Andrew Harris

[The_Pauser]

Here's a thought...not sure how it would work in the CFL (okay let's be honest, our OC would never attempt this) but what about trying a 3-back set? It would provide more blocking and protection for the QB while allowing Logan and/or Harris to release. It would give us potentially more screen pass options, and we could confuse the defense as to which RB would be getting the ball on any given running play. Add to that a double TE set-up when we are running (sure it won't be disguised but at least we can ensure we have better blocking like when we dominated Montreal a few years ago) and we've come up with something that's completely different from what we've gone with the whole season.

I'm not a big X's and O's guy so I'm not sure if this is really such a good idea or not, but I thought I'd throw it out for discussion anyway. Might as well take advantage of the personnel we have, rather than having to bench Logan or Harris on any given play.

[South Pender]

Here's a thought...not sure how it would work in the CFL (okay let's be honest, our OC would never attempt this) but what about trying a 3-back set? It would provide more blocking and protection for the QB while allowing Logan and/or Harris to release. It would give us potentially more screen pass options, and we could confuse the defense as to which RB would be getting the ball on any given running play. Add to that a double TE set-up when we are running (sure it won't be disguised but at least we can ensure we have better blocking like when we dominated Montreal a few years ago) and we've come up with something that's completely different from what we've gone with the whole season.

I'm not a big X's and O's guy so I'm not sure if this is really such a good idea or not, but I thought I'd throw it out for discussion anyway. Might as well take advantage of the personnel we have, rather than having to bench Logan or Harris on any given play.

I think a two-back set, with Logan and Harris, makes sense. And I've thought for a long time that having either one or two tight ends would be a good idea. We don't use tight ends much anymore in the CFL, but they're an integral part of the NFL formations. Can't see how a tight end or two couldn't improve our running game.

[DanoT]

MexicoLionFan makes some great points. In fact his first post on this thread is one of my favs on here.

Also jcalhoun's description of the sideline body language of Harris and Lulay was really good.

It's not hard to read between the lines of a lot of what is said and not said by the players this year. Even veterans on D have come very close to speaking out, these quotes were after the 39-38 loss to Montreal when we scored 17 pts off 6 turnovers:

“I have to watch what I say now. I’m honestly at a loss for words,” Lions lineman Keron Williams said.

(not hard to read between the lines)

Think about it; the Lions were playing a team missing 10 starters.

As just about every one of his defensive teammates said quietly afterwards, producing that many chances should be good enough to win.

“We scored 38 points. We should have scored 68 points,” the Lions’ Marsh said.

Comparing Harris to TO (the greatest drama queen in the history of football) is ridiculous. Even bringing him up as an example is off base. Harris may have let his ego get the better of him at times this year, but his ego is not what ails this team... it's certain egos higher up the chain of command which seem to have a suffocating effect on team psyche at times. The "execute this futile play over and over until a) it works or b) we replace you" attitude reminds me a bit of that old joke "The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

Import running backs may be a dime a dozen but NI ones aren't quite, and squandering NI talent is bad enough but squandering a breakthrough one like Harris (including by converting him to another position...) would just be stupid IMO.

Bidding good riddance to Khalif Mitchell was a breath of fresh air. That dude broke more "codes" than Harris ever has.

It was never my intent to compare Harris' behaviour to Terrel Owens but rather to further illustrate the point that football is a dictatorship and even if it is benevolent, a football player no matter how good he is, does not get to enjoy free speech. (Owens thought he did have a right to free speech.)

I don't think Harris has has an ego problem as most top athletes have an ego. Having an ego is about self confidence and as such it is a good and necessary thing especially when things are not going right. Top athletes just need to know when to say nothing.

[Blitz]

Here's a thought...not sure how it would work in the CFL (okay let's be honest, our OC would never attempt this) but what about trying a 3-back set? It would provide more blocking and protection for the QB while allowing Logan and/or Harris to release. It would give us potentially more screen pass options, and we could confuse the defense as to which RB would be getting the ball on any given running play. Add to that a double TE set-up when we are running (sure it won't be disguised but at least we can ensure we have better blocking like when we dominated Montreal a few years ago) and we've come up with something that's completely different from what we've gone with the whole season.

