Lions 35 - Riders 32 -- Post Game Stats and Comments

[B.C.FAN]

FWIW, a lot of fans who walked out early were wearing green. At the end of regulation, people in our section noticed a heavy flow of green jerseys toward the exits and were asking each other why Rider fans were leaving.

[CardiacKid]

Just heard Andrew Harris Saying on 1040 that to all the fans that left his quote is " they gave up on us" , Way to go Andrew that is exactly how it is to many fickle fans in this city they are known to leave early. should be ashamed of yourselves. ( I had to work all night so do not come back on me saying were was I . )

I didn't like seeing him tweet about that. He shouldn't have even brought up the matter at all. But if he insisted on talking about it, he should have taken the high road and instead thanked the fans who stuck around and helped cheer the team on to victory. Moreover complaining about fans leaving early shows poor focus: it's not his job to monitor what's going on in the stands; he should just keep his head in the game.

Telling those fans to, and I quote from his tweet, "Give your head a shake!" — really? How does a tweet like that encourage the ticket-buying public to pony up for the next game?

Harris is entitled to his opinion as is anyone else but he needs to be aware they have ramifications. He also needs to know that the support of the fans will take different forms that he is not aware of.
As for feeling ashamed, I am quite prepared to stand by my support and love for the team. How do we prove it?!?! Well let's see.....

-We have been making the trek over from Victoria for several years for every home game with the expense of the ferry and the occasional hotel stay;
-I sometimes have to forego a days' worth of income to make the game when it is on a weekday;
-We plan holidays and family events around the Lions schedule;
-We have spent several hundred $ on Lions gear just to show how much we love the Lions. In fact I have been asked if I work for Lions based on all the gear I wear;
-An entire room of Lions memorabilia that probably cost me a few $1,000 but I don't care;
-My wife arranged for the Lions to come to her school because she thought they are great role models and could help kids aspire to truly positive things;

I am not trying to make us out to be super fans. I simply wanted to say there are lots of people who do similar and other things to show their love of the Lions who just may have been among those who left before the bitter end. So let's avoid the finger pointing and try to remember that everyone who was under the dome that night was a fan of some colour.

[WestCoastJoe]

Well said, CardiacKid.

The perspective of a family very loyal to the Lions in thousands of ways. Best for the players to remember that before they speak out.

Players see fans leaving, and feel somewhat abandoned. But those fans pay the salaries and keep the league alive. And some of those fans leave early because they have not been given reason for a lot of hope lately. Sometimes the game looks like a lost cause. And some fans leave for a variety of other reasons. But they bought the tickets.

It is not all about the athletes.

Put on a good show and the crowd grows. Put on a good show, over and over, and more people stay to the end. What is that saying: "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

It is not a one-sided issue. And of course athletes want and need support.

[David]

I just watched the game again. The last Rider touchdown led to the mass exodus - it was a 10 yard run by Anthony Allen that was like a hot knife through butter. How deflating! Then after the ensuing kick-off (which we could only run back to the 25 with just a couple of minutes left on the clock), we ran a play and Tristan Jackson goes down hurt. More time/reason for fans to leave.

I wish others were there with me and those around me to celebrate the most improbable comeback win, possibly in team history, but again, I really don't blame them for leaving that long, drawn out flag fest. I don't think anyone in the organization should publicly complain about it.


DH

[B.C.FAN]

I just watched the game again. The last Rider touchdown led to the mass exodus - it was a 10 yard run by Anthony Allen that was like a hot knife through butter. How deflating!

That touchdown was scored right in front of me. I loudly booed the defence when they let Allen score so easily and yelled at them to step up their game. It's not often I boo the Lions but I was frustrated at the poor defensive effort and I don't blame fans who went home. Fortunately, no one in my section left early. We were all there to share the elation and exchange high-fives when the Lions pulled off the comeback.

[sj-roc]

Well said, CardiacKid.

The perspective of a family very loyal to the Lions in thousands of ways. Best for the players to remember that before they speak out.

Players see fans leaving, and feel somewhat abandoned. But those fans pay the salaries and keep the league alive. And some of those fans leave early because they have not been given reason for a lot of hope lately. Sometimes the game looks like a lost cause. And some fans leave for a variety of other reasons. But they bought the tickets.

