Alouettes 30 - Lions 25 Post Game Stats and Comments

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WestCoastJoe
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We are passionate fans. And we love our team.

How to stop the blitz?

And even more importantly, how do you run an offence if your O Line cannot pass block man to man? I posted a number of videos from the Bomber game about our O Line breakdowns in individual pass blocking. On plays without a blitz. Without a blitz. Without a blitz.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26237&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... 30#p310402

I would suggest that the answer is both easy, and not easy. Is it easy to drive a golf ball 300 yards? Well it is easy for the guys and gals that can do it. It's not easy for the rest. It seems easy for Calvillo to beat pressure, but recall that he wasn't considered a great quarterback IMO until he got to work with Don Matthews and then Marc Trestman. Now at age 40, it is clear to everyone that he is indeed a very, very great quarterback. And look at the offensive genius he currently works with, Trestman.

1 ... Can your guys pass block individually? If not, any other discussion is a waste of time. I have to say that after watching for years, it seems to me that some guys regress the longer they are coached by Dan Dorazio. Or that they never develop. Dean Valli is an example. Can't pass block to save his life. In his case it seems to me his head is full of stuff that is counter productive to instinctive, athletic play. Paralysis by analysis. And I am sure he is not a dumb guy.

Archibald came over from Calgary a finished product. He has slipped very, very badly IMO.

Jesse Newman ... From Calgary. Plus he seems to me like a guy who goes his own way. I would suggest JonHR has played well despite his physical problems.

Angus Reid has been with Dorazio for years, and plays to his limits under his coaching.

Jovon was beaten badly one on one vs the Bombers. Haven't watched the tape from the Als game.

All these guys it seems to me can run block.

So if your O Line can't pass block the guy in front of them, in a game, there is no point in looking any further at fixing pass protection.

2 ... I think some would agree with me that the best antidote to pass rush pressure is a strong running game. Twenty plus runs per game by a horse of a running back, who is virtually indestructible. Joe Smith for example. That was Dorazio at his best IMO, grinding up defences, even that of Don Matthews.

3 ... All the other stuff that my respected colleagues, Blitz and MexicoLionFan in particular, mention are part of the package. Screens, quick hitters, et cetera.

By the way, I am sure we have all seen Lulay execute quick hitters, almost like ... Ummm oh yeah, Calvillo. We get into trouble when we sit Lulay in the pocket, behind an O Line that is a sieve. Put Calvillo behind our line, and I would suggest that he will be on his back, looking up at the sky in a flash. And I would suggest that he might not last one quarter behind our line, running that game plan last night.

If we run quick hitters, Lulay is more than fine. If we run rollouts, Lulay is more than fine. If we ask any quarterback to be a drop back passer in our offence, against a blitz, or even a four man rush, we are asking the near impossible IMO. Unless you are a magician, which Lulay is, at escaping, you will be buried.

Do I fault Lulay at all? For what? For not running a quick strike passing attack like Calvillo? No. Calvillo and his entire offensive team are geared for that. O Line. Receivers. Play calls. Game plans.

Does Lulay read the D? Yes.

Does he find his receivers? Given time in the pocket? Yes.

Does he, on his own even, give his team effective plays, time after time? Yes.

Does he give his team chances to win, under incredible pressure? Yes.

I find it pointless to try to say he should do this, and he should do that. He is evolving at a good pace, with his unmatched work ethic, and that is that.

Give him good pass protection, and I would suggest that he will look exactly like the MOP quarterback from last year. And even with lousy pass protection, he is not far off anyway.

.....

The criticism of Lulay has slowed down. Good.

Attention to the O Line has increased. Good.

Mission accomplished.

Thank you. James, for taking up the banner, with the detailed look at the poor pass protection vs the Alouettes.
Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote:We are passionate fans. And we love our team.

3 ... All the other stuff that my respected colleagues, Blitz and MexicoLionFan in particular, mention are part of the package. Screens, quick hitters, et cetera.

By the way, I am sure we have all seen Lulay execute quick hitters, almost like ... Ummm oh yeah, Calvillo. We get into trouble when we sit Lulay in the pocket, behind an O Line that is a sieve. Put Calvillo behind our line, and I would suggest that he will be on his back, looking up at the sky in a flash. And I would suggest that he might not last one quarter behind our line.

If we run quick hitters, Lulay is more than fine. If we run rollouts, Lulay is more than fine. If we ask any quarterback to be a drop back passer in our offence, against a blitz, or even a four man rush, we are asking the near impossible IMO. Unless you are a magician, which Lulay is, at escaping, you will be buried.

Do I fault Lulay at all? For what? For not running a quick strike passing attack like Calvillo? No. Calvillo and his entire offensive team are geared for that. O Line. Receivers. Play calls. Game plans.

Does Lulay read the D? Yes.

