Any Doubters That Buono Has Lost Control?

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WestCoastJoe
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Toppy Vann wrote: Why is this a troll thread? Why can't he post his thoughts? It is not like others haven't pretty much said similar kinds of things.

Where do you draw the line on this type of talk? Geroy doesn't feel this way. Should Geroy come out and say the opposite? That sort of stuff by Reid divides teams. Players play, coaches coach. When the lines start blurring as to who is talking for the team and who is playing you know you have issues.
:whs:

Many strong opinions being expressed. Fair enough. Although if we snipe at each other, we are about the same as the Lions' dressing room.

Area51 is entitled to blog here. He doesn't pick fights. He doesn't use bad language.
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Area51
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ziggy wrote:Area51 I get that you somehow feel the Ricky Foley was mistreated by the Lions and therefore Wally must pay the price. I still think Wally is a pretty good judge of players and think you may be blinded by your relationship to Foley. In one of you first posts you said "I wouldn't hand the starters job at DE to Wake just yet. Let's see what happens in Edmonton tomorrow. Obviously Wake's got a spot on the dress roster locked up, but there's no way he's going to see the kind of reps that BJ will get at the other end spot.".
Later you stated words to the effect that while Wake had a good showing against Toronto IIRC, so would our kicker against such a weak line. All these postings were because you wanted Foley ahead of Wake. Clearly Wally was right in chosing Wake over Foley but you can't let it go. Look back at some of the posts you've made about other players and coaches then ask yourself if you'd like to read them about Foley.

My issue with Buono is way beyond anything to do with any individual player. My belief is that Buono makes many of his judgements based on favouritism and personal disliking. How else can you explain the limitless slack given to Glatt & Chapdelaine? I watched Glatt struggle constantly with an inability to make plays at MLB, and I've watched Chapdelaine struggle constantly to put together an effective offence. Both were/are hurting the team - - would you or anyone else disagree - - but both were/are given preferential treatment by Buono and allowed to fumble along in their roles. Then you have the examples of Jamal Johnson & Ricky - - stuck on the bench when they would have clearly made the team better by getting playing time. Are you and anyone else here naive enough to try and argue Buono doesn't play favourites?

Then there's the strongarm tactics Buono uses to supress any kind of questioning of his methods. Ever see any players speak out against schemes and not get cut for it? And trying to control the media by giving certain media members a hard time - - those are the methods of a paranoid dictator.

What about bad mouthing players after cutting them - - how do you justify that? It's one thing for a washed up and ineffective Angus Reid to shoot his mouth off, but for Buono to do it? Again, hurting the team. O'Bilovich gladly picked up these Buono castoffs to rebuild in Hamilton - - any coincidence that Hamilton has been so jacked to play BC this year and last, intent on showing up Buono?

What about refusing to ever accept any blame for losses? It's always the players not executing. Put them in a position to execute! Your QB gets pounded into the ground for the past 5 years....the short yardage team can't manage to pick up one yard in five tries at the end of the game in Montreal....forget about the FG, let's win the WDC with a single. Where's the ownership from Buono?

I call out players & coaches based on what I see. Ineffective play/coaching, stupid/selfish decision making....I'm all over them. Please, the next time you see Ricky quit on a play or take a 15yd personal foul or refuse to play hurt or rip a teammate in the media, by all means criticize him mercilessly. The most destructive thing he's done to his teams is ask for an opportunity to play - - and then put up on the field once he finally gets the chance. Maybe you can think of some past examples to share with us?

Until then, I'll continue to call out every example of Buono's misguided attempts to maintain his grasp of power in BC - - and if that upsets his supporters his friends or his family, sorry about your luck.
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Area51 wrote:My issue with Buono is way beyond anything to do with any individual player. My belief is that Buono makes many of his judgements based on favouritism and personal disliking. How else can you explain the limitless slack given to Glatt & Chapdelaine? I watched Glatt struggle constantly with an inability to make plays at MLB, and I've watched Chapdelaine struggle constantly to put together an effective offence. Both were/are hurting the team - - would you or anyone else disagree - - but both were/are given preferential treatment by Buono and allowed to fumble along in their roles. Then you have the examples of Jamal Johnson & Ricky - - stuck on the bench when they would have clearly made the team better by getting playing time. Are you and anyone else here naive enough to try and argue Buono doesn't play favourites?