It is not all about the athletes.

Put on a good show and the crowd grows. Put on a good show, over and over, and more people stay to the end. What is that saying: "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

It is not a one-sided issue. And of course athletes want and need support.

Agreed, WCJ. It's funny how some folks bag on others for leaving the game early. Other fans are probably more guilty of it than the players. But do people get bagged on for leaving early if it's a concert, or a movie, or a private house party that's still in full swing? I've been to my share of these other events and I'm not aware that this ever happens. Yet someone leaves the game early and sure enough the comments will come. Harris's tweet drew several fan responses, one of which was: "Don't confuse spectators with fans. Fans always stay until the last play." Prime example of someone playing the "Oh you're not a *real* fan!" card. Well, so what? It's as if being a "real fan" of a sports team is somehow the most virtuous thing to which anyone in our society could aspire. It's not. We need to quit pretending as though it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, either. It's not inherently evil. But neither does it somehow anoint one as some sort of paragon of moral integrity. It just is. Bagging on someone for not being a "real fan" is like bagging on someone for not being a "real hi-def tv owner".

It's a completely empty comment, totally void of any informative quality as to the character of the person being described. I suppose being a "real fan" can be a way of being part of a community of other like-minded folks. But there are plenty of things that are several 100x more virtuous. Donating to charity. Volunteering your time to help people with disabilities. Being a good role model for your kids. But being a "real fan" is just a thing. You can be one if you so like, that's fine. But it's not something where some self-appointed arbiter gets to decide who belongs and who doesn't, in such a way that carries some sort of value judgement.

For some reason we tend to treat sports differently from other activities, and to treat them in isolation from these other things (as per my above concert/etc analogy). I try to view sports as part of a larger picture that *includes* all these other things. Maybe I'm going against the grain by taking such an approach, but I find it makes me think in ways I hadn't considered before. It's akin to the sort of thinking that Jerry Seinfeld engaged in with his "cheering for laundry" observation.

[Toppy Vann]

There are two guys on that offense that come off a bit too much arrogant and not justified yet - given this Lion team's record. Harris and Arceneaux - both good players.

I'll take Lulay and other guys take on the OFF side when they admit they're not yet there over Harris and Arceneaux. Hey it's there egos speaking - I get it but I see other teams with REC that speak to the team more. Bighill, Sol E too - are more team guys on the DEF. Love that talk.

[Blitz]

I've been celebrating and digesting our Leos come from behind exciting victory over the Riders for a couple of days now, as well as reading Lionbackers thoughts and analysis of our first win of the season.

A few thoughts are:

When Travis Lulay hit Austin Collie for a 46 yard touchdown pass witha little over 2 minutes remaining it was an exciting play but it seemed like a little too late. Our Leos once again had wasted two many red zone opportunities against a Riders defense that had previously given up 8 touchdowns in 8 previous red zone attempts in its first two games and our defense, under Mark Washington had been conservative, vanilla, and porous once again.

But two key plays changed the outcome of this game. The first was the exceptional play by Adam Bighill, who timed his hit perfectly and shut down the Riders third down attempt. The game is over if Bighill doesn't make that play.

The second play was the 56 yard field goal by Leone. Tedford made the key call rather than gamble on third and five. Our offence had stalled and hadn't taken advantage of Bighil's created turnover. The script looked like a valiant comeback attempt that just fell short.

But Leone, an inexperienced field goal kicker with a strong leg put the football through the uprights with 5 yards to spare, coming through in a pressure situation and setting a Lions record in the process.

The Bighill hit that led to the Riders turnover on downs and allowed our Leos comeback also payed psychological dividends in overtime. It intimidated Chamblin to not gamble on third and short in overtime. Instead he settled for a field goal and gave our Leos the opportunity to score a touchdown, which we did, to win the game in overtime.

Key plays that were so vital to our comeback victory.

Still, our Leos had to do a number of good things, outside of those key plays, to win this game.

The following stood out for me.

1. TEDFORD'S INFLUENCE ON LULAY

Jeff Tedford came to B.C. with an outstading reputation as a quarterback developer. In Travis Lulay's second game of the season, after so much rust, he had perhaps his best game in a Leo uniform. Lulay was 34/44 and had a 145 quarterback efficiency rating. That rating for one game was higher than any game he played in 2011, when he won the MOP, or in 2012, when we won the West and we had the best offence in the CFL.