Does he find his receivers? Given time in the pocket? Yes.

Does he, on his own even, give his team effective plays, time after time? Yes.

Does he give his team chances to win, under incredible pressure? Yes.

I find it pointless to try to say he should do this, and he should do that. He is evolving at a good pace, with his unmatched work ethic, and that is that.

Give him good pass protection, and I would suggest that he will look exactly like the MOP quarterback from last year. And even with lousy pass protection, he is not far off anyway.
Good post WCJ.

Give Lulay time in the pocket and Lulay is very tough to stop and we have the receiving crew to cause a lot of damage. I differ with you regarding Cavillo if he was playing behind our offensive line. He would have gotten rid of the football quicker but thats not saying that he would have been any more successful in last nights game.

I want to hit on an excelent point you made...and that is Montreal''s offence is geared to be a difficult defense to blitz. On the first series we blitzed against Cavillo...the hitch screen to Green for 51 yds was an example of a play call that was prepared for our initial strategy.

I also agree with you that our offensive lineman are not playing as well as last season. Have to admit I liked Newman in the guard spot last season but Hameister Rees had an excellent game against Winnipeg. Archibald has not been nowhere as good this season as last and Olifoye has also not played as well. Valli's play or lack thereof is obvious to anyone looking at our line play...right now, based on his play he shouldn't be out there.

However, what drove me crazy against Montreal was not the poor pass blocks by individuals. It was that guys were coming completely free with a five man Montreal pass rush. It even happened with their four man rush. Those are just plain missed assignments against stunts, loops, or blitzing linebackers. When you see two of our lineman double teaming and another defensive player shooting the gap...its a coaching problem.

I wrote this on the Offensive line thread but I'll repeat it. We went into this game expecting to get blitzed as its now the book on us as well as more man coverage. We knew that our offensive line is not playing as well as in the past and it was our 3rd game in 12 days so fatigue could also be a factor. Therefore we had to expect pressure on the quarterback, due to all three factors...expecing the blitz, poorer line play, and fatigue.

So one wquld expect some quick hitting pass plays, more hitch plays, screens, anti-blitz strategies..etc. etc. One would have expected a few maximum protection formations and with a deep ball early. One would have expected a lot more rollouts, sprint outs, misdirection, movement of the pocket.

Instead, of giving Lulay more tools we kept himn in the pocket without any quick release options too often. The best example was the last play of the game. Montreal had brougvht heat 3 times in a row...almost brought the house on the second down. So what do we have Arland Bruce runinng...a crossing pattern that takes time....not smart at all.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
lfpeterson64
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There should be a way for our D Line to prevent the Al's offensive linemen from getting so deep into our line-backing corp., that popped out at me a bit this game...the Al's O Linemen were firing out against little or no resistance at times it seemed...and with the Al's overloading and hitting those quick outs and slants, it was double trouble for us...get that ironed out, and it will make things easier all around for next week...apparently, part of the Al's game plan was to do things that would neutralize some of our key guys, like Bighill and Williams...We'll adjust...BC by two touch downs next time.
Blitz
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lfpeterson64 wrote:There should be a way for our D Line to prevent the Al's offensive linemen from getting so deep into our line-backing corp., that popped out at me a bit this game...the Al's O Linemen were firing out against little or no resistance at times it seemed...and with the Al's overloading and hitting those quick outs and slants, it was double trouble for us...get that ironed out, and it will make things easier all around for next week...apparently, part of the Al's game plan was to do things that would neutralize some of our key guys, like Bighill and Williams...We'll adjust...BC by two touch downs next time.
Montreal was prepared well for us. Their offence, which is a quick throwing offence, was even more prepared with the slants and quick outs to take away any pressure we tried to bring. The hitch to Green, for a 51 yd gain, was one example of their many quick hitting plays in the first quarter. I thought our defense played very well overall and we forced Cavillo on a number of two and outs but we gave up a number of big plays on defense that really hurt us.

I think our defense will be better next week. Stubler might have mixed a few more blitzes in there in the second half but overall his strategy of rushing mostly four or three, with the occasional five man blitz worked outside of those big plays. Be interesting to see how Stubler plays it next weekend...I agree we'll adjust.

On offence I think the best adjustment we could make is to get WestCoastJoe suited up and playing on the offensive line. He is so passionate about Lulay that | believe that he could take out 3 blitzing linebackers by himself!! :wink: :wink: :wink:
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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WestCoastJoe
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Blitz wrote: On offence I think the best adjustment we could make is to get WestCoastJoe suited up and playing on the offensive line. He is so passionate about Lulay that | believe that he could take out 3 blitzing linebackers by himself!! :wink: :wink: :wink:
Stupid joke. :wink: Ha ha

As I have said I am going to reduce my defending of Lulay, down to about zero. It was tiring and time consuming. Once I posted the videos of our O Line breakdowns versus the Bombers, and with James posting the pix of the same versus the Alouettes, we could see the enormous pressure Lulay was facing. I thought the defending needed to be done, and after reviewing the posts I still feel that. Even moreso.

