahomer wrote:WCJ, I noted these cap-overages in other threads but no-one seemed to intrested in chatting, thankfully you are (maybe it was too close to playoffs?).

Yeah it was probably too close to the playoffs, notahomer. I did not notice the posts.

Now, in the off-season, the SMS suddenly gets interesting.

I was thinking that the three teams with the worst injury problems would likely be the ones over the SMS.

1-BC Lions, worst hit, probably closer to the SMS than the others.
2-Toronto Argonauts, devasted almost as badly as BC.
3-Saskatchewan Roughriders, according to their GM, most over the SMS.

I don't agree injuries should be able to be used as a way to 'break' the cap. Injuries are part of football and there is a 9game injured list to help in that area. The Lions SHOULD have put DD on that list but didn't

Agreed and I suggested we put Dickenson on the 9 game injury list. However, I was criticized as most thought he would be back a lot sooner than he was!!

Injuries are a part of football. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't!! I don't believe injuries are a part of the NFL salary cap structure.

Blitz wrote:Injuries are a part of football. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't!!

Agree. Budget for it and be happy if you don't need to spend your full budget. The 9-game injury list is available as SMS relief for teams that are hit with major injuries. The more minor week-to-week injuries are a normal part of football.

There are injuries, and there are "injuries" of guys you'd like to keep around but don't have the room for.

Don't open a loophole because of sympathy.

cromartie wrote:There are injuries, and there are "injuries" of guys you'd like to keep around but don't have the room for.

Don't open a loophole because of sympathy.

Exactly. We don't need Mike Maurer (hope got spelling right) faking injuries off the field too, but I doubt he'd save them much cap-room.

Blitz wrote:

I don't agree injuries should be able to be used as a way to 'break' the cap. Injuries are part of football and there is a 9game injured list to help in that area. The Lions SHOULD have put DD on that list but didn't

Agreed and I suggested we put Dickenson on the 9 game injury list. However, I was criticized as most thought he would be back a lot sooner than he was!!

Injuries are a part of football. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't!! I don't believe injuries are a part of the NFL salary cap structure.

Yes salaries paid to injured players are part of the cap in the NFL. With a hard cap, the NFL system is done in real time, based on the contracts that are submitted.

Now because of the size of the cap, few teams are pushing it, so it is not as much of an issue. My understanding is that if a team is near the cap and has to bring someone extra in that would put them over the cap, they have to cut someone else at that point. Here in the CFL the team could have a projected overage based on their contracts, but as long as they clean that up by the end of the season they are ok.

IMHO, a team is penalized enough when they lose a player to injury and have to make do with a lesser replacement...........penalizing them further due to excessive cost of replacement players is ludicrous.

Making injured player salaries exempt from the SMS makes 100% sense.........but, fixing the "stashing players" hole is essential.........and IMHO, can be easily rectified by making team doctors responsible for signing off on legitimate injuries......doctors are governed by oaths that are very important to them.

Solar Max wrote:I was thinking that the three teams with the worst injury problems would likely be the ones over the SMS.

1-BC Lions, worst hit, probably closer to the SMS than the others.
2-Toronto Argonauts, devasted almost as badly as BC.
3-Saskatchewan Roughriders, according to their GM, most over the SMS.

forgetting someone SM?

- Brandon Guillory - starting DE - lost first preseason game for season (possibly career - nerve damage)
- Jonte Buhl - starting HB - lost 1st game for season (wrist)
- Kevin Lefsrud - starting RG - lost early for season / career (concussion)
- Dan Comiskey - starting LG - lost early and at mid point for season (leg/arm)
- Jason Tucker - starting SB - missed several games and hampered by knee injured in TC (knee)
- Omar Morgan - starting CB - missed a few games in latter stages of season (leg)
- TJ Acree - starting SB - lost early for season (leg/foot)
- Fred Stamps - replacement/starting SB - lost at midpoint for season (appendix)
- Tyler Ebell - starting RB - missed a couple games (shoulder)
- JR LaRose - starting S - missed a few games (shoulder)
- Pat Woodcock - NI rotational Rec - missed entire season (leg)
- Lenny Williams - replacement/starter HB/PR - missed final half of season (knee)
- Stanford Samuels - starting HB -missed handfull of games throughout (neck/nerve)
- Mathieu Bertrand - starting FB - lost at mid point for season (leg)
- Antico Dalton - rotational LB - lost early in season (possible career - nerve damage)
- Jason Goss - starting HB - missed a couple games down stretch (leg)
- Adam Braidwood - starting DE - missed final 3 games of season (knee)
- Ricky Ray - starting QB - missed final 5 games of season (shoulder)