What was impressive was Lulay's reads and progressions, his quicker release, and his lack of hesitation when throwing to his second read, if his first read was not there.

Tedford has handled Lulay's previous shoulder injury with foresight and insight. Tedford has also done a lot of quarterback coaching and given Lulay the kind of attention to detail that he needed. The quarterback drills that Tedford has introduced have also created simulated game situations that are enhancing our quarterback skills.

This was a game that Lulay needed, our offence needed, and our team needed.

2. USING ALL OF OUR OFFENSIVE WEAPONS

In our first game of the season our offence was very Arsenault and Collie centered in the passing attack. In "Keys to the Game' it was pointed out that we needed to diversity our passing attack and incorporate our H Back into our offence. Against the Riders we used all of our receivers, spread the football around, and utilized Harris effectively out of the backfield. The Riders could not key on any one player or two and that diversity really helped our offence to move the football and eventually win the game due to it.

3. OFFENSIVE LINE PROTECTION

For the second game in a row our offensive line provided very good protection and that protection was improved from Game 1. This line looks like its going to gel. Draheim had an excellent game as did Foster. Our inside pass protection from Player and Fabian picked up blitzes so much better than in the past.

Our run blocking was also improved and will take time to develop, with three new faces in the lineup but with Harris hitting holes with more sharpness this game and with our offensive line looking more synchronized, our running game should continue to progress. Malone is an excellent line coach and his coaching abilities are already being reflected in our offensive line play.

4. DEFENSE

We know that there is a lot of talent on our defense. Our linebacking crew is the CFL's best and we are using more of our personell depth at linebacker in new packages. Our defensive backfield is improved in terms of talent from last season, with Parks back at wideside corner and Ronnie Yell starting the season at corner. The safety position has been shored up.

We still need a defensive tackle that can penetrate. We've had to go with Roh, a converted defensive end, as a starter for our first two games at the tackle position. We don't have a dominating rush end who can create havoc.

But overall, this is a defense that should be better than it is at present. I really believe that our defense played well at the start of last season as a carry over from Rich Stubler, no differently than our Leos 2012 team played well under Benevedes in 2012. However, as time went on the cracks began to show under Benevedes and the cracks began to show at the end of last season under Washington.

More than personell, I really believe our defensive philosophy is the heart of the issue. Really, when our defense plays well its really mostly due to our athletes on defense making great plays. But our defensive strategiies are mostly not taking full advantage of our strengths.

Tedford has had to focus a lot of his attention to our offence so far this season. But eventually he is going to have to have to turn more of his attention to our defense in order for our Leos team to make the big jump.

But this game was a confidence booster. It was a win our Leos needed and it was the type of win that can really galvanize and excite a team and bring it together. Hopefully that has happened.

[MexicoLionFan]

I've been celebrating and digesting our Leos come from behind exciting victory over the Riders for a couple of days now, as well as reading Lionbackers thoughts and analysis of our first win of the season.

A few thoughts are:

When Travis Lulay hit Austin Collie for a 46 yard touchdown pass witha little over 2 minutes remaining it was an exciting play but it seemed like a little too late. Our Leos once again had wasted two many red zone opportunities against a Riders defense that had previously given up 8 touchdowns in 8 previous red zone attempts in its first two games and our defense, under Mark Washington had been conservative, vanilla, and porous once again.

But two key plays changed the outcome of this game. The first was the exceptional play by Adam Bighill, who timed his hit perfectly and shut down the Riders third down attempt. The game is over if Bighill doesn't make that play.

The second play was the 56 yard field goal by Leone. Tedford made the key call rather than gamble on third and five. Our offence had stalled and hadn't taken advantage of Bighil's created turnover. The script looked like a valiant comeback attempt that just fell short.

But Leone, an inexperienced field goal kicker with a strong leg put the football through the uprights with 5 yards to spare, coming through in a pressure situation and setting a Lions record in the process.