I'm not a big X's and O's guy so I'm not sure if this is really such a good idea or not, but I thought I'd throw it out for discussion anyway. Might as well take advantage of the personnel we have, rather than having to bench Logan or Harris on any given play.

I think a two-back set, with Logan and Harris, makes sense. And I've thought for a long time that having either one or two tight ends would be a good idea. We don't use tight ends much anymore in the CFL, but they're an integral part of the NFL formations. Can't see how a tight end or two couldn't improve our running game.

Our most used formation on first down is a two tight end set with Lumnbala and Myhddleton as tight ends. What we tend to have in the CFl is an extra lineman or a fullback lining up as a tight end in power formations. These players are usually non-imports. What we don't have is the pure tight end who can block as well as be a good receiver. Jason Clermont was a player who could line up as a tight end or a slotback. Nik Lewis could do the same in Calgary. Instead of a plethora of fast receivers I think we would be better off with a non-import receiver who is big and strong and can play tight end or widen out - more a prototype NFL tight end. The problems is that Canadian colleges are not producing them and the CFL has gone away from them. Both are connected.

I wish we would sit Iannuzzi and use Haidara as a combo tight end and wide receiver. He is a good blocker and he could be lined up as a tight end in our power formation and be a threat as a receiver....something Mydddleton is not....and therefore does not have to be accounted for by the opposition pass defenders.

I believe we will see both Logan and Harris in the backfield at the same time, in a pro set. We have used that set this season with Harris and Brown both split in the backfield so there is no reason why we won't see it with Logan and Harris.

What I would like to see is a change up. The "I" formation has gone the way of the dodo bird. Football is very trendy. However I could see us using that formation on occasion, especially because defenses don't see it anymore. We could put Harris in the fullback position and Logan at tailback, ala John Henry White and Larry Key. We could use the fullback kick out block off tackle, the quick pitch off tackle with the potential bounce out, and the quick dive play with Harris and the inside trap with Harris. The formation is a good play action formation. I think there would be some advantages in using it as one of our formations.

However we can't use Logan and Harris in a two back set all the time because Logan is being used for punt returns and kick returns and Harris is now being used on kick returns as well.

I keep reading that our Leos offence does not run the football enough or Harris enough. Despite our less than stellar results we are third in the CFL in rushing attempts this season. That shows a commitment to still trying to run the football. Actually its our passing game that has done worse, comparatively speaking, than our running game this season.

Andrew Harris carried the football last year 187 times for 1,112 yds and a 5.9 rushing average. His average was best in the CFL. This year, with 2 games to go, he has carried the football 171 times for 820 yards and a 4.8 average. Harris has been given the 3rd most opportunities to rush the football, behind Cornish and Sheets, as was the case last season.

[David]

If the Argos offered up Zac Collaros (and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd round pick), I would seriously consider this if I'm Wally. They're likely to lose him to Ottawa and we have no guarantee of keeping Harris beyond next year. If I was somewhat concerned about Travis's shoulder before, I sure as heck am now. Is DeMarco the future? Hard to say. He has shown flashes, but Collaros looks like he could be a star in this league, and Toronto will of course, be protecting Ricky.

If Collaros do wind up in the black and orange, who do you protect ? Lulay or Collaros ?

I really like Travis but with every shoulder issue, I am becoming less certain about his future. This is a sublexation - his second serious injury on his throwing shoulder in as many years and one he's previously had surgery on. Is this not like tendonitis for a pitcher? With a $450K a year salary?

So yes, obviously if I were to give up Andrew Harris, I would be keeping Collaros (nearly 100% QB rating this year)...that's the whole point of obtaining him. I think he would work well under Jarious, although I am loathe to give up Lulay's leadership and intangibles. Still, if I were to make this move, it would be Collaros, DeMarco, and Pierce (or Chris Hart) assuming Ottawa claims Travis. Use the draft pick from the Argos to select another O-lineman.