Then there's the strongarm tactics Buono uses to supress any kind of questioning of his methods. Ever see any players speak out against schemes and not get cut for it? And trying to control the media by giving certain media members a hard time - - those are the methods of a paranoid dictator.

What about bad mouthing players after cutting them - - how do you justify that? It's one thing for a washed up and ineffective Angus Reid to shoot his mouth off, but for Buono to do it? Again, hurting the team. O'Bilovich gladly picked up these Buono castoffs to rebuild in Hamilton - - any coincidence that Hamilton has been so jacked to play BC this year and last, intent on showing up Buono?

What about refusing to ever accept any blame for losses? It's always the players not executing. Put them in a position to execute! Your QB gets pounded into the ground for the past 5 years....the short yardage team can't manage to pick up one yard in five tries at the end of the game in Montreal....forget about the FG, let's win the WDC with a single. Where's the ownership from Buono?

I call out players & coaches based on what I see. Ineffective play/coaching, stupid/selfish decision making....I'm all over them. Please, the next time you see Ricky quit on a play or take a 15yd personal foul or refuse to play hurt or rip a teammate in the media, by all means criticize him mercilessly. The most destructive thing he's done to his teams is ask for an opportunity to play - - and then put up on the field once he finally gets the chance. Maybe you can think of some past examples to share with us?

Until then, I'll continue to call out every example of Buono's misguided attempts to maintain his grasp of power in BC - - and if that upsets his supporters his friends or his family, sorry about your luck.
I disagree with most of what you say, but fair enough. No hard feelings.

Regarding the players Buono has cast off, I never heard him badmouth any of those who have been picked up by other teams. I haven't seen anyone rushing to pick up Walter Stith.

I find it refreshing to get honest opinions. He was very respectful of Ricky Foley's change of heart when he could have trashed Foley. He'll usually let you know how he sees things, and I respect that as a paying fan.
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Area51 wrote:
My issue with Buono is way beyond anything to do with any individual player. My belief is that Buono makes many of his judgements based on favouritism and personal disliking. How else can you explain the limitless slack given to Glatt & Chapdelaine? I watched Glatt struggle constantly with an inability to make plays at MLB, and I've watched Chapdelaine struggle constantly to put together an effective offence. Both were/are hurting the team - - would you or anyone else disagree - - but both were/are given preferential treatment by Buono and allowed to fumble along in their roles. Then you have the examples of Jamal Johnson & Ricky - - stuck on the bench when they would have clearly made the team better by getting playing time. Are you and anyone else here naive enough to try and argue Buono doesn't play favourites?
Don't forget Gary Butler and Robert Jordan
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Area51 is entitled to blog here.
True. Otherwise he wouldn't be here.
WestCoastJoe wrote:He doesn't pick fights.
You aren't reading all that many of his posts if you believe that. Add to that you agree with him in that you both want Wally fired, you for your reasons, he for the fact that he feels Wally did Ricky Phony wrong.
WestCoastJoe wrote: He doesn't use bad language.
That's because there is a word censor here, and the Mods do a good job.

If you think he started this thread just for the benefit of Lions fans, you are mistaken. He has one motivation only.

Normally, I would discuss this via PM, but some here need a push to go and look for themselves it seems.
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TheLionKing wrote:
Area51 wrote:
My issue with Buono is way beyond anything to do with any individual player. My belief is that Buono makes many of his judgements based on favouritism and personal disliking. How else can you explain the limitless slack given to Glatt & Chapdelaine? I watched Glatt struggle constantly with an inability to make plays at MLB, and I've watched Chapdelaine struggle constantly to put together an effective offence. Both were/are hurting the team - - would you or anyone else disagree - - but both were/are given preferential treatment by Buono and allowed to fumble along in their roles. Then you have the examples of Jamal Johnson & Ricky - - stuck on the bench when they would have clearly made the team better by getting playing time. Are you and anyone else here naive enough to try and argue Buono doesn't play favourites?
Don't forget Gary Butler and Robert Jordan
Or Wake if you believe this guy is a better judge of talent. He thought Wally was wrong to start Cam ahead of Foley, so yeah he sussed out Butler but he eventually had to be right because he said the same about anyone who started ahead of Foley . Read the first lobbying posts from the Rick Foley fan club. I have no problem with calling out players or coaches, unless its because they don't see how special your boy is, or don't share your love .I think their is no need to call a head coach "Wally Butler" or Gary Buono, because your hero is riding the pines. He talks about Glatt who he lobbied to get rid of, yet he seems to be doing ok in Edmonton arguably better than Foley in TO.My issue isn't with Foley, its with his one man fan club who feels the only way to build up his hero is to tear down those around him. Read the posts and tell me the guy that accuses Buono on favouritism and personal dislike isn't guilty of the same.
And to make it clear I'm not a relative, close friend or agent of any Lions players or coaches, how about you Area 51, Argo's newest fan?
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No matter what side of the fence you're on, an unbiased fan has to admit that rickie's Mom makes some good points. Some of them about how great her son is are a bit over the top but hard questions about Wally's current tenure are very valid.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Lions4ever wrote:
Yank In BC wrote:Not much help there 51.