....we had a bit of injury issues this year as well.....

Wasn't Montreal going to place AC on the injured reserve so they could enter the Printers sweepstakes? The SMS system in CFL has been plagued with loopholes over the years. I think a portion of what you budget needs to bring injuries into consideration. If you outbid other CFL teams to get the top free agent and spend too close to the cap why is it the problem of teams that stay within budget?

notahomer wrote:The SMS system in CFL has been plagued with loopholes over the years. I think a portion of what you budget needs to bring injuries into consideration.

"Over the years"? Not sure what you're talking about there. The SMS as a formal, supposedly quantifiable entity with defined criteria and penalties, has been in effect for 1 season. In the past there were salary caps/guidelines/rough guesstimates, whatever you want to call them. People can say there were loopholes when in fact there weren't. To have loopholes you first have to have some semblance of rules or laws. Pre-SMS there was at best a ballpark salary guideline with no clear definition of what constituted "salary" and no defined penalty for exceeding the theoretical cap. For all intents the old system was like having a speed limit then sending cops out to catch speeders with no radar or other technology to tell how fast a car is going.

Teams supposedly do budget to allow room for injuries and late season acquisitions. What becomes difficult is determining how much to budget. Should teams budget their injury replacement costs for absolute worst case scenarios every season? It's a tough sell to the fans to structure your roster to try to win the Grey Cup while at the same time starting the season fielding a roster with room for the possibility of catastrophic injuries to several starters, which is very much a real possibility. "Yeah we had to cut Geroy because we needed cap room just in case our whole defensive line got hurt during the season. Ya never know what might happen and we don't want to go over the cap just in case.

In theory though when looking at the Dickenson situation it wasn't Dave's salary that impacted the Lions' cap situation. True they still had to pay him as they would've had he been healthy. But the true net SMS impact to their situation was the additional cost of the extra backup. For cap purposes it was the cost of the salaries of Jackson and Guidugli that changed the Lions cap totals. For SMS purposes the top 2 QB salaries count against the cap. The 3rd highest (presumably 3rd string) does not count against the cap. So to start the season Dickenson's $400K and Pierce's $200K count and Jackson's doesn't. Once DD and BP went down the Lions' SMS number had to absorb the additional cost of JJ's and GG's stipend. It wasn't that the cap was impacted because Dickenson the starter was out, but rather because Jackson the backup now counted.

Hambone wrote: "Over the years"? Not sure what you're talking about there. The SMS as a formal, supposedly quantifiable entity with defined criteria and penalties, has been in effect for 1 season. In the past there were salary caps/guidelines/rough guesstimates, whatever you want to call them. People can say there were loopholes when in fact there weren't. To have loopholes you first have to have some semblance of rules or laws. Pre-SMS there was at best a ballpark salary guideline with no clear definition of what constituted "salary" and no defined penalty for exceeding the theoretical cap. For all intents the old system was like having a speed limit then sending cops out to catch speeders with no radar or other technology to tell how fast a car is going. ...

Yes, I know you are right, the current SMS has been in effect for only one year. All I was trying to say is I don't want the current SMS to head down the road towards the old system you outlined. I had to listen to other teams fans complain about how the Lions were flouting the rules and whaddya know, most teams were doing the same things. Football is certainly copycat on/off the field (it only makes sense to do things that work). I just don't see the point of having a SMS if teams are going to be able to avoid being penalized for breaking it.