DH

[MexicoLionFan]

Great posts, James and Blitz. Failing to win the fist-fight at the LOS accounts for most of our problems this year. As for Lulay and Harris, I don't believe they've been thrown to the wolves at all. The coaches have tried to produce success for these guys with a woefully-inadequate O-line. No one questions the desire or commitment of these two players, but there's no question that Harris has taken his opinions--and body language--beyond the bounds of what is acceptable if TEAM really comes first. As I said earlier, I think Harris might be a good slot. In my opinion, he's not top-shelf feature-back material. Wally can do better with a big and/or exceedingly fast and shifty import at that position. As for Lulay, everything depends on his recovery, in my opinion, and whether this shoulder issue is one we can expect to arise each year through cumulative wear.

I think it's always easy in hindsight to blame the coaches and general manager for a team's shortcomings. But how was Wally to know that Reid wouldn't play this year and that Fabien would be injured. At first, the O-line looked adequate: Archibald, Norman, Reid, Fabien, and Olafioye. With the small CFL rosters, losing two O-line starters and forcing a guy who's essentially a rookie into probably the most-demanding O-line position, we were doomed in terms of having a powerful O-line. Can't see how this is either Wally's, Bene's, or Chapdelaine's fault. The Riders lost Kory Sheets for a while, and their offense suffered greatly. Is this the fault of Taman, Chamblin, or Cortez because they didn't have the foresight to have a quality replacement on their roster?

Wally has been the most successful HC in CFL history, and is, in my opinion, a good GM. It just doesn't make sense to me to start blaming him, Bene, and Chaps for a disappointing season. Injuries can turn a promising season into a disaster; we've seen this time and again, and it occurs with the much-larger rosters in the NFL too. How will the Bears look now that Jay Cutler is out for a minimum of four weeks (and likely longer). Do we blame Marc Trestman for this? How will the Rams look now that Sam Bradford is out for the season? Jeff Fisher's fault?

Everyone is entitled to their view and these should be respected, so I will stop at this...enough to say that Wally SHOULD HAVE KNOWN all the things that you mentioned...most everyone on Lionsbackers WERE AWARE before the season started...this is why we are irate at this point...and I will remind you that in any job, you are as good as how well you did today...Wally's not doing so well today...

Whaaaaat? Wally SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that Reid wouldn't be able to play? That Fabien would get injured? That you'll have to explain, MLF. And, I don't recall anyone on Lionbackers having the prescience to know that these medical disasters would occur. And finally, no, it's not the case that, in any job, you're only as good as you were today. In most jobs, you're given the benefit of the doubt if you have a proven track record.

This is what GMs are paid for SP...of course Wally should have PREPARED for these things...the Lions had to coax Reid to resign and play another season...Angus has had to play through an incredible amount of pain over his last 4 seasons...the last 2 he BARELY got through...Reid couldn't even respond to Wally's request for a couple of months until all the swelling came down in his body so that he could gauge what he could and couldn't do and how much pain he could tolerate...NONE of this is speculation, this is all FACT...and Wally was privy to it all...he went into the season hoping that both or one of JHR and/or Jesse Newman would play this season, both of their doctors told the Lions and the players that they had permanent injuries that were non repairable and couldn't play...Wally kept holding out that JHR would pass the team physical and limp through another season for us...that's CRAZY...JHR in his ENTIRE CAREER never finished a single season without a serious injury, NOT ONE...to roll the dice that he would be able to play this season is what Einstein called INSANE...

No one can guess that Fabien would have a possibly career threatening injury, but my point is we started the season with a rookie guard at Centre...a rookie Tackle at Guard...a retread in Kabongo that was OUT OF THE CFL 2 years ago starting at LG and our principal backup, Dean Valli, was coming off his 2nd serious knee injury in 2 years and was NOT cleared to play medically...this was our OLine attempting to open up holes for Andrew Harris and protect our half a million dollar investment Travis Lulay...they did neither...now Lulay has suffered his 2nd major shoulder injury (both to the throwing shoulder) and might never be the same again, and Harris is a raging lunatic due to his frustration...and you think that Wally and Chaps are only marginally responsible????

