2013 British Columbia General Election Thread

[Robbie]

I mentioned before that the Canadian Federal Elections have had decreasing voter turnouts over the last few decades:

1984 - 75.3%
1988 - 75.3%
1993 - 69.6%
1997 - 67.0%
2000 - 61.3%
2004 - 60.9%
2006 - 64.7%
2008 - 58.8%
2011 - 61.1%

And along with that, the BC General Elections have even lower turnouts with a record low turnout in 2009.

1983 - 70.34%
1986 - 65.80%
1991 - 64.03%
1996 - 59.11%
2001 - 55.44%
2005 - 58.19%
2009 - 50.99%

Let's see if an even lower voter turnout will be established in 2013.

[KnowItAll]

damn. Christy is so blowing it.

Campbell turned the ship toward the shore and drove it towards the rocks, abandoning ship at the last moment.

Chrity had a slim chance to turn the ship around, instead its like she is just increasing the speed.

Now we gonna have to suffer through another damn NDP govt and there is nothing anyone who doesnt want that can do about it. grrrrrrr

I wish that Justin had stayed here in BC and ended up leading the BC libs instead of Christy.

I do like Christy some, but she just doesnt seem to get it.

[TheLionKing]

The Conservatives are blowing themselves right out of the water. Another candidate resigned today. That makes 3

[D]

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so true

[Toppy Vann]

I am not a fan of the Canadian Tax Payers Federation as these right organizations can be zealots and irrational too often.

But they note that BC taxpayers are getting more and more piled onto them. As for the municipalities, more has been pushed down to them by the Province. BC complains that Ottawa won't spend gas taxes on transportation but BC is no different.

I'd like to see BC and Canadian politics go back to debating policy issues - but attack politics works with the voters so why would they change.

The reality is that the NDP will do what the Liberals are doing - making gov't books look good by making users pay all the while able to show how low taxes are. That is not only dishonest it fails to meet tax fairness in a progressive income tax system - fair, transparent and equal for all.

User fees are equal but if funded by taxes all will pay their fair share - proportionate.

As we move to a more user fee system we lose the benefits of progressive income tax and millionaires pay the same as poor families and people on disability allowances and disabled.

The use of Hydro as a cash cow will see consumer rates rise 50% in 5 years - now they are doing the same at ICBC. taken nearly $700 million from optional and left us to pay 11.2% more on basic. The CACBC website report shows the hypocrisy of this profit taking as the government was only able to keep the ICBC down to 11.2 for 2012 as they allowed optional to subsidize basic just this year. The Gov't Special Directions were altered to keep the rate down by counting just the financial results from the 4th Q and some other little wrinkles. If they took all of the prior year the rate for 2012 would have been double 11.2 but they counted just the 4th Q. NDP says they too will keep doing this - profit taking for health and education. Unfair to motorists. The analogy I use is that the gov't was losing the football game to BC Lions 42 to 0 early in the 4th Q so they changed the rules to count just the score in the 4th Q. Paul M. kicks 4 FGs to the govt's TD for 7 but wait - Lions lose as the gov't just before the end of the game added that only TDs count.

At ICBC we pay a 4.4% prem. tax plus basic insurance pays all road safety costs (not optional which free rides) plus basic pays over $100 million to operate the driver and vehicle licencing systems sending all revenues to gov't.

Hydro has deferred debt building that even the gov't audit says is adding to the large debt increase.

Translink seemed a good idea but the gov't is not helping them fund it and cities and towns are getting far less in grants now from gov't while having to pay all the transportation costs. Not good. We need good transport to make our economy work.

[notahomer]

... - but attack politics works with the voters so why would they change.

...

I agree completely with this statement. I think there are serious flaws with our so-called democracy. Too many to list here. And NO, I don't have a better alternative, so YES it would still be my choice of government.

That being said, I think THE NUMBER ONE flaw with democracy is that politicians either say what they will do and/or make decisions based on being elected/re-elected. I know, I know whats wrong with that? Well, good government in my eyes makes the best decisions and those decisions are NOT ALWAYS popular. I wish there was a way governments could get elected based on the quality of their actual choices instead of whether or not it would get them votes. This flaw (okay, percieved flaw on my part) shows up all the time. It is exactly why Political Parties of all stripes are reluctant to CUT PROGRAMS OR RAISE TAXES. When I was in highschool, federal/provincal governments borrowed money to pay for things people were not willing to pay for via higher taxes. The government programs I use are necessities, the government programs you use (unless I use them too) are wastes of money that should be cut.

Municipal governments are the strangest ones because I believe (don't quote me) they are THE ONLY level of government that has to get approval from its electorate before going into debt.

Yes, attack politics have research backing their efficacy so to some extent I'm surprised Dix and the NDP haven't been more attack oriented. Dix seemed quite laid back today considering he was given the opportunity to pile on Clarks 'red light' issue. Cummins took the bait. Maybe Dix is saving his mud for the debate.

The debate is not going to impact how I vote. I'm going to watch and I'm sure I'll hear good/bad come out of all four leaders microphones. All in all, as far as elections go.....it's all quiet on the western front, (IMO). This has got to have been one of the quietest, in the background election campaigns I've ever followed........