The Bighill hit that led to the Riders turnover on downs and allowed our Leos comeback also payed psychological dividends in overtime. It intimidated Chamblin to not gamble on third and short in overtime. Instead he settled for a field goal and gave our Leos the opportunity to score a touchdown, which we did, to win the game in overtime.

Key plays that were so vital to our comeback victory.

Still, our Leos had to do a number of good things, outside of those key plays, to win this game.

The following stood out for me.

1. TEDFORD'S INFLUENCE ON LULAY

Jeff Tedford came to B.C. with an outstading reputation as a quarterback developer. In Travis Lulay's second game of the season, after so much rust, he had perhaps his best game in a Leo uniform. Lulay was 34/44 and had a 145 quarterback efficiency rating. That rating for one game was higher than any game he played in 2011, when he won the MOP, or in 2012, when we won the West and we had the best offence in the CFL.

What was impressive was Lulay's reads and progressions, his quicker release, and his lack of hesitation when throwing to his second read, if his first read was not there.

Tedford has handled Lulay's previous shoulder injury with foresight and insight. Tedford has also done a lot of quarterback coaching and given Lulay the kind of attention to detail that he needed. The quarterback drills that Tedford has introduced have also created simulated game situations that are enhancing our quarterback skills.

This was a game that Lulay needed, our offence needed, and our team needed.

2. USING ALL OF OUR OFFENSIVE WEAPONS

In our first game of the season our offence was very Arsenault and Collie centered in the passing attack. In "Keys to the Game' it was pointed out that we needed to diversity our passing attack and incorporate our H Back into our offence. Against the Riders we used all of our receivers, spread the football around, and utilized Harris effectively out of the backfield. The Riders could not key on any one player or two and that diversity really helped our offence to move the football and eventually win the game due to it.

3. OFFENSIVE LINE PROTECTION

For the second game in a row our offensive line provided very good protection and that protection was improved from Game 1. This line looks like its going to gel. Draheim had an excellent game as did Foster. Our inside pass protection from Player and Fabian picked up blitzes so much better than in the past.

Our run blocking was also improved and will take time to develop, with three new faces in the lineup but with Harris hitting holes with more sharpness this game and with our offensive line looking more synchronized, our running game should continue to progress. Malone is an excellent line coach and his coaching abilities are already being reflected in our offensive line play.

4. DEFENSE

We know that there is a lot of talent on our defense. Our linebacking crew is the CFL's best and we are using more of our personell depth at linebacker in new packages. Our defensive backfield is improved in terms of talent from last season, with Parks back at wideside corner and Ronnie Yell starting the season at corner. The safety position has been shored up.

We still need a defensive tackle that can penetrate. We've had to go with Roh, a converted defensive end, as a starter for our first two games at the tackle position. We don't have a dominating rush end who can create havoc.

But overall, this is a defense that should be better than it is at present. I really believe that our defense played well at the start of last season as a carry over from Rich Stubler, no differently than our Leos 2012 team played well under Benevedes in 2012. However, as time went on the cracks began to show under Benevedes and the cracks began to show at the end of last season under Washington.

More than personell, I really believe our defensive philosophy is the heart of the issue. Really, when our defense plays well its really mostly due to our athletes on defense making great plays. But our defensive strategiies are mostly not taking full advantage of our strengths.

Tedford has had to focus a lot of his attention to our offence so far this season. But eventually he is going to have to have to turn more of his attention to our defense in order for our Leos team to make the big jump.

But this game was a confidence booster. It was a win our Leos needed and it was the type of win that can really galvanize and excite a team and bring it together. Hopefully that has happened.

Outstanding Blitz, you captured my thoughts completely...I have very little else to add other than...

I have said a lot about my feelings on Mark Washington...IMO he is a liability on this football team until such time that Tedford gets involved with the Defensive game planning. Remember, as Blitz said, if Bighill doesn't make that great play (which affected Chamblin's decisions in OT), we lose again!

Also, what a phenomenal game by Leone...as a former kicker as well, WOW. His kickoffs, his punts and then his FGs...and I think Blitz that 56 yarder might have made it from 63...I looked at it again, and think it would have just made it over!