WTF??? Who is responsible then? Jesse Newman??? Lots of contributors on this site where having these exact discussions leading up to TC because it seemed crazy and reckless what Wally was doing...he could have made a trade, he could have spent the Julius Williams money on a FA OLineman...but he didn't, and all of this just exasperates the problems with Chapdelaine's offensive system...and thus he is responsible for Lulay's injury and Harris' malcontent in a very direct fashion.

[MexicoLionFan]

Here's a thought...not sure how it would work in the CFL (okay let's be honest, our OC would never attempt this) but what about trying a 3-back set? It would provide more blocking and protection for the QB while allowing Logan and/or Harris to release. It would give us potentially more screen pass options, and we could confuse the defense as to which RB would be getting the ball on any given running play. Add to that a double TE set-up when we are running (sure it won't be disguised but at least we can ensure we have better blocking like when we dominated Montreal a few years ago) and we've come up with something that's completely different from what we've gone with the whole season.

I'm not a big X's and O's guy so I'm not sure if this is really such a good idea or not, but I thought I'd throw it out for discussion anyway. Might as well take advantage of the personnel we have, rather than having to bench Logan or Harris on any given play.

I think a two-back set, with Logan and Harris, makes sense. And I've thought for a long time that having either one or two tight ends would be a good idea. We don't use tight ends much anymore in the CFL, but they're an integral part of the NFL formations. Can't see how a tight end or two couldn't improve our running game.

Our most used formation on first down is a two tight end set with Lumnbala and Myhddleton as tight ends. What we tend to have in the CFl is an extra lineman or a fullback lining up as a tight end in power formations. These players are usually non-imports. What we don't have is the pure tight end who can block as well as be a good receiver. Jason Clermont was a player who could line up as a tight end or a slotback. Nik Lewis could do the same in Calgary. Instead of a plethora of fast receivers I think we would be better off with a non-import receiver who is big and strong and can play tight end or widen out - more a prototype NFL tight end. The problems is that Canadian colleges are not producing them and the CFL has gone away from them. Both are connected.

Once again Blitz, stats can be bent any direction by anyone to support their theory...the Lions rushing attempts are "up" only because the QBs have been running for their collective lives...especially Lulay...these attempts and yards count and skew the overall numbers...also our Receivers have run a lot this season, adding to the numbers...Harris is 3rd in attempts in the entire CFL because other teams (besides BC, CAL and SASK) haven't had the luxury of one "great" back being available or healthy...and besides, you cares how we compare to other teams unless its Wins and Losses...for a decade it has been pulling teeth to get Chapdelaine to call running plays and NO ONE can dispute this...in 2011 when we had our turnaround to the Cup, Wally kept Chaps on the basis that he adjusted his system and became committed to the run...we went on to win the Cup...last year, Chaps slowly, all year long, went away from 2011's turnaround, and you and I commented on it week after week...and this year, the running game has been an after thought after Harris just had one of the greatest RB seasons in the history of the CFL, import or non-import...the problem lies with our GM because he has done NOTHING to address the CHRONIC problems on this team...

Logan is a nice addition, but he's NOT WHAT WE ACTUALLY NEED...

Chris Wilson is a decent, I guess, addition, but he's not what we actually need...

Buck Pierce...good lord...no comment.

And tolerating our OLine and Safety in the face of what's happened is beyond belief...that's why this season seems so surreal to me...

I wish we would sit Iannuzzi and use Haidara as a combo tight end and wide receiver. He is a good blocker and he could be lined up as a tight end in our power formation and be a threat as a receiver....something Mydddleton is not....and therefore does not have to be accounted for by the opposition pass defenders.

I believe we will see both Logan and Harris in the backfield at the same time, in a pro set. We have used that set this season with Harris and Brown both split in the backfield so there is no reason why we won't see it with Logan and Harris.

