Andrew Harris

[Rammer]

We had the best offence in the CFL in 2006, 2007, and 2012. Those are the only seasons that I am aware of that our offence was the CFL's most dominant offence.

And in 2007 and 2012, JC was OC.

2012 was a built in 2011 when Chapdelaine was given the word to adjust or walk. Since then teams have caught up to the offensive schemes, or JC has fallen back into the beginning of 2011 play calling again. I was pleasantly pleased with the ending of 2011 and it was mainly due to the adjustments, and as much as I wanted to see JC gone earlier in the season, I gave him credit for finally utilizing the talent that the Lions had in a manner that allowed them to do more than just execute plays that the opposition was sitting on. JC is a stubborn individual and believes that he is of superior intelligence, as noted by his comment on being questioned about his play calling suggesting that it was his fault that the receiver fell. At some point he has to take ownership that his plays have the opposition jumping receiver routes, stuffing Harris because they know the play as the formation and personnel are substituted in. It is amazing to me that the Lions cannot attempt to deceive the opposition more than they do, it is more here is what we are going to run, try and stop us. That has worked to a degree with some Lion teams under Wally having incredible talent, far above any other CFL team, but when the Lions don't have the superior talent, they tend to struggle with just better talent than their counterpart.

[South Pender]

2012 was a built in 2011 when Chapdelaine was given the word to adjust or walk.

That seems to suggest that, even when he has had success, it must be qualified and diminished. And, just out of curiosity, does anyone know that Chapdelaine was actually threatened with dismissal if the team didn't turn around their 2011 season? I'm not saying he wasn't; I just don't know. Are we certain that, had that season continued poorly, he would have been fired? Did the Lions' brass really see him as mainly responsible for the team's poor performance up to that point? In other words, are we dealing with facts here or merely supposition?

JC is a stubborn individual and believes that he is of superior intelligence, as noted by his comment on being questioned about his play calling suggesting that it was his fault that the receiver fell.

I remember that quote from JC, and I thought it was valid. I can't see how that particular response indicates that he "believes that he is of superior intelligence." Maybe he does (I don't know), but that quote wouldn't suggest that to me. I think it was a valid point--that even well-conceived plays (like that one; I think it was Arceneaux who fell) can fail when a player falls down. And should he be held responsible for that? He was--again validly in my opinion--saying that the best offensive strategies and tactics will fail if the players executing the plays don't do their part. Nothing wrong with that notion as far as I'm concerned.

I feel myself being forced into a corner about JC. I'm not (nor was I in the past) suggesting that he's a truly great OC. Maybe we could do better. But to blame everything wrong with our offense on him when Bill Walsh couldn't have made our offense work well this year given all the injuries resulting in a completely inadequate O-line just seems incorrect and unfair.

[Blitz]

In Chaps first two seasons as our offensive coordinator our offence was very successful. In 2005 our offence was 2nd in the CFL and in 2006 it was the CFL`s best offence as we went on to win the 2006 Grey Cup.

Chap left at the end of 2006 to become the offensive coordinator and Associate Head Coach in Edmonton. We decided to share the offensive coordinator position between Kruck and Dorazio but it was Kruck who called the plays. We hired John Hugnagel as a consultant for our offence for that season. He was there to provide assistance to Kruck and Dorazio, coached at the 2007 training camp, and advised along the way that season.

We changed our offence. We became a run first offence with Joe Smith as our tailback. Dickenson and Pierce both got hurt early that season and we were forced to go to our 3rd string quarterback Jarious Jackson. Jackson had never started a game. However, we won 9 of our last 11 games that season with Jackson as our quarterback, who benefited greatly by our powerful running game.

I lied the change in direction. I felt the spread was past its due date. It had been very successful for Hugnagel and Cortez in the 90`s and early 2000`s but defenses were adjusting to it. I felt that we needed to come out of the spread and go more multi-formational and make adjustments to our scheme.

However Simon and Co. lobbied for the return of Chap. Perhaps they felt he was the best choice but I was concerned that there was also self-interest in their move, as JC was a spread offence disciple who was very pass oriented.

Chap returned as our receivers coach in name in 2008 but he called the plays and he was our offensive coordinator in reality from his return. Our offence began its slide as we returned to the spread. In 2009 our offence was 4th in the CFL, 5th in 2009, and 7th in 2010.