[KnowItAll]

more people are influenced by the media than the politicians themselves.

[TheLionKing]

Conservative candidate in Vancouver West End resigns. That makes 4

[Sir Purrcival]

" Well, good government in my eyes makes the best decisions and those decisions are NOT ALWAYS popular"

Truer words have never been spoken but they are reflected so poorly in practise. It seems to me that there is a fundamental flaw with the voter mentality. You vote for people to conduct the business of the state. If you don't like the job they do, you fire them after 4 years (barring extreme wrong doing). Never once was voting for someone meant to mean that they would do exactly what you want. Some jobs require tough decisions at times, decisions that are not always popular but necessary nonetheless. Doing a good job means that you put the needs and interests of the province as a whole above the wants of a few select individuals. To much of the system we now have encourages favouritism.

[Blue In BC]

IMO voters vote to get rid of a current government more than they vote on the merits of the replacement. When there are really only two choices it's a seesaw over time.

The last time the NDP were in power, voters wanted them gone and IIRC the NDP was down to 2 seats? This time voters want the Liberals gone and the cycle continues.

It's the sad nature of politics

[Toppy Vann]

" Well, good government in my eyes makes the best decisions and those decisions are NOT ALWAYS popular"

Truer words have never been spoken but they are reflected so poorly in practise. It seems to me that there is a fundamental flaw with the voter mentality. You vote for people to conduct the business of the state. If you don't like the job they do, you fire them after 4 years (barring extreme wrong doing). Never once was voting for someone meant to mean that they would do exactly what you want. Some jobs require tough decisions at times, decisions that are not always popular but necessary nonetheless. Doing a good job means that you put the needs and interests of the province as a whole above the wants of a few select individuals. To much of the system we now have encourages favouritism.

Voters have changed their views on this view of representative democracy. Decades earlier you'd have politicians do the right thing while going against their constituents views on the issue and then be judged on the overall record. Cases in point - capital punishment, abortion issues. Now voters will take their single issue and toss their member at the next election.

I also think voters for too long have believed that all politicians are bad and even back when I felt there was more working together between the parties in Canada (minority gov'ts during the 60s) I could count good people in all parties - not just angry, up tight haters.

We the electorate in Canada have set our expectations so low that the political candidates now mirror our worst night mare.

We see today far fewer successful people willing to seek office as politics is so much a blood sport these days.

If there was one thing I'd demand is that the gov't stop shifting costs to taxpayers for services that are funded by taxes. Stop using Hydro and ICBC as their cash cow - they have become like drug addicts to the cash.

We got an 11.2% basic ICBC rate increase in '12 after the province took their profits of $677 million. If 2013 weren't an election year under the new profit taking rules at ICBC our rate increase would have twice as much. Who cares - no one. Unfair - taxation without representation. Hydro rates to rise 50% in 5 years yet, the province keeps taking 85% of the net income (subject to a few other requirements). Again an unfair tax.

[TheLionKing]

Watched the 1st half hour and last half hour. Adrian Dix looked very nervous. John Cummins looked out of place which is somewhat surprising given the fact he was a MP for a number of years. Christy Clark looked comfortable in front of the television.

[notahomer]

Well, I watched the whole debate. Lots of coverage and tweeting that Dix looked nervous, didn't see it myself but thats me. Its been said by enough others, I must have missed it. IMO, there was no CLEAR winner. If you MADE me rate the candidates I'd say Sterk, Dix, Clark with almost no room between them. Cummins was the clear trailer, IMO but even he was not blown out of the water.

The two leading leaders (Clark/Dix) obviously did hammer home their polished talking points. For e.g. Dix and the NDP are about growing taxes and debt and government, Clark and the Liberals are about growing the economy Dix hammered back with (so did Cummins actually) the facts are, the facts are, the facts are.

Bottom line for me, is both Dix/Clark avoided some questions using misdirection and/or rhetoric at times. Like I said, if forced to choose, Sterk won, IMO.

Cummins did have some good points too, IMO. "I used to be a commercial fisherman" "me and my wife will be getting back in the pickup truck to do our campaigning". Just seemed to be good ways of saying I'm an everyday guy who doesn't have the big election machine my opponents have.

Clark handled the red light thing well, just admit it and it will go away. I didn't like her initial rationalization "it WAS 5 AM" but she's apologized. Considering the tragic accident in Surrey, I think this issue has gotten more weight than it probably usually would.

Dix had almost nothing to gain, IMO. His party is leading and his reputation as a debater was not good. Contrary to polls saying he won, I don't think he did but he certainly didn't lose BIG TIME which I think was the NDP's concern if any. Jas Johal of Global tore Dix apart last Friday after the radio debate. That was a knockout, IMO. But the fact a reporter landed the biggest blow, is probably why these debates probably won't impact the campaign much.

After all, if the Ipsos-Reid poll is right and a 5% margin (35% Dix versus 30% Clark) thinks Dix won, I'm baffled. It was a dead heat, IMO.

[TheLionKing]

Good summary notahomer. There was no clear winner or any knock out punches. I thought Clarke showed she is a better debater than Dix. All the leaders stuck to their party lines.