What I would like to see is a change up. The "I" formation has gone the way of the dodo bird. Football is very trendy. However I could see us using that formation on occasion, especially because defenses don't see it anymore. We could put Harris in the fullback position and Logan at tailback, ala John Henry White and Larry Key. We could use the fullback kick out block off tackle, the quick pitch off tackle with the potential bounce out, and the quick dive play with Harris and the inside trap with Harris. The formation is a good play action formation. I think there would be some advantages in using it as one of our formations.

However we can't use Logan and Harris in a two back set all the time because Logan is being used for punt returns and kick returns and Harris is now being used on kick returns as well.

I keep reading that our Leos offence does not run the football enough or Harris enough. Despite our less than stellar results we are third in the CFL in rushing attempts this season. That shows a commitment to still trying to run the football. Actually its our passing game that has done worse, comparatively speaking, than our running game this season.

Andrew Harris carried the football last year 187 times for 1,112 yds and a 5.9 rushing average. His average was best in the CFL. This year, with 2 games to go, he has carried the football 171 times for 820 yards and a 4.8 average. Harris has been given the 3rd most opportunities to rush the football, behind Cornish and Sheets, as was the case last season.

[South Pender]

Everyone is entitled to their view and these should be respected, so I will stop at this...enough to say that Wally SHOULD HAVE KNOWN all the things that you mentioned...most everyone on Lionsbackers WERE AWARE before the season started...this is why we are irate at this point...and I will remind you that in any job, you are as good as how well you did today...Wally's not doing so well today...

Whaaaaat? Wally SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that Reid wouldn't be able to play? That Fabien would get injured? That you'll have to explain, MLF. And, I don't recall anyone on Lionbackers having the prescience to know that these medical disasters would occur. And finally, no, it's not the case that, in any job, you're only as good as you were today. In most jobs, you're given the benefit of the doubt if you have a proven track record.

This is what GMs are paid for SP...of course Wally should have PREPARED for these things...the Lions had to coax Reid to resign and play another season...Angus has had to play through an incredible amount of pain over his last 4 seasons...the last 2 he BARELY got through...Reid couldn't even respond to Wally's request for a couple of months until all the swelling came down in his body so that he could gauge what he could and couldn't do and how much pain he could tolerate...NONE of this is speculation, this is all FACT...and Wally was privy to it all...he went into the season hoping that both or one of JHR and/or Jesse Newman would play this season, both of their doctors told the Lions and the players that they had permanent injuries that were non repairable and couldn't play...Wally kept holding out that JHR would pass the team physical and limp through another season for us...that's CRAZY...JHR in his ENTIRE CAREER never finished a single season without a serious injury, NOT ONE...to roll the dice that he would be able to play this season is what Einstein called INSANE...

No one can guess that Fabien would have a possibly career threatening injury, but my point is we started the season with a rookie guard at Centre...a rookie Tackle at Guard...a retread in Kabongo that was OUT OF THE CFL 2 years ago starting at LG and our principal backup, Dean Valli, was coming off his 2nd serious knee injury in 2 years and was NOT cleared to play medically...this was our OLine attempting to open up holes for Andrew Harris and protect our half a million dollar investment Travis Lulay...they did neither...now Lulay has suffered his 2nd major shoulder injury (both to the throwing shoulder) and might never be the same again, and Harris is a raging lunatic due to his frustration...and you think that Wally and Chaps are only marginally responsible????

WTF??? Who is responsible then? Jesse Newman??? Lots of contributors on this site where having these exact discussions leading up to TC because it seemed crazy and reckless what Wally was doing...he could have made a trade, he could have spent the Julius Williams money on a FA OLineman...but he didn't, and all of this just exasperates the problems with Chapdelaine's offensive system...and thus he is responsible for Lulay's injury and Harris' malcontent in a very direct fashion.