In 2011 we got off to another terrible start to the season and our offence was struggling. There were loud calls for Wally to retire as HC and for Chap to be gone. I would have been very happy to see Chap released.

However, off to a 1-6 start we made a number of changes. We aguired Arland Bruce and inserted Andrew Harris. Even more significantly Chap made serious changes to our scheme, going multi-formational and introducing more motion, misdirection, new running plays, more play action, more rollouts, and a new blocking scheme.

For the rest of the 2011 season our offence was the best in the CFL. It was even better in 2012, as we led the league in rushing and average yards per game. We were finally back to being the best offence in the league.

This season has been a struggle again for our offence. The key change has been our offensive line. We have been without our starting center. Kabongo became our starting guard with Hameister-Rees unable to play. Fabian, our starting right guartd was injured for the season and we had to insert Valii, who was coming off a second knee surgery. Olifoye also hurt his back and has played with the injury. Archibald`s play slipped.

If it was 2008 to early 2011 I would believe Chap needs to go. However, considering the offensive line situation this season and the way our offence played for most of the 2011 season and 2012 season, I hesitate to make that change.

I found it interesting that Buono laid most of the offensive blame on our philosophy and our running backs which mainly means Chap and Harris.
I think its a deflection away from our offensive line woes. I also don't have a lot of faith in Wally's interpretation. He coached our short yardage offensive unit for seasons and it was our worst performing unit every year and sometimes cost us dearly.

Wally knows we can't do much about our offensive line but he wants answers to overcome it. Not as easy thing to do for Chap or Harris. His recent solution was Logan. Now he wants Chap and Harris to also find ways to make our run game work.

I would really like to see what Chap, Harris, or Harris and Logan, and DeMarco right now, as well as our running game, our passing game, and our offence could do with an above average offensive line.

I would like to see our offensive line situation addressed next season. It was obvious when our offensive line was decent (but not great) in 2011 and in 2012 our scheme, our running back, and our offence worked very well. If our offence faltered with an improved offensive line next year, then perhaps coaching and running back changes would need to be made.

Kelly Bates showed last season that he was an excellent coach in working with our running backs and playing an important coaching role in our running attack as he introduced blocking changes as our co-offensive line coach in 2011. I really don't believe that Bates suddenly lost his abilities to coach the running attack this season after being the best at it last year.

We may be able to pull something off offensively for a playoff game or a couple of games but there are no fixes that will last until we address and improve our offensive line in the future.

[MexicoLionFan]

To JH, SP and Blitz...Chapdelaine has benefited from a ridiculous embarrassment of riches AND STABILITY under the Buono era...other OCs haven't ever received this...they coach from the basis that I must win tomorrow or the entire staff might be gone...but not in BC...Wally has brought the fans back, the talent back, and thus consistency in winning...all of the coaches under Buono's leadership have benefited from this, none more than Chapdelaine...whether it was Obie or Shivers, the Lions, under Wally, have brought more and better talent than any other team in the CFL for a decade...especially at QB...

This team, under Wally, has arguably squandered a lot of this talent and consistency by "only" winning 2 Cups here when it really should have been more...we have been outcoached consistently now for the last 5 years at least and it needs to change...Wally doesn't need to go...he's incredibly smart and savvy...his loyalty to his coaches needs to go...Wally has been RUTHLESS towards his players over his entire career, even his best players, but not so with his coaches...our STs under McMann have been below average, but McMann continues to coach here...our OLine hasn't developed a single OLine draft prospect until Kelly Bates arrived, but Dorazio continues to coach here...Chapdelaine is under HUGE HEAT every year as the OC, struggling for huge stretches of the season, and still hasn't found an answer to teams blitzing him for almost a decade, and yet he's still coaching...when Chaps left here, he was FIRED half way through the season in EDM...you don't think that's telling??? And yet the guy continues to coach here...

Wally does NOT use the same cold, business like approach with his coaches that has worked wonders on his players and I think this ONE THING explains why Wally has gotten to the big game so often and has a less than impressive record...way too often we have been out coached in big matches...that doesn't denigrate Wally's value to the Lion's...as JH and SP have said, these have been great years under Wally and I greatly appreciate them...but we haven't won the big prize as often as we should have, and I think this explains why...

