Shedding light on the Blackouts

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Shaggy
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I would love to see the stats of walk-up ticket sales on blacked out game days - does it really increase noticeably? I don’t know, but I'm willing to wager that the walk-up sales do not increase all that substantially as a result of a blackout.
It would definitely be an interesting stat to see.

Also, look at the Canucks....at one point there were far less games on TV.
Now, you can see most every game ( yes, I know some are PPV ) and the home games are all sellouts.

Sure, the TV $$ are probably greater with the hockey, but the broadcast product and corresponding viewership continues to increase.

I think we'll continue to see STH #'s rise because the onfield product is so good, the ownership and management is stable and professional. The Lions are where the Canucks were several years back. I think they are reaching a point where the lifting blackouts will no longer be a concern for impacting revenue. Ultimately, the benefits of exposure should start to outweigh the loss of a walk-up gate.

It will certainly be interesting to see how it unfolds over the length of the new TSN deal.
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Rammer
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Shaggy wrote:
I would love to see the stats of walk-up ticket sales on blacked out game days - does it really increase noticeably? I don’t know, but I'm willing to wager that the walk-up sales do not increase all that substantially as a result of a blackout.
It would definitely be an interesting stat to see.

Also, look at the Canucks....at one point there were far less games on TV.
Now, you can see most every game ( yes, I know some are PPV ) and the home games are all sellouts.

Sure, the TV $$ are probably greater with the hockey, but the broadcast product and corresponding viewership continues to increase.

I think we'll continue to see STH #'s rise because the onfield product is so good, the ownership and management is stable and professional. The Lions are where the Canucks were several years back. I think they are reaching a point where the lifting blackouts will no longer be a concern for impacting revenue. Ultimately, the benefits of exposure should start to outweigh the loss of a walk-up gate.

It will certainly be interesting to see how it unfolds over the length of the new TSN deal.
That is all forward thinking based on a positive onfield product, but there is the possibility that the Lions end up at the bottom of the league somewhere down the road, and that isn't going to translate into extra seat sales. The biggest problem the Lions have ahead of themselves is to remain competitive or end up like the Blue Jays did after the 93 season.
Entertainment value = an all time low
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LFITQ
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Also, look at the Canucks....at one point there were far less games on TV.
Now, you can see most every game ( yes, I know some are PPV ) and the home games are all sellouts.
Ahh but which came first?

Were the games sellouts and then TV opened up or was it the other way around?

IIRC the games being on TV did not happen until after the seats were being sold.

If the Lions were having consistent sell outs (or near sell outs) I bet there wouldn't be any problem with having them on TV without a black out as well.
Now that I don't live in Quesnel do I need to change my handle??
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Rammer
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LFITQ wrote:
Also, look at the Canucks....at one point there were far less games on TV.
Now, you can see most every game ( yes, I know some are PPV ) and the home games are all sellouts.
Ahh but which came first?

Were the games sellouts and then TV opened up or was it the other way around?

IIRC the games being on TV did not happen until after the seats were being sold.

If the Lions were having consistent sell outs (or near sell outs) I bet there wouldn't be any problem with having them on TV without a black out as well.
Or had a 90% ST base to the seats available.
Entertainment value = an all time low
Shaggy
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I agree with both Rammer and LFITQ. Your points are well made.
Like I said, there's two sides to the argument, and I can see valid aspects to both.
Without all the stats regarding attendance, walk-up sales for televised vs. blackout games, it's a lot of conjecture involved on my part.

My point with the Canucks was look at where they were at one time ( crappy team w/crappy attendance - this comes from a huge Canucks fan ).
There were empty seats and bags on the heads. Where are they now, and how did they get there? It's a combination of things...chicken and egg
in some respects as to how they got there. Was it the product? Or the TV exposure? In what order?

I think the key to it all is the product on field ( Vancouver clearly likes a winner ) and the fact that our ownership / management has never been more solid.
The STH base keeps increasing from year to year since Ackles and Buono have become involved.
Hopefully those factors combine to increase attendance and reduce the blackouts to a non-issue. 40K plus attendance and no blackouts would be ideal.