My point was that when TC began Reid was OK. Thus, Wally had what appeared to be a decent O-line, with Reid at centre, two young, but capable guards in Norman and Fabien, and two capable tackles in Archibald and Olafioye. You make it sound as though Wally knew that Reid couldn't play and gambled with a rookie guard at centre. Not so. Reid's condition became apparent after TC began. The fact that Wally couldn't then pick up the phone and acquire a starting guard or centre isn't all on Wally. He had ratio issues to deal with, and no experienced NI guards/centres were available. You see the O-line situation as all Wally's fault. I don't--at least I don't see it as primarily Wally's fault. I see it as just very bad luck with injuries and an inability (for any GM) to find NI replacement parts. Let's let it go at that; just not interested in debating you any further on this, MLF.

[Shi Zi Mi]

My point was that when TC began Reid was OK. Thus, Wally had what appeared to be a decent O-line, with Reid at centre, two young, but capable guards in Norman and Fabien, and two capable tackles in Archibald and Olafioye. You make it sound as though Wally knew that Reid couldn't play and gambled with a rookie guard at centre. Not so. Reid's condition became apparent after TC began. The fact that Wally couldn't then pick up the phone and acquire a starting guard or centre isn't all on Wally. He had ratio issues to deal with, and no experienced NI guards/centres were available. You see the O-line situation as all Wally's fault. I don't--at least I don't see it as primarily Wally's fault. I see it as just very bad luck with injuries and an inability (for any GM) to find NI replacement parts. Let's let it go at that; just not interested in debating you any further on this, MLF.

Contingency is the word you're looking for.....it's what you do JUST IN CASE things happen. Buono had ZERO contingency going into the season.

Predicting that JHR and Newman weren't going to be available didn't take Kreskin to figure out, it was known by all.........Buono was fully aware that Reid may not be able to play a good portion of the season because of body fatigue.......Buono was fully aware that Archibald's production had tailed off and made him take a pay cut.......Buono was fully aware of what he had in Kabongo, Valli and Baboulas and that they were NOT starting calibre olineman........he knew all these things even before he was able to sign Fabien just before TC.

He had an entire off-season to factor some form of contingency into his plans for the 2013 season........he did NOTHING.......except take a knee and pray that everyone would stay healthy and perform above expectations. Most of us on Lionbackers saw this coming, why didn't Buono?

[ziggy]

Wonder if a good O line would have saved us from the 8 turnovers. I think not.

[Blitz]

Once again Blitz, stats can be bent any direction by anyone to support their theory...the Lions rushing attempts are "up" only because the QBs have been running for their collective lives...especially Lulay...these attempts and yards count and skew the overall numbers...also our Receivers have run a lot this season, adding to the numbers...Harris is 3rd in attempts in the entire CFL because other teams (besides BC, CAL and SASK) haven't had the luxury of one "great" back being available or healthy. MexicoLionFan

The stat is simple MLF. Its the number of times we have given the football this season to Andrew Harris. Its the same rate that we gave him the football last year, when you pointed out what a great season Harris had. We have not ignored Harris but given him the football with the same number of carries as last season and last season he was happy. We continue to throw to Harris. We have thrown to Harris 56 times this season. The only Leo who has been thrown to more is Nick Moore. Its just that Harris has a significantly lower run average this year than last and his yards per catch is also lower. The average gain per run being lower is most due to our offensive line and the injuries to Reid and Fabian certainly have not helped.

As for your comment regarding our quarterback and receivers running to pad our number of runs.... our quarterback and receiver runs are down this year from last.

Andrew Harris is not a victim. He has been treated well this season. Benevedes reached out to him after his public comments after the Montreal loss. He was publically critical and suffered no repercussions. He has been used as an integral and important part of the offence. We have continued to use him at the same rate as last year, despite a lower run average. He missed the team flight by sleeping in and suffered no fine or consequence.

The only thing that our Leos have 'done' to Harris is to bring in Stefan Logan last game, with 3 games to go to try to give a different look to our running attack, which has struggled this season. Wally has a responsibility to the team and the fans to try to win this season. Harris was still used in the game and shared the tailback spot with Logan and in fact Harris ran for better average than he has all season. We also used Harris on kickoff returns..something we have not done since he became our starting tailback. Leo players were very positive about the addition of Logan. They want to win and anything that helps is something they want.