I kind of like the burgers at White Spot but the Spicy Perogy Pizza at BP is tough to beat.
I hold out for a double double animal style at In N Out. Those are fantastic.
Agreed! The best! Tried em for the first time in Reno, and was blown away. :beauty:
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WestCoastJoe
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote: Why is this a troll thread? Why can't he post his thoughts? It is not like others haven't pretty much said similar kinds of things.
:whs:

Many strong opinions being expressed. Fair enough. Although if we snipe at each other, we are about the same as the Lions' dressing room.

Area51 is entitled to blog here. He doesn't pick fights. He doesn't use bad language.
Solar Max wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Area51 is entitled to blog here.
True. Otherwise he wouldn't be here.
We agree.
WestCoastJoe wrote:He doesn't pick fights.
You aren't reading all that many of his posts if you believe that. Add to that you agree with him in that you both want Wally fired, you for your reasons, he for the fact that he feels Wally did Ricky Phony wrong.
I read all of his posts, actually. I'll leave Wally's employment status up to David Braley. Just as I will leave who starts at QB up to Wally. Ricky Foley gave good service to this team.
WestCoastJoe wrote: He doesn't use bad language.
That's because there is a word censor here, and the Mods do a good job.
Some bloggers get the bad language across by using things like **** in place of certain letters. Area51 doesn't use bad language. And I agree that our Administrative team does a good job.
If you think he started this thread just for the benefit of Lions fans, you are mistaken. He has one motivation only.

Normally, I would discuss this via PM, but some here need a push to go and look for themselves it seems.
Now why would I think he started this thread for the benefit of Lions fans? We all know where Area51 is coming from. He is Ricky Foley's friend or close relative. He has issues with Wally Buono going back to when Ricky was here.

And I agree that it would have been better to bring this up in a pm, since we seem to see it differently.
takeitorleaveit
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New to this board so I don't know the specific motivations of anyone starting a thread but I do know that we can all choose whether or not we want to respond.
I don't think Buono has necessarily lost control but rather than he may be too controlling in that he refuses to make (much) needed changes with his coaching staff.
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WestCoastJoe
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takeitorleaveit wrote:New to this board so I don't know the specific motivations of anyone starting a thread but I do know that we can all choose whether or not we want to respond.
I don't think Buono has necessarily lost control but rather than he may be too controlling in that he refuses to make (much) needed changes with his coaching staff.
Welcome to the board.

Some disagreements happen. For the most part, they are civil, with varying degrees of tolerance.
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
takeitorleaveit wrote:New to this board so I don't know the specific motivations of anyone starting a thread but I do know that we can all choose whether or not we want to respond.
I don't think Buono has necessarily lost control but rather than he may be too controlling in that he refuses to make (much) needed changes with his coaching staff.
Welcome to the board.

Some disagreements happen. For the most part, they are civil, with varying degrees of tolerance.
Well, look at the good. We're talking football. The number of posts, following Printers release, not only show a keen interest in B.C. Lions football but also the strong views regarding Casey Printers. One thing for sure, whether you were a supporter of Printers or wanted him gone, he certainly created a lot of interest.

There are strong views at times on Lionbackers. We're passionate about our football, we sometimes see things from different sets of binoculars, but therre is a lot of respect, even when we differ, amongst a lot of posters on this website. Most really know a lot about the game..its a very football savvy website with many outstanding contributors. A lot of the press and media who cover the Lions visit here often. We've also had fans from other websites praise the quality of the posts that are written on Lionbackers.

