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Now first of all, considering the "hurt feelings" that seem to be coming in and out of this board of late, I want to state that this is not meant to be targeting the Bombers specifically, it's just today brought the idea up. The Bombers are only being mentioned because they were the first team to do it, please feel free to substitute ANY team (including the Lions) for the Bombers.

While listening to the broadcast on Sirius radio coming home tonight (I'm still pissed the Bombers have the BEST radio crew around, Bob Irving should be bottled and sold to ALL the team radio stations!!) it was really great to see all the deserving accolades that were bestowed upon Milt Stegall (although I think I would have left some of them for when he retires as some were over the top for breaking a record and I thought woudl have been better for his retirement celebration).

However, the "awards" that the Bombers gave to him, might come back to haunt them. In the new SMS era of the CFL, shouldn't (and I mean technically by the letter of the law) or couldn't those "awards" be considered part of his salary? I mean they gave him a car and one of the things the SMS did talk about was the awarding of non-monetary items and how they DO count as salary. Now I know this is supposed to be a one time special honour thing, however, if it isn't counted towards the CAP does it not leave a HUGE hole in the SMS process? Couldn't all the teams now use "incentives" to create an "award" system to give players "gifts" for their achievements? Like couldn't the Lions give Jason Clermont an "award" for being named a player of the week and NOT have it count against the SMS cap? Granted that could be an extreme example, but it is still plausible.

If the Bombers are allowed to give stegall a car and other awards and not have it count against the cap, could it not be perceived as a new "hole" in the SMS which "richer" teams could exploit to circumvent the SMS?

Well, it was a CARAVAN :lol: :lol: :lol: So I would let it slide, poor guy has to be seen driving around in that!

I was expecting at least a half decent vehicle!

Interesting question. It's like an argument in contract law which says what would a reasonable person think?

I see your point and the CFL does have to be careful in how this kind of thing is applied.

If necessary, I'd be prepared as a Bomber fan to accept the hit against the SMS. I'm not certain they will take a hit, or whether they should, but I won't complain if they do.

I would assume the awards would be counted toward the cap. I don't know what the Bombers and the league say about that.

And what about the Lions who have been "adopted" by corporate sponsors and presumably receive remuneration in return for appearances and endorsements. Are these and other commercial endorsements counted?

B.C.FAN wrote:I would assume the awards would be counted toward the cap. I don't know what the Bombers and the league say about that.

And what about the Lions who have been "adopted" by corporate sponsors and presumably receive remuneration in return for appearances and endorsements. Are these and other commercial endorsements counted?

They are suppose to be, but if they find the extra coin on their own, it isn't suppose to be. Milt would be hard pressed to suggest that his winnings were found on his own, it was on national TV. I think that it is tacky to include this type of winnings, but by the letter of the SMS, it is suppose to be now.

When Lyle Bauer presented the Caravan to Milt, I recalled him saying that the fans gave the Caravan to Milt as a present. Should gifts from fans work against the cap? I assume the money came from the fans but it then probably went through the Bombers organization.

uncle leo wrote:When Lyle Bauer presented the Caravan to Milt, I recalled him saying that the fans gave the Caravan to Milt as a present. Should gifts from fans work against the cap? I assume the money came from the fans but it then probably went through the Bombers organization.

I know he said that, but I took that to mean it came from ticket revenue. So in the purest sense, the TEAM paid for the vehicle. Even the dealership might have chipped in a reduced price, but that's still a team resulted payment.

This needs to be clarified by the CFL. Maybe they need to create a limit of these types of payments each year for special occasions.

Do Grey Cup rings or Division Championship rings count if teams provide them? The CFL doesn't pay for GC rings IIRC.

It would be unreasonable to count those against the cap as an example.

Stegall won't be the only individual player to receive an award of this nature. So the league does need an answer.

If Dickenson retires and the team gives him a car, if the Als do something for Calvillo for making an all time passing milestone, Darryl Mitchell hit a team receiving record.

Those need to be exceptions.

I recalled him saying that the fans gave the Caravan to Milt as a present

I'm with Blue in BC on this one, because he said the fans in attendance tonight paid for it. So it had to come from ticket revenue.

One of the things the SMS did was also try to counter corporations from becoming involved in the salary fights by having those deals also supposed to be part of the cap. Now I have no way of knowing HOW they are measuring those and finding out all about them. I mean if a company wants to use a CFL player for promo work should that count against the cap? I don't necessarily think it should. Afterall we want to see our stars in the limelight, but it could be possiblt for Teams to line up that kind of work for players as a "signing incentive". Heck some owners could actually sign a player and tell them they will also be working for their private business thus increasing their paycheque, but only a portion counting against the SMS, and to me that is definitely AGAINST the cap.

Grey cup rings are another good example as a type of bonus paid to players that I didn't think about. However, because of the nature of the rings, I think those could be worded to be worked in easily so they don't count against the CAP because they could be specified. Awards for achievement might be a little more difficult, especially considering we do have incentive filled contracts already in the league that DO count against the CAP.

I think if it is an award or recognition the CFL is recognizing by having the Commish present at a ceremony, then those awards should NOT count against the CAP because the CFL as a whole is indicating it was a significant achievement. I specifically chose those words because I don't think getting special awards for Player of the week or Player of the month fits into the category of necessarily deserving of an award.

To follow along with those, I would also go as far as to say League recognized awards - such as Gladiator of the Game (TSN gives a Movado watch) or Warrior of the Game (I can't remember what CBC gives but I know there is a substantial gift at the end of the season) where players recieve prizes - should also not count against the CAP.