Its the B.C. Lions..not Andrew Harris. He can either give it his all with a positive team approach or he can sulk or get pissed. I think the Lions have been very understanding with him this season. Our Leos also gave Andrew Harris the opportunity as a territorial protection as a junior player and developed him. He may never have gotten that opportunity elsewhere. He is not the only Lion who hates to lose or feel frustrated when things don't go well.

[South Pender]

Contingency is the word you're looking for.....it's what you do JUST IN CASE things happen. Buono had ZERO contingency going into the season.

Actually, I wasn't looking for any word, Shi Zi Mi, but 20-20 hindsight is a phrase I might use. First, I haven't seen any evidence (have you?) that Wally knew before TC that Reid might not have been able to play a good portion of the season. That information surfaced, I believe, after TC had begun. Second, I believe that he did know with certainty that Newman wasn't going to be available; thus I don't believe we can fairly accuse him of mistakenly thinking Newman would be available. Third, I also believe he knew that there was a very good chance that JHR would not be available. In any case, had the injuries not occurred, we'd all be praising Wally for his wonderful prescience and recruiting. In fact, before TC, there were a number of very praiseworthy posts on this forum about what a savvy recruiter Wally is (or was) and how he'd been a winner in the off-season; but now, somehow, looking back on it, we knew even then that he's a bum and a child of 6 could have seen this. I'd further disagree with the statement that "most of us on Lionbackers saw this coming." How could we? The injuries hadn't occurred yet. If your argument is that Wally should have planned for injuries to the O-line and over-recruited for it, we'd now be griping about the problems elsewhere on the team because too much attention was given to the O-line, and we ended up short-handed re talent at other positions. Let's not forget that Wally had to recruit for the whole team and pay attention to the ratio. It's just too easy for us to now sit back and play the 20-20 hindsight game. Your comments make it sound as if those of us on Lionbackers really have the answers and inside scoop, along with greater knowledge (or maybe you meant motivation), than Wally and would have recruited a GC-winning team had we only had the chance! Sorry, don't buy it.

[MexicoLionFan]

Contingency is the word you're looking for.....it's what you do JUST IN CASE things happen. Buono had ZERO contingency going into the season.

Actually, I wasn't looking for any word, Shi Zi Mi, but 20-20 hindsight is a phrase I might use. First, I haven't seen any evidence (have you?) that Wally knew before TC that Reid might not have been able to play a good portion of the season. That information surfaced, I believe, after TC had begun. Second, I believe that he did know with certainty that Newman wasn't going to be available; thus I don't believe we can fairly accuse him of mistakenly thinking Newman would be available. Third, I also believe he knew that there was a very good chance that JHR would not be available. In any case, had the injuries not occurred, we'd all be praising Wally for his wonderful prescience and recruiting. In fact, before TC, there were a number of very praiseworthy posts on this forum about what a savvy recruiter Wally is (or was) and how he'd been a winner in the off-season; but now, somehow, looking back on it, we knew even then that he's a bum and a child of 6 could have seen this. I'd further disagree with the statement that "most of us on Lionbackers saw this coming." How could we? The injuries hadn't occurred yet. If your argument is that Wally should have planned for injuries to the O-line and over-recruited for it, we'd now be griping about the problems elsewhere on the team because too much attention was given to the O-line, and we ended up short-handed re talent at other positions. Let's not forget that Wally had to recruit for the whole team and pay attention to the ratio. It's just too easy for us to now sit back and play the 20-20 hindsight game. Your comments make it sound as if those of us on Lionbackers really have the answers and inside scoop, along with greater knowledge (or maybe you meant motivation), than Wally and would have recruited a GC-winning team had we only had the chance! Sorry, don't buy it.