[MexicoLionFan]

In Chaps first two seasons as our offensive coordinator our offence was very successful. In 2005 our offence was 2nd in the CFL and in 2006 it was the CFL`s best offence as we went on to win the 2006 Grey Cup.

Chap left at the end of 2006 to become the offensive coordinator and Associate Head Coach in Edmonton. We decided to share the offensive coordinator position between Kruck and Dorazio but it was Kruck who called the plays. We hired John Hugnagel as a consultant for our offence for that season. He was there to provide assistance to Kruck and Dorazio, coached at the 2007 training camp, and advised along the way that season.

We changed our offence. We became a run first offence with Joe Smith as our tailback. Dickenson and Pierce both got hurt early that season and we were forced to go to our 3rd string quarterback Jarious Jackson. Jackson had never started a game. However, we won 9 of our last 11 games that season with Jackson as our quarterback, who benefited greatly by our powerful running game.

I lied the change in direction. I felt the spread was past its due date. It had been very successful for Hugnagel and Cortez in the 90`s and early 2000`s but defenses were adjusting to it. I felt that we needed to come out of the spread and go more multi-formational and make adjustments to our scheme.

However Simon and Co. lobbied for the return of Chap. Perhaps they felt he was the best choice but I was concerned that there was also self-interest in their move, as JC was a spread offence disciple who was very pass oriented.

Chap returned as our receivers coach in name in 2008 but he called the plays and he was our offensive coordinator in reality from his return. Our offence began its slide as we returned to the spread. In 2009 our offence was 4th in the CFL, 5th in 2009, and 7th in 2010.

In 2011 we got off to another terrible start to the season and our offence was struggling. There were loud calls for Wally to retire as HC and for Chap to be gone. I would have been very happy to see Chap released.

However, off to a 1-6 start we made a number of changes. We aguired Arland Bruce and inserted Andrew Harris. Even more significantly Chap made serious changes to our scheme, going multi-formational and introducing more motion, misdirection, new running plays, more play action, more rollouts, and a new blocking scheme.

For the rest of the 2011 season our offence was the best in the CFL. It was even better in 2012, as we led the league in rushing and average yards per game. We were finally back to being the best offence in the league.

This season has been a struggle again for our offence. The key change has been our offensive line. We have been without our starting center. Kabongo became our starting guard with Hameister-Rees unable to play. Fabian, our starting right guartd was injured for the season and we had to insert Valii, who was coming off a second knee surgery. Olifoye also hurt his back and has played with the injury. Archibald`s play slipped.

If it was 2008 to early 2011 I would believe Chap needs to go. However, considering the offensive line situation this season and the way our offence played for most of the 2011 season and 2012 season, I hesitate to make that change.

I found it interesting that Buono laid most of the offensive blame on our philosophy and our running backs which mainly means Chap and Harris.
I think its a deflection away from our offensive line woes. I also don't have a lot of faith in Wally's interpretation. He coached our short yardage offensive unit for seasons and it was our worst performing unit every year and sometimes cost us dearly.

Wally knows we can't do much about our offensive line but he wants answers to overcome it. Not as easy thing to do for Chap or Harris. His recent solution was Logan. Now he wants Chap and Harris to also find ways to make our run game work.

I would really like to see what Chap, Harris, or Harris and Logan, and DeMarco right now, as well as our running game, our passing game, and our offence could do with an above average offensive line.

I would like to see our offensive line situation addressed next season. It was obvious when our offensive line was decent (but not great) in 2011 and in 2012 our scheme, our running back, and our offence worked very well. If our offence faltered with an improved offensive line next year, then perhaps coaching and running back changes would need to be made.

Kelly Bates showed last season that he was an excellent coach in working with our running backs and playing an important coaching role in our running attack as he introduced blocking changes as our co-offensive line coach in 2011. I really don't believe that Bates suddenly lost his abilities to coach the running attack this season after being the best at it last year.

We may be able to pull something off offensively for a playoff game or a couple of games but there are no fixes that will last until we address and improve our offensive line in the future.