[WestCoastJoe]

1. TEDFORD'S INFLUENCE ON LULAY

Jeff Tedford came to B.C. with an outstading reputation as a quarterback developer. In Travis Lulay's second game of the season, after so much rust, he had perhaps his best game in a Leo uniform. Lulay was 34/44 and had a 145 quarterback efficiency rating. That rating for one game was higher than any game he played in 2011, when he won the MOP, or in 2012, when we won the West and we had the best offence in the CFL.

Tedford has handled Lulay's previous shoulder injury with foresight and insight. Tedford has also done a lot of quarterback coaching and given Lulay the kind of attention to detail that he needed. The quarterback drills that Tedford has introduced have also created simulated game situations that are enhancing our quarterback skills.

3. OFFENSIVE LINE PROTECTION

For the second game in a row our offensive line provided very good protection and that protection was improved from Game 1. This line looks like its going to gel. Draheim had an excellent game as did Foster. Our inside pass protection from Player and Fabian picked up blitzes so much better than in the past.

4. DEFENSE

More than personell, I really believe our defensive philosophy is the heart of the issue. Really, when our defense plays well its really mostly due to our athletes on defense making great plays. But our defensive strategiies are mostly not taking full advantage of our strengths.

Outstanding Blitz, you captured my thoughts completely...I have very little else to add other than...

I have said a lot about my feelings on Mark Washington...IMO he is a liability on this football team until such time that Tedford gets involved with the Defensive game planning. Remember, as Blitz said, if Bighill doesn't make that great play (which affected Chamblin's decisions in OT), we lose again!

Also, what a phenomenal game by Leone...as a former kicker as well, WOW. His kickoffs, his punts and then his FGs...and I think Blitz that 56 yarder might have made it from 63...I looked at it again, and think it would have just made it over!

As always, I was looking forward for you two guys to weigh in. I have summarized a bit to save some space.

Re Tedford's influence on Lulay Agreed, Blitz. Most noticeable. Lulay has been very decisive in the pocket. Moves around well as always. Incredible performance vs Saskatchewan. As with all fans, I am very, very happy he has this chance to play once again.

Also, as Toppy and I have harped on, it is gratifying to hear Tedford talk about the drills they put Lulay through to protect himself. QBs must resist the impulse to be a physical hero. Get down. Slide. Get out of bounds. Know how to fall. The QB is most valuable when healthy.

Re O Line protection ... Very noticeable. Solid. Assignments clearly understood. No confusion. Use your physical assets. As time goes on, I fully expect Malone to develop our National talent, allowing us much more ratio flexibility.

Re MW's defence ... Porous. Weak against both the pass and the run. Playing it safe. Not an attacking defence, and about the farthest thing from that. My experience is that many coaches talk about "attacking," but that when it comes down to it, they cannot bring themselves to run an aggressive defence. You need an "all in" mindset, such as that of Don Matthews or Chris Jones. You must commit to it. You must believe in it. You must have confidence in it. And you must get your players to buy into it. If the coach does not have that belief, then of course they should play it more conservatively. And IMO playing it safe on defence leads to slow death on the field.

[DanoT]

I have always been a Mark Washington fan, going back to his playing days when late in his career he was like a player/coach for the Lions. However I am loosing patience with aggressive D that isn't aggressive at all.

OTOH the sieve that is the D line is not MW's fault and until the D line can be dominate, it will be difficult to be aggressive or successful on D.

[sj-roc]

Not to beat this Harris tweet thing to death but I had a look at some other players' twitter reactions after the game:

What a team win! Offense, Defense, Special Teams. Big shout out to all the @BCLions fans in @bcplace the #ROAR was great to hear!

Awesome 2 hear the ROAR @bcplace 2nite, huge win for our club! Hilite of the night? My wife caught the OT TD ball Manny threw into stands!

The ROAR is back in BC PLACE! #FanAppreciation

Very proud of our entire organization tonight. Great win! And thank you to our fans, you make us stronger! Go @BCLions !!!!

All deferential to the fans. Another thing these tweets have in common: they were all retweeted from GM WB's account.