How do we get there? I guess we have to stay tuned to find out.
hexx

Shaggy wrote: My point with the Canucks was look at where they were at one time ( crappy team w/crappy attendance - this comes from a huge Canucks fan ).
There were empty seats and bags on the heads. Where are they now, and how did they get there? It's a combination of things...chicken and egg
in some respects as to how they got there. Was it the product? Or the TV exposure? In what order?
Neither. It was aggressive marketing and promotion, in every medium, everywhere, all the time, almost to the point of brainwashing. That's why half the province drools for a perenially inconsistent team that hasn't won anything and has no real prospect to either. Contrast with the Lions who have been the most dominant team in their league for several years now, and though they have made huge strides in rebuilding their fan base, are barely relevant in the mainstream culture of the area, because they largely rely on the product to sell itself.
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Soundy
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Shaggy wrote: Also, look at the Canucks....at one point there were far less games on TV.
Now, you can see most every game ( yes, I know some are PPV ) and the home games are all sellouts.
The home games have been selling out for several years now... and for probably the same reason, they've been able to sell more televised games to the various media outlets. There's a direct correlation, but it's not one to the other; it's of both to the same factors: a more successful and exciting product (most of the "latter day" attention grew from the "West Coast Express" line, just as it did from Pavel Bure in the early 90s), and good marketing.
LFITQ wrote:Ahh but which came first?

Were the games sellouts and then TV opened up or was it the other way around?

IIRC the games being on TV did not happen until after the seats were being sold.

If the Lions were having consistent sell outs (or near sell outs) I bet there wouldn't be any problem with having them on TV without a black out as well.
Even when the Canucks were stinking out the joint, though, they weren't blacking out games (at least not at home). Games that weren't televised, weren't televised simply because they didn't (or couldn't) sell them to anyone. Presumably the PPV option was instituted to make those games available, although it seems anymore that they're cherry-picking some games for PPV before offering them up to the networks.

Remember, too, that with the CFL and only 8 teams, it's much more of a "national" product, such that there's plenty of interest for the various networks to actually carry EVERY game, even if they're not allowed to show it in the home market. People will plan entire weekends around sitting down to watch ALL the teams play, not just their own. There are also far fewer games to broadcast in a season - 72 *total* regular-season games for the entire league, vs. 82 *per team* for the NHL - so if a broadcaster doesn't feel they'll have the audience for a couple of particular Canucks games (or has something else they think will bring a better audience), they just don't purchase the rights to that game, and oh well, there'll be another one in a couple of days.

Actually, it's been a major complaint for some Canucks fans living elsewhere in Canada that the games are blacked out in their regions. A friend who was living in Calgary a few years ago, for example, used to get all the SportsNet feeds on his satellite, but they blacked out most of the Canucks games that were on SportsNet Pacific, instead showing whatever was on SportsNet West at the time. Oddly enough, though he has the same problem now in Ottawa, it's not as bad as it was in Calgary. Presumably this is NHL edict to help promote the "local" teams in each region, but come on... if you're a Canucks fan in Calgary, are you really going to watch a Flames@Oilers game just because you can't get the Canucks game that's on at the same time? I don't know of a lot of fans of ANY NHL teams who will set aside time to watch any game that's on, other than their own teams.

But that's going off on a tangent...
hexx wrote:Neither. It was aggressive marketing and promotion, in every medium, everywhere, all the time, almost to the point of brainwashing. That's why half the province drools for a perenially inconsistent team that hasn't won anything and has no real prospect to either. Contrast with the Lions who have been the most dominant team in their league for several years now, and though they have made huge strides in rebuilding their fan base, are barely relevant in the mainstream culture of the area, because they largely rely on the product to sell itself.
That's what it all comes down to, really: marketing. Look at the success of NASCAR the past several years - good marketing with some really brilliant ads, and rather than selling the racing itself, they've sold the DRIVERS. They've turned the drivers into personalities and products in their own right, many with their own catch-phrases based on their own sponsorships. How many people know the phrase, "Drive the truck, Dale"? How many people know what it means? How many even know who "Dale" is? Most of them are WELL-DONE commercials that actually INVOLVE the driver... not just your basic product sell with a quick shot of the driver holding up the box, smiling and saying, "Hey, I use it!" at the end.