Thanks so much Blitz...just remember, as Kelly Bates hasn't lost his ability to coach the RBs in one season, neither has Andrew Harris forgotten how to run the football...these are scheme issues through and through and a lack of execution/talent on the OLine...Wally's comments that the O problems lie with the Philosophy and the RBs cover the fact that he is the GM and the OLine is a complete mess because his lack of attention to it and Dorazio's coaching abilities...I don't like Chaps, but to throw him and essentially Harris under the bus like this and remain blind to his and Dorazio's contributions to this mess is ridiculous to say the least...

As I have now said for the last month or so, this thing is unravelling in BC, that can't be denied as these comments blatantly point out, and Wally is the GM...and you know what's funny...Little Wally, the HC, is like a missing person in all of this controversy...weird huh...

[Blitz]

Thanks so much Blitz...just remember, as Kelly Bates hasn't lost his ability to coach the RBs in one season, neither has Andrew Harris forgotten how to run the football MLF

I have never thought Andrew Harris has lost the ability to run the football. I think he lost a little initial burst this season with his additional 12 pounds but he is a tougher runner and he is still excellent in space.

My concerns with Harris was how he was handing adversity with his comments or actions...not his abilities. He is third in rushing as he was last season, he is a inegratl part of the passing attack, and while his rush average and pass average are reduced this season he is still 4th in yards from scrimmage.

I believed that adding Logan might help our running game so we could do some different things. I did not want Logan to replace Harris but to be a rotational back replacing Brown on some offensive series, to give Harris a breather or to work beside him in a two back set, as well as play on special teams..and only if he could help.

I'm also pleased to read that Harris just said that anything to help the team win is what he is now in favor of.

Its a short term way to try to improve things for this season. Logan is 32 and not the long term answer. The long term answer is to improve our offensive line .....as has been said many times.

[TheLionKing]

Refreshing to see Buono coming out and venting his frustrations about his underachieving team. He's even acknowledging it's the schemes....

[Big Time]

Yes, I was quite pleased to see Wally is clearly seeing what we all are seeing. Chap is well past his expiry date. Glad to hear him call out the schemes. I don't see how they can credibly move forward next year with Chap still on the staff. Harris has been brutal but I blame this on the scheme and the O-Line. Far too often he's basically being asked to run into a brick wall. No wonder he gets only 1 or 2 yards per carry. There are no effective screen plays, no hot routes, no misdirection. This is all on Chap. Maybe they should get Chap to run some of his own running plays to get a sense of what it's like to hit your heard constantly against a wall. I feel like every time I watch Chapball I'm doing the same thing.

Thanks for the extensive Chap history, Blitz. It highlights both the positives and negatives of Chapball. To me, the biggest negative is that the Lions could have had three or four championships in the last decade. Instead they have two with a whole series of missed opportunities. A 3-2 record when hosting the Western Final is disappointing to say the least. So many of their playoff losses were directly a result of the Chapball inability to make any meaningful adjustments on offense.

I'm being honest when I say that I'm holding off on renewing my season tickets until they make a decision to get rid of Chapdelaine. If he stays, I'm not sure I will. I'll still cheer and watch every game, but it will be on TV rather than in person. I've watched basically a decade of this Chap nonsense and I've had enough.

[Blitz]

...Wally's comments that the O problems lie with the Philosophy and the RBs cover the fact that he is the GM and the OLine is a complete mess because his lack of attention to it and Dorazio's coaching abilities...I don't like Chaps, but to throw him and essentially Harris under the bus like this and remain blind to his and Dorazio's contributions to this mess is ridiculous to say the least...

As I have now said for the last month or so, this thing is unravelling in BC, that can't be denied as these comments blatantly point out, and Wally is the GM...and you know what's funny...Little Wally, the HC, is like a missing person in all of this controversy...weird huh..MLF.

You can see Wally taking over.

Here are some additional thoghgts I have MLF, triggered by your post.

I have never liked Wally, I find him a hard man. He can be heartless. He is not a good x and o's guy at all. He was a terrible game manager. He can be very manipulative and he knows how to use the press. He is old school.

Howwever, overall, he has been very successful. He runs a tight organizational ship. He has high expectations. He is nobody's fool. You don't want to piss him off and there is something to be said about that.

Khalif Mitchell was not a problem under Wally. But he emerged as a head case last year. Andrew Harris has been a role model and suddenly this season he has not been his previous self. Sometimes young emotional players need structure. Benvedes tries to be a players coach. But he doesn't have presence.