[Blitz]

Re Tedford's influence on Lulay Agreed, Blitz. Most noticeable. Lulay has been very decisive in the pocket. Moves around well as always. Incredible performance vs Saskatchewan. As with all fans, I am very, very happy he has this chance to play once again. WCJ

You have posted numerous times in the past WCJ that we needed to bring in a HC who had a knowledge of offensive x and o's and Tedford certainly has that knowledge, as well as the ability to develop or enhance the skill set of quarterbacks. If Lualy can continue to stay healthy we should have the best of both worlds. Lulay is a leader, athletic, and very studious. He has always wanted to learn. In 2010, as a third string quarterback at the time, he almost lived in the video room, analysing defenses and coverages.

I also think its been difficult for any quarterback to play behind Dorazio's offensive line since 2004. We gave up the most sacks of any CFL team during the Dorazio era in B.C. Lulay got some decent protection at times in 2011 but that was about it. Constant pressure, sacks, the need to escape can eventually make a quarterback jumpy...even a very poised one. Lulay lookes so much calmer in the pocket this season so far. Perhaps that's due to the extra split second or more of time he is getting, perhaps Tedford is helping Lulay take some of the pressure off that Lulay has always carried but he looks happy confident, more relaxed, and rejuvinated. Even though are red zone offence was not good for most of our first two games we've made some big plays on offence and that is a very good sign.

Lulay is also working with a new center and two new receivers - Collie and Morrah as well as Gore playing a new position. Familiarity will take time but already he is developing chemistry with them. Lulay really hasn't had a ton of time with Arsenault either.

Defensively I agree with MLF. Our defensive philosophy has to change. While the new CFL pass defense rules dictate more zone coverage (which we love to use) the new rules do not do any favors for a defense that can't get pressure on a quarterback.

Frankly I'm tired of the focus being mostly about our defensive line. Even with a rotation, mosty rushing four defensive lineman against five offensive lineman and often a back or reciever chip blocking as well is not a recipe for constant pressure unless you have a Cameron Wake or a real stud pass rusher.

We don't. Until we do, there are other ways to get pressure without making great sacrifices to the back end. We could rush five often, using a great blitzer like Bighill and a smart blitzer like Johnson. Lokombo has the ability to blitz as does Hoffman-Ellis. Eliminian can be used as well and he is more effective that way than in pass coverage.

We could also use zone blitzes, dropping off a player like Bazzie into an underneath zone while blitzing a linebacker. We used to do that even with Cameron Wake and Ritchie even did it with Brent Johnson. There are innovative ways to bring pressure without bringing the house and playing high risk defense.

[Hambone]

I just watched the game again. The last Rider touchdown led to the mass exodus - it was a 10 yard run by Anthony Allen that was like a hot knife through butter. How deflating! Then after the ensuing kick-off (which we could only run back to the 25 with just a couple of minutes left on the clock), we ran a play and Tristan Jackson goes down hurt. More time/reason for fans to leave.

I wish others were there with me and those around me to celebrate the most improbable comeback win, possibly in team history, but again, I really don't blame them for leaving that long, drawn out flag fest. I don't think anyone in the organization should publicly complain about it.


DH

The exodus after Allen's TD didn't surprise me nearly as much as the second exodus at the end of regulation. That was bizarre. A group of 4 right in front of me (2 male adults in their 40s/50s and two boys around 11) bolted. All were decked out in Lions' orange t-shirts. I've never left any of the 400+ sporting events I've attended early no matter how lopsided the score. Well at least I've never prematurely left any that didn't involve a soccer ball. The only soccer game I've ever attended, the 1983 NASL Soccer Bowl, is the only premature evacuation blemish on my sports fan resume. I just know not all of those early exiters chose to watch the balance of the game and OT from the concourse TV screens.

[Blitz]

It looks like Morrah is gone for the season....a helmet on knee hit on the lasst play of regulation.

This means that Leonard will take over as a tight end and there is no backup. Adekelo would have to take Leonard's place right now if he got hurt but he is not a tight end.

We are going to have to go looking for a 250 pound tight end who can block, run patterns, go deep, as well as underneath, and has good hands. We'll also have to get this player up to speed.

The H Back Tight End offence has numerous advantages but there is only room for one starter and one import on the practice roster. Its not an easy position to fill or get up to speed.

Morrah had four catches against Regina. Its not good news. Leonard is more raw but looked good in camp. But the H Back offence is going to have to undergo serious adjustments if Leonard gets hurt.