There are also very differing views regarding Wally and his coaching staff at present. It's a good discussion. There are football websites that will not allow you to criticize the coach of the Lions. Thankfully this is a website that allows for a wide range of views of anything related to Lions football, as long as the views are expressed in an appropriate way.

Interesting to read your view on Wally!!
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http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Stret ... story.html
Stretch drive could prove Wally's last stand
 
The larger impression, sadly, is of a B.C. Lions team that has tuned out its head coach
 
BY ED WILLES, THE PROVINCE OCTOBER 15, 2010
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Lates ... story.html
Latest biggest game of season 
 
BY LOWELL ULLRICH, THE PROVINCE OCTOBER 15, 2010
 
The culture under coach/GM Wally Buono, where players are left to motivate and discipline themselves, is vastly different that it was in Montreal. Williams has brought aspects of the Als' approach in ways only his new teammates can see, though you can get a peek on YouTube.
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Cutti ... story.html
Cutting out the problems started with Printers
 
Nightmare: Leos' head coach and GM Wally Buono probably not sleeping so well this stormy season
 
BY KENT GILCHRIST, THE PROVINCE OCTOBER 15, 2010
 
In quiet moments, perhaps when he is rolling around in bed at 2 or 3 a.m. and sleep is as elusive as a playoff spot, Wally Buono must surely think of this as his Season From Hell.

That much of the bad stuff is self-inflicted only makes it more hellish.
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Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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I read the article in the province earlier today, and he is saying exactly what Area51 said, and I agree with 100%. Buono HAS lost control of this team. The players have lost respect for him, and that has become obvious in their play this year.

He made a lot of mistakes over the last few years, and it's starting to catch up with him. There was a time that Don Matthews was considered one of the greatest CFL coaches, and he too had a great winning record...but the time came when he started making mistakes, and players, fans, and the media began to question his ability. Now, he's gone for good. Buono, if he ignores the tea leaves, is going to disappear too, and be remembered not for being the winningest coach in CFL history, but as a coach who stuck around too long and lost the respect of the people and players around him.

He could be a good GM, IF he keeps his nose out of the player selection and coaching, but I wonder, if he did relinquish the H position, if he would be able to relinquish it completely. I don't think he can, and thus, I think he needs to retire.

One other thing, the comments about Area51, and trying to turn this thread in to a joke thread are EXTREMELY disrespectful, and I expected better from the members here. Those types of comments I expect from cfl.ca, not from Lionbackers.
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Toppy Vann
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Wally has not lost control but the culture is something that is a bit concerning with the Reid tirade against Printers. Lulay, Wilson himself, Geroy and Jarius who actually suggests that maybe some stuff needed to be said to this team. I just don't subscribe to the view that players are to do this screaming but as a coach myself I develop a different culture in my teams where players play and respect each other and I will ensure that changes are made if someone does not do their job. I don't want tirades at half time or game end unless it is the odd time I give one.

Reid going public and so harshly is not good for a team. He was wrong.

Wally should have let Printers stay. He invested heavily. He could have forced an apology from him to the team etc. Hey he didn't give a rats arse about PJ getting his smash to the jaw from what is a good ST player but with a bit of a spotty past . We all saw how that injury affected his play in recent weeks.How much do you think PJ wanted to take a hit in a game with his jaw wired up (IF that was actually true). That whole fight incident was white washed by Wally as that is the players room. If they were smoking dope there and bringing in girls would he say the same thing? No because it is a workplace and the Lions are accountable for anything that occurs there. Mommy always said 'sticks and stones.......' Wally didn't remember that one when it came to Casey.

What is bad is these stories of Wally not coaching next year and the thought that he has absolutely no one on his staff as a logical successor is horrifying. Wally has done a pretty good job here over the years but the guys he has put his trust in - Chapdelaine and Benevides have not in my view shown HC leadership material yet. Wally is to be commended for his concern for Canadian coaches or at least coaches coming from the ranks of the CFL players, etc. If you don't have that this league is not going to do well in future.

Wally has let Printers thing become the story of the CFL this week - covers up his bad decision to have Lulay holding the clip board and writing as Jock Climie said with his hurt finger. This could have been whitewashed and put in a better context a la Jarius if he said he will correct that but that some things needed to be said when your team gives up penos for personal reasons and 21 pts in the 4 Q to lose.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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