You can get fooled by a positive style of coach like a Pete Carroll who is Mr. Positive and comes off as a players coach. But Carroll has presence and you don't piss him off.

As for Chap, I have always found him to be a cold fish, detached, clinical, technical. However, I look at results. I have been very critical of him when the results have not been there, when they have appeared that they should have been and supported him when I believed they were or were not mainly his fault.

You are right. Benevedes has been in the shadows. Wally is the one laying the pressure on the players. Wally brought in Wilson, Pierce, and Logan and threatened more changes. Wally is the one who is talking about how unhappy he is recently, whether it was the player's effort on the road, walking off the field, etc. etc. Benevedes has said squat or been supportive of his players, no matter what the performance.

Intersting how this season is evolving.

[MexicoLionFan]

We had the best offence in the CFL in 2006, 2007, and 2012. Those are the only seasons that I am aware of that our offence was the CFL's most dominant offence.

And in 2007 and 2012, JC was OC.

2012 was a built in 2011 when Chapdelaine was given the word to adjust or walk. Since then teams have caught up to the offensive schemes, or JC has fallen back into the beginning of 2011 play calling again. I was pleasantly pleased with the ending of 2011 and it was mainly due to the adjustments, and as much as I wanted to see JC gone earlier in the season, I gave him credit for finally utilizing the talent that the Lions had in a manner that allowed them to do more than just execute plays that the opposition was sitting on. JC is a stubborn individual and believes that he is of superior intelligence, as noted by his comment on being questioned about his play calling suggesting that it was his fault that the receiver fell. At some point he has to take ownership that his plays have the opposition jumping receiver routes, stuffing Harris because they know the play as the formation and personnel are substituted in. It is amazing to me that the Lions cannot attempt to deceive the opposition more than they do, it is more here is what we are going to run, try and stop us. That has worked to a degree with some Lion teams under Wally having incredible talent, far above any other CFL team, but when the Lions don't have the superior talent, they tend to struggle with just better talent than their counterpart.

Outstanding post Rammer...completely agree...

[MexicoLionFan]

...Wally's comments that the O problems lie with the Philosophy and the RBs cover the fact that he is the GM and the OLine is a complete mess because his lack of attention to it and Dorazio's coaching abilities...I don't like Chaps, but to throw him and essentially Harris under the bus like this and remain blind to his and Dorazio's contributions to this mess is ridiculous to say the least...

As I have now said for the last month or so, this thing is unravelling in BC, that can't be denied as these comments blatantly point out, and Wally is the GM...and you know what's funny...Little Wally, the HC, is like a missing person in all of this controversy...weird huh..MLF.

You can see Wally taking over.

Here are some additional thoghgts I have MLF, triggered by your post.

I have never liked Wally, I find him a hard man. He can be heartless. He is not a good x and o's guy at all. He was a terrible game manager. He can be very manipulative and he knows how to use the press. He is old school.

Howwever, overall, he has been very successful. He runs a tight organizational ship. He has high expectations. He is nobody's fool. You don't want to piss him off and there is something to be said about that.

Khalif Mitchell was not a problem under Wally. But he emerged as a head case last year. Andrew Harris has been a role model and suddenly this season he has not been his previous self. Sometimes young emotional players need structure. Benvedes tries to be a players coach. But he doesn't have presence.

You can get fooled by a positive style of coach like a Pete Carroll who is Mr. Positive and comes off as a players coach. But Carroll has presence and you don't piss him off.

As for Chap, I have always found him to be a cold fish, detached, clinical, technical. However, I look at results. I have been very critical of him when the results have not been there, when they have appeared that they should have been and supported him when I believed they were or were not mainly his fault.

You are right. Benevedes has been in the shadows. Wally is the one laying the pressure on the players. Wally brought in Wilson, Pierce, and Logan and threatened more changes. Wally is the one who is talking about how unhappy he is recently, whether it was the player's effort on the road, walking off the field, etc. etc. Benevedes has said squat or been supportive of his players, no matter what the performance.

Intersting how this season is evolving.