LFITQ wrote:

I recalled him saying that the fans gave the Caravan to Milt as a present

I'm with Blue in BC on this one, because he said the fans in attendance tonight paid for it. So it had to come from ticket revenue.

One of the things the SMS did was also try to counter corporations from becoming involved in the salary fights by having those deals also supposed to be part of the cap. Now I have no way of knowing HOW they are measuring those and finding out all about them. I mean if a company wants to use a CFL player for promo work should that count against the cap? I don't necessarily think it should. Afterall we want to see our stars in the limelight, but it could be possiblt for Teams to line up that kind of work for players as a "signing incentive". Heck some owners could actually sign a player and tell them they will also be working for their private business thus increasing their paycheque, but only a portion counting against the SMS, and to me that is definitely AGAINST the cap.

Grey cup rings are another good example as a type of bonus paid to players that I didn't think about. However, because of the nature of the rings, I think those could be worded to be worked in easily so they don't count against the CAP because they could be specified. Awards for achievement might be a little more difficult, especially considering we do have incentive filled contracts already in the league that DO count against the CAP.

I think if it is an award or recognition the CFL is recognizing by having the Commish present at a ceremony, then those awards should NOT count against the CAP because the CFL as a whole is indicating it was a significant achievement. I specifically chose those words because I don't think getting special awards for Player of the week or Player of the month fits into the category of necessarily deserving of an award.

To follow along with those, I would also go as far as to say League recognized awards - such as Gladiator of the Game (TSN gives a Movado watch) or Warrior of the Game (I can't remember what CBC gives but I know there is a substantial gift at the end of the season) where players recieve prizes - should also not count against the CAP.

Just thinking out loud here, but isn't the SMS based on the regular season earnings, it has nothing to do with the playoff money, thus zero to do with the rings earned.

LFITQ wrote:However, the "awards" that the Bombers gave to him, might come back to haunt them. In the new SMS era of the CFL, shouldn't (and I mean technically by the letter of the law) or couldn't those "awards" be considered part of his salary? I mean they gave him a car and one of the things the SMS did talk about was the awarding of non-monetary items and how they DO count as salary. Now I know this is supposed to be a one time special honour thing, however, if it isn't counted towards the CAP does it not leave a HUGE hole in the SMS process? Couldn't all the teams now use "incentives" to create an "award" system to give players "gifts" for their achievements? Like couldn't the Lions give Jason Clermont an "award" for being named a player of the week and NOT have it count against the SMS cap? Granted that could be an extreme example, but it is still plausible.

If the Bombers are allowed to give stegall a car and other awards and not have it count against the cap, could it not be perceived as a new "hole" in the SMS which "richer" teams could exploit to circumvent the SMS?

I think last night's awards Stegall received fit into the "lifetime achievement" category. They have nothing to do with compensation for the current football season. I suppose if someone wanted to split hairs on it you could count 1.449% of the value of his booty going against the 2007 SMS since 136 of the 138 TDs it took to set the new all-time record occured prior to the 2007 season. I guess Bauer and Taman would have to declare the value of the hubcaps. "Gifts" for achievements contained within a single given season would be non-cash bonus payments. They are a whole different animal compared to "gifts" for career-long achievements.

Rammer wrote:Just thinking out loud here, but isn't the SMS based on the regular season earnings, it has nothing to do with the playoff money, thus zero to do with the rings earned.

Absolutely correct Rammer. SMS is all about compensation paid for the 18 game regular season schedule.

uncle leo wrote:When Lyle Bauer presented the Caravan to Milt, I recalled him saying that the fans gave the Caravan to Milt as a present. Should gifts from fans work against the cap? I assume the money came from the fans but it then probably went through the Bombers organization.

Well if this is the case, I think us Lions fans need to figure out some type of contract signing fan-gift for Jason Clermont if he decides to come back to the Lions! Hmmm, I wonder what we should get him?

Hambone wrote:

Rammer wrote:Just thinking out loud here, but isn't the SMS based on the regular season earnings, it has nothing to do with the playoff money, thus zero to do with the rings earned.

Absolutely correct Rammer. SMS is all about compensation paid for the 18 game regular season schedule.

I'm not so sure about that. Do the players get paid anything by the team during playoffs? That would include bonus's for winning a playoff game, or even being in a playoff game.

It a team chooses to pay their QB, $50K for a 1st round victory, how is that different from paying him $50K for finishing in 1st?

There are some slippery slopes to be considered.

Blue In BC wrote:I'm not so sure about that. Do the players get paid anything by the team during playoffs? That would include bonus's for winning a playoff game, or even being in a playoff game.

It a team chooses to pay their QB, $50K for a 1st round victory, how is that different from paying him $50K for finishing in 1st?

There are some slippery slopes to be considered.

Players do receive bonuses for participating in playoff games. There are standard bonuses paid by the CFL as part of the CBA. In a fashion players do receive further bonuses for winning a playoff game in that they then will earn an additional bonus for participating in the subsequent playoff or Grey Cup game. In that regard the CFL is not unlike the NHL. While the team payroll issues the playoff cheques the players are effectively on the league payroll once the regular season ends.

I suppose players could have other playoff bonuses included in the language of their contract. However I'm thinking such incentives would be rare and not necessarily desirable from the player's standpoint. A GM may try to entice a player with such an incentive, but it would in all likelihood be a tradeoff for a smaller regular season salary. In this day and age players are more interested in guaranteed remuneration for things like signing bonuses than they are in a post-season bonus that is anything but guaranteed. As a player I'd rather have an extra $25K on my annual salary than a potential $50K playoff achievement bonus. As a player too many things beyond my control could make that playoff incentive bonus worthless.