And as I do every so often, I am going to change my habits. Been thinking about it for a few days.

Posting football has been taking up too much of my time lately (Those videos in the Tweak the O thread, and above, took a lot of time. Glad to see James do the Alouettes video work, and glad to see we got some focus on the O Line and the pass protection problems. :thup: ) Getting older. Still working hard. I will still blog, but I would look for another volunteer to post the odds, and the pre game, the game thread and the post game.

And this is not about defending Lulay, or a disagreement with Blitz about Lulay or pass protection, as on most issues we tend to agree.

It's about breaking a habit: posting too much, computer obsession.

Ain't going anywhere, at least not out of the country for a while, but spend too much time on the computer.

Costa Rica, or Panama or Ecuador sound pretty good, in the not too distant future.
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notahomer
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AC has had his bad games so far this season too. Black keeps raving on and on about how such an ancient master he is and how he's gonna be playing another 50 years if he can. No way.....

Those rough games earlier, he was getting smashed and knocked around. And then throws a ball before he should. AC is an awesome Hof Fame QB but he also puts his pants on the same way everybody else on his team does. Will he burn a defense faster than Joey Elliott or Alex Brink. Of course based on their CFL experience. But what he does have in common with every QB (there may be an exception but I can't think of one off the top of my head) is he doesn't seem to play as well when he's getting hurried and hit.

Decent piece about the Lions O-line in todays Province (read it in the coffee shop-I'll try to post the link). Usual stuff gets done about once a year. The forgotten boys on the line.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Weig ... story.html
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With the 3 games in 13 days or whatever I don't understand why they didn't put Norman in for at least some plays in the last two games.
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Rammer
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notahomer wrote:AC has had his bad games so far this season too. Black keeps raving on and on about how such an ancient master he is and how he's gonna be playing another 50 years if he can. No way.....

Those rough games earlier, he was getting smashed and knocked around. And then throws a ball before he should. AC is an awesome Hof Fame QB but he also puts his pants on the same way everybody else on his team does. Will he burn a defense faster than Joey Elliott or Alex Brink. Of course based on their CFL experience. But what he does have in common with every QB (there may be an exception but I can't think of one off the top of my head) is he doesn't seem to play as well when he's getting hurried and hit.

Decent piece about the Lions O-line in todays Province (read it in the coffee shop-I'll try to post the link). Usual stuff gets done about once a year. The forgotten boys on the line.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Weig ... story.html

Have to say that AC pulled a lucky toss when he avoided the 4th quarter potential sack and found Bratton (?). Muamba should have had an INT on that play, he was in place long before the ball went overtop of him. If Muamba does what he should have, AC doesn't make that go ahead TD drive and the Lions are in control of the game.
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MexicoLionFan
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B.C.FAN wrote:
MexicoLionFan wrote:That is because our talent is 2nd to none in this league, but we need the coaching to match...we will always be fine with Stubler, and MB is doing a good job as HC...even McMann has dramatically improved as ST coach...but JC and DORAZIO are going the wrong way, in the face of something very simple...playing to burn the blitz...just look at Calvillo...our 3rd play call from scrimmage, Stubler blitzed both Bighill (who struggled all night) and McKenzie (invisible) and Calvillo promptly hit Green on the WR inside screen (a pathetically simple play) and burned us for 51 yards...after that, we didn't blitz much...
If we're blaming coaching for the loss, I wouldn't let Stubler off the hook. The Lions gave up four offensive TDs, tying a season high, including two rushing plays that should have been stopped at the line of scrimmage. The Lions had given up only three rushing TDs in the first eight games but the Als converted short-yardage plays at will in this game. Anthony Calvillo's 321 passing yards marked only the second time this year the Lions gave up 300 yards through the air. Montreal's 370 yards of offence was also the second highest total by a B.C. opponent this year. This game was a battle between Montreal's league-leading offence and B.C.'s league-leading defence. Montreal's offence won.