Again, great post Blitz...I concur with your analysis of Wally...he is NOT a Bill Walsh...he is an organizational tyrant that runs a tight, efficient ship that demands results, and its worked...but his lack of "coldness" to his coaching staff has cost him GC rings...this needs to change now that he is upstairs...this charade with Benevides is becoming clear for everyone to see...MB is simply Wally's "body" on the sidelines during the game...but the real running of this team lies with Wally...NOT a great football mind...and there are consequences...he can't challenge Chapdelaine's offensive system because Wally doesn't possess the ability to craft Chapdelaine's offensive system...and yes, there was a time that JC was a leader in Offensive strategy in the CFL...but once teams began blitzing on every down to combat its effects, his "effectiveness" went out the window...Chaps has had at least 6 years to adjust to the blitz and he simply hasn't done it...now, is that ignorance from an intelligent guy, or arrogance??? The result has been a litany of broken QBs from Dickenson down to Lulay...and that's just brutal...

[InUrFace]

I laugh at the fact half of you were against me when I say Chap needs to go ...now all of a sudden since Wally comes out with his 15m ...now you all decide to say Chap is the problem. You guys like to ride a coat tale...do your own observations, give your own opinions ...thats all good ...but dont go back on your word and your comments soon as you see Wally comes out with the truth. I call these individuals fake ...and are just trying to take Wally's side no matter which direction he goes. What joke! Mexicolionfan Im glad you stick to your guns like me. We see the true nature whats wrong and whats right with this team and we tell it how it is...I appreciate those who do...Be a leader not a follower ...thats what I say. Now since thats said. MB is not a real coach ...Wally is still coaching this team. The GM shouldnt of been saying these things for 15m it should of came from the HC...any other HC in the league ...would of done so. MB is also a problem. He will continue looking like a cheerleader ...and to friendly to players instead of aggressiveness and give them a ear full. This HC should of never been a HC to begin with. These are my thoughts ...my comments and for you all saying im a new poster ...better look back in 2010. Now who feels the same about MB...? Say we do win ...all these games left and western final. Who really in their right mind still wants Chap back next year? Who would like to see outside the box ...someone come in that hasnt been apart of this organization and close to Wally? Done and Done!

[notahomer]

Reading Wiles piece (15 minutes to fume with WB) in todays paper was quite enjoyable. I have had my less informed attitude for months (and during other seasons too!) but to hear him FUMING felt good. I'm glad somebody with passion is heading the ship. Passion is an important part of many jobs. This thread is about Andrew Harris and I only bring that up because he seems to exhibit passion too. Whether its mis-directed, not enough, too much etc... is not for me to say.

What I like about certain players (Bighill, Sol E, Marsh, Paris J, etc...) is that football passion. You can see it. In fact you need a good level of it to even stay on as a practice roster member but there are a bunch of Lions who have it. I hope they can translate that passion and realization changes are happening in the offseason regardless, into doing something inspiring during the playoffs......

[TheLionKing]

I'm being honest when I say that I'm holding off on renewing my season tickets until they make a decision to get rid of Chapdelaine. If he stays, I'm not sure I will. I'll still cheer and watch every game, but it will be on TV rather than in person. I've watched basically a decade of this Chap nonsense and I've had enough.

Me as well.

[TheLionKing]

I laugh at the fact half of you were against me when I say Chap needs to go ...now all of a sudden since Wally comes out with his 15m ...now you all decide to say Chap is the problem. You guys like to ride a coat tale...do your own observations, give your own opinions ...thats all good ...but dont go back on your word and your comments soon as you see Wally comes out with the truth. I call these individuals fake ...and are just trying to take Wally's side no matter which direction he goes. What joke! Mexicolionfan Im glad you stick to your guns like me. We see the true nature whats wrong and whats right with this team and we tell it how it is...I appreciate those who do...Be a leader not a follower ...thats what I say. Now since thats said. MB is not a real coach ...Wally is still coaching this team. The GM shouldnt of been saying these things for 15m it should of came from the HC...any other HC in the league ...would of done so. MB is also a problem. He will continue looking like a cheerleader ...and to friendly to players instead of aggressiveness and give them a ear full. This HC should of never been a HC to begin with. These are my thoughts ...my comments and for you all saying im a new poster ...better look back in 2010. Now who feels the same about MB...? Say we do win ...all these games left and western final. Who really in their right mind still wants Chap back next year? Who would like to see outside the box ...someone come in that hasnt been apart of this organization and close to Wally? Done and Done!

I have never been a fan of Chapdelaine and his predictable offence. I told Buono that in our meeting.