Then you are just blindly trying to protect your viewpoint, which is fine...but the reality is EVERY body knew that Reid coming back was a risk, and a lot of us commented on the fact that Norman would likely get a lot of reps at Centre because of Reid's conditions and that he might finish the season as the starter at Centre...your "recollection" is not accurate...Wally's lack of concern and prep for the OLine, DLine, Safety, and even the WRs was careless, and that's being kind...

[Toppy Vann]

Harris is no TO but a young man who needs some guidance as to what it means to be a pro and how to act.

Cornish got that from Hufnagel with his minor indiscretions and guess what....all that stuff with the falling pants seems to have ended.

Wally historically and now Benevides lets these things slide and in fact make excuses as the first outset of these issues. Harris needs a bit of a talk before he gets to be yet another Messam or Mitchell - who have to move on to learn how to act as a pro.

[MexicoLionFan]

Once again Blitz, stats can be bent any direction by anyone to support their theory...the Lions rushing attempts are "up" only because the QBs have been running for their collective lives...especially Lulay...these attempts and yards count and skew the overall numbers...also our Receivers have run a lot this season, adding to the numbers...Harris is 3rd in attempts in the entire CFL because other teams (besides BC, CAL and SASK) haven't had the luxury of one "great" back being available or healthy. MexicoLionFan

The stat is simple MLF. Its the number of times we have given the football this season to Andrew Harris. Its the same rate that we gave him the football last year, when you pointed out what a great season Harris had. We have not ignored Harris but given him the football with the same number of carries as last season and last season he was happy. We continue to throw to Harris. We have thrown to Harris 56 times this season. The only Leo who has been thrown to more is Nick Moore. Its just that Harris has a significantly lower run average this year than last and his yards per catch is also lower. The average gain per run being lower is most due to our offensive line and the injuries to Reid and Fabian certainly have not helped.

As for your comment regarding our quarterback and receivers running to pad our number of runs.... our quarterback and receiver runs are down this year from last.

Andrew Harris is not a victim. He has been treated well this season. Benevedes reached out to him after his public comments after the Montreal loss. He was publically critical and suffered no repercussions. He has been used as an integral and important part of the offence. We have continued to use him at the same rate as last year, despite a lower run average. He missed the team flight by sleeping in and suffered no fine or consequence.

The only thing that our Leos have 'done' to Harris is to bring in Stefan Logan last game, with 3 games to go to try to give a different look to our running attack, which has struggled this season. Wally has a responsibility to the team and the fans to try to win this season. Harris was still used in the game and shared the tailback spot with Logan and in fact Harris ran for better average than he has all season. We also used Harris on kickoff returns..something we have not done since he became our starting tailback. Leo players were very positive about the addition of Logan. They want to win and anything that helps is something they want.

Its the B.C. Lions..not Andrew Harris. He can either give it his all with a positive team approach or he can sulk or get pissed. I think the Lions have been very understanding with him this season. Our Leos also gave Andrew Harris the opportunity as a territorial protection as a junior player and developed him. He may never have gotten that opportunity elsewhere. He is not the only Lion who hates to lose or feel frustrated when things don't go well.

Harris is absolutely a victim...a victim of a under gunned OC and a ridiculous OLine...how he has handled things is far from purrfect, but at least he cares, and at least he's passionate about winning...and Blitz, be honest, the Lions only act to "fix" their offence was to bring in Logan...how would you view that in Harris' shoes, huh??? You have the worst OLine in recent memory and an OC that is overmatched and embattled year after year, and the only move is to change the RB??? WTF???

As Cougar Country aptly pointed out, Harris is not only a SPECIAL skill position player, he's CANADIAN...you don't want to point the finger at him or Lulay...but that's exactly what the Lions have done...they brought in Pierce to point the finger at Travis (beyond ridiculous) and brought in Logan to point the finger at Harris...

Again as CC said, the egos of Wally and Chapdelaine have been the biggest problems with the Lions over the last decade...they are STUBBORN to a fault and point out at everybody else except themselves. The problems on this team are OBVIOUS beyond description and we have done nothing except bring back the Lion's Alumni Assocation...Buono should be embarrassed.