NASCAR Nextel Cup races pack out every race to capacity - 50,000 to 80,000 or more (depending on the track), many of whom probably don't know a wedge adjustment from a spoiler from a spark plug, but they come out to watch their favorite driver personality turn left for four or five hours on a Sunday afternoon. And cities are almost BEGGING NASCAR to put races in their town, because they've worked so hard to build the demand FIRST.
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chimpy

i think if the lions can win the grey cup this year, that will be a huge boost to enhance the popularity in this team, and yes they need to show all games on tv, because that alone will educate people out there who are not lions fan's or even football fans, and might want to come down to bc place to see a game for the first time. Think of why the Westrn Final always gets over 50,000, that is because they make it an event, that this is the game of the year, that this is the place to be. well that is what the canucks do, and by not having them on tv hurts that tramendasley, the lions could learn from the canucks, and i do not know why they don't, it is not that the canucks are stanley cup champions (far from the in fact), it is because they brain wash people exspecally young fan's (16-30) that this is the only game in town. I hate to say this but until the lions get some younger ownership that understands this the lions are always are going to play second fiddle to the canucks, Bob Ackles and David Braily have done an unbelievable job with this team (averging 18,000 a game to 32,000 a game) but it is time to take the next step, and for the last couple of years they have not taken the next step, so i think it is time for the ownwership to move on, and get some onwers in here who can get it to the next level.
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No Ordinary Joe
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I've never liked the blackouts. As a fan who for many years was never able to make it out to many games live, not having the option of watching on TV. I've always maintained that selling the atmosphere inside the stadium the people on the couch would be included in should they buy a ticket is important. Sure there's 9 road games to watch but it's the home games you want to hype up as the "thing to do." 2 games being lifted IMO isn't that effective because they're never advertised. If people have had it drummed into their heads that Lions games simply aren't being shown on TV, eventually they'll stop checking "is it on this week?" and just give up checking altogether and miss those 2 games. I have friends like this who'll flip through the channels at home only to discover "oh wow, the game's on!" but it's already in the middle of the 3rd QTR. at that point. I understand the concept behind blacking out games but IMO it's an antiquated system. The best way to market your product and to get people interested in it is to expose it, not hide it.
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Soundy
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chimpy wrote:Think of why the Westrn Final always gets over 50,000, that is because they make it an event, that this is the game of the year, that this is the place to be. well that is what the canucks do, and by not having them on tv hurts that tramendasley, the lions could learn from the canucks, and i do not know why they don't, it is not that the canucks are stanley cup champions (far from the in fact), it is because they brain wash people exspecally young fan's (16-30) that this is the only game in town. I hate to say this but until the lions get some younger ownership that understands this the lions are always are going to play second fiddle to the canucks, Bob Ackles and David Braily have done an unbelievable job with this team (averging 18,000 a game to 32,000 a game) but it is time to take the next step, and for the last couple of years they have not taken the next step, so i think it is time for the ownwership to move on, and get some onwers in here who can get it to the next level.
The Canucks' success wasn't built on particularly young ownership... or even INTERESTED ownership under the elusive and enigmatic John McCaw. Right now you have a Lions owner who loves CFL football, who is into his team, and who is willing to spend the money... I'd venture to say you're not likely going to find much better ownership no matter where you look.

Of course, if you want younger ownership, I'm sure Lonie Glieberman would be interested in getting back into football...

As far as marketing, well... I just finished reading chapers 3 and 4 of Bobby Ackles book... let me just suggest chapter 3 is required reading for any know-it-alls that want to comment on the subject again.
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Soundy wrote: Of course, if you want younger ownership, I'm sure Lonie Glieberman would be interested in getting back into football...
:shock: :shock:
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No Ordinary Joe
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OK, I'm really choked right now. I set my VCR up tonight to tape the Lions game. I was at the game and missed some of the questionable decisions made by the officials (most notably the phantom fumble in the 3rd Quarter) and wanted to go back and watch them again with the benefit of instant replay and commentators only to discover that tonight's game was BLACKED OUT?! There were 37,011 people there tonight, how many damn people do they want in there before they finally lift the friggin' blackout? Extra sections were opened for crying out loud!!! :bang: :x :roll:
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Rammer
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No Ordinary Joe wrote:OK, I'm really choked right now. I set my VCR up tonight to tape the Lions game. I was at the game and missed some of the questionable decisions made by the officials (most notably the phantom fumble in the 3rd Quarter) and wanted to go back and watch them again with the benefit of instant replay and commentators only to discover that tonight's game was BLACKED OUT?! There were 37,011 people there tonight, how many damn people do they want in there before they finally lift the friggin' blackout? Extra sections were opened for crying out loud!!! :bang: :x :roll:
60K.
Entertainment value = an all time low
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B.C.FAN
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I set my VRC too. We can always watch it on broadband in the TSN archive. And the highlights are on the TSN site too.
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