Don't agree BCFAN...the goal line gaffs are on the players like Bighill, who had a poor game, and not the coaches...and as for Calvillo's numbers and Montreal's offensive numbers, they are skewed on 2 PLAYS...the lucky guess on the Green 51 yard pick up when Stubler blitzed both Biggie and Mac, and then the atrocious angle taken by Muamba, which should have been an easy pick on the huge pick up by Bratton in the 4th...one was just a lucky call by Montreal and the other is all on the rookie...take those 2 plays away and our D shut down the Als BIG TIME...the Lions D played championship football, our offence play PEE WEE football...across the board...
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Leos87
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How is Lulay not to blame at all? He has been very mediocre so far this year, he looks much like he did through the first half of last season. Maybe some of it has to do with the offensive line, but he's continuously missing open receivers. Case in point, Sean Gore wide open on a crossing route over the middle, which would have been an easy TD for the win. Lulay did not even look at him. I find that Lulay tends to lock into his hot route and almost refuses to look to the other side of the field, this happens all the time. He has thrown so many poor balls this year including the other night, where if not for Arland Bruce going up to get 3 overthrown balls this game wouldn't even have been close. Thought Muamba was horrible as well last game. Once again, for about the 8th year in a row, the play calling is driving me crazy. Talent all over the field... USE IT! How many more times are we going to have to see the Lions in a 2nd and long situation where Lulay throws a 5 yard pass expecting his receiver to break one or two tackles to get a first down, it's absolutely ridiculous. This team needs to smarten up, the defence has carried us through yet another weak start and if Lulay doesn't pick it up it's going to catch up to us again, like it did Friday. Would be nice to see some discipline as well toom last couple games have been very out of the ordinary in that department.
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Forgot to mention... Harris not getting the ball until the 3rd quarter is almost over is ridiculous. What did he have like 100+ yards on 8 carries and 2 receptions? You may want to incorporate this guy.... Just a thought.
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MikeAK
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I don't know if I agree with you about Lulay being mediocre, Leos87. I do think he suffers from a bit of tunnel vision and hangs onto the ball too long but every QB has their weaknesses. I would take Lulay over any other QB in the league. Remember that this is only his 2nd full season as a starting QB. He's only going to improve as time goes on.
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DanoT
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Most of Lulay's deficiencies would vanish with better O line protection. Teams are keying on Harris as he is the Lions best weapon, so maybe the strategy was to break some tendencies and us other weapons more. It didn't seem to work. :2cents:
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DanoT wrote:Most of Lulay's deficiencies would vanish with better O line protection. Teams are keying on Harris as he is the Lions best weapon, so maybe the strategy was to break some tendencies and us other weapons more. It didn't seem to work. :2cents:
Most quarterbacks look very good when they have time to throw on the wide and long Canadian field. All quarterbacks have their struggles from Cavillo to Burris etc. when they don't have time to throw.

However, there are ways to overcome pressure. When its a single defensive player coming free on a four man rush most coaches hope that the quarterback can be mobile enough to avoid the single rusher that has come free. Individual breakdowns at the offensive line of scrimmage happen in every game on every team. In blitz situations that can be much more difficult.

I looked at what Montreal did early in this game, anticipating we would come with the bltiz. They ran a hitch screens to Green and a quick seam pattern to Whittaker for the touchdown on their first drive of the game.,,both anti-bltiz strategies expecting. Montreal ran a lot of quick throwing vertical plays.

In contrast you only have to look at the pass patterns we ran on our first drive. Or look at the final two pass plays we ran down at the goal line at the end of the game. Slow developing pass plays when we obviously needed to run something quicker. On our final drive we hit Bruce on a crossing pattern in which we were fortunate to get a first down as Bruce had to come back for the football and then make a great play to cut ufield on a dime. On the final play of the game its obvious that Bruce is the guy we are looking to throw to. We have all our receivers to the right side of the field and try to bring Bruce over to the vacant left area of the field on a crossing pattern... a slow developing play and not the kind of play call that was needed for that situation, especially with the knowledge that Montreal was bringing heat.

If an opposition defense is bltizing or its obvious that your offensive line is not playing well there are strategies that can be employed. You just can't say that there is not enough protection and therefore our quarterback and our offence are in a futile situation. You adapt in a game or even in a season until yuo can get the problem of protection improved or fixed.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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WestCoastJoe
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Rammer wrote:
notahomer wrote:AC has had his bad games so far this season too. Black keeps raving on and on about how such an ancient master he is and how he's gonna be playing another 50 years if he can. No way.....

Those rough games earlier, he was getting smashed and knocked around. And then throws a ball before he should. AC is an awesome Hof Fame QB but he also puts his pants on the same way everybody else on his team does. Will he burn a defense faster than Joey Elliott or Alex Brink. Of course based on their CFL experience. But what he does have in common with every QB (there may be an exception but I can't think of one off the top of my head) is he doesn't seem to play as well when he's getting hurried and hit.

Decent piece about the Lions O-line in todays Province (read it in the coffee shop-I'll try to post the link). Usual stuff gets done about once a year. The forgotten boys on the line.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Weig ... story.html
Have to say that AC pulled a lucky toss when he avoided the 4th quarter potential sack and found Bratton (?). Muamba should have had an INT on that play, he was in place long before the ball went overtop of him. If Muamba does what he should have, AC doesn't make that go ahead TD drive and the Lions are in control of the game.
That was so close. Cauchy is quite athletic, but his angle was not good, and he just missed deflecting the ball.
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