Riders 37 - Lions 18 Post Game Stats & Comments

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Toppy Vann
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Blitz wrote:The focus, after a poor offensive performance will focus on the quarterback position as it always does and on the offensive line, if the quarterback(s) were under too much pressure.

Casey Printers has looked both sharp and out of sync so far this season. Lulay yesterday showed his potential on a couple of plays but also struggled. The offensive line, with its cast of members having such little CFL game experience, will have its struggles but also played well at times.

The big problem is the problem we've had offensively since 2004. The problem is an offence that can be easily bltized and does not have the anti-blitz strategies to hurt blitzing teams. We've overcome it, at times, in the past with superior talent. We've overcome it in the past because Dickenson would take the brutal hit to make the throw or Printers would escape to make a huge play or a Jarious Jackson would heave one deep downfield. However, it has always required great plays by individuals, to overcome the opposition blitz, and that's impossible to do, all the time.

So, instead, we had a Dickenson swarmed, a Printers running for his life, a Buck Pierce taking a bashing, and a Jarious Jackson who couldn't deliver the big play often enough. The quarterbacks took the heat, the offensive line was consistently criticized for giving up the most sacks in the league, and the same old continues.

However, until our offensive structure and play calling learns how to combat the blitz. we'll continue to see it and continue to struggle. Every CFL defensive coordinator knows our offence and they know that blitzing it often is the key to making it difficult for us. We've got the same recipe for years and years and still we keep doing the same old things that don't work and continue not to use screens and other anti-blitz strategies.

Sad, frustrating, etc. and no quarterback or offensive line can overcome it by themselves.
While if there is any need of proof of the offensive scheming you need only look at the Buck Pierce stats in two games with the Bombers including hits he has taken. Granted he says he has healed and was hurt last season but at the same time his offensive schemes in the 'Peg seem to keep defenses more honest than BC's does. If the Bombers had the Lions defensive ST coverage Pierce's stats would have been in the blow out range even with one of the 8 quarters he played a bit of a disaster (one fumble, one Int).

There have just been too many changes with the Lions some of them in recent years not needed and for little reason. Any time an O line has this many players in new positions you have to believe it is a huge uphill battle. All this has changed the culture of the team and others with more stability like the Riders keep building and despite Tillman moving on, the Riders keep going in the same direction.

There seems to be good potential with the new players but that all takes time to get to wins. This will be a tough year in a year they need to be marketing their team for a return to the dome.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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WestCoastJoe
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Lionut wrote:The Lions were running with the smallest splits on the offensive line that I have seen in pro football in a long time. Their splits were maybe a foot and a half, whereas you see most pro teams these days running with three foot splits. If you watch the U.S. college teams who run the spread offense, their splits are even wider.

We run with those tight splits in youth football, where running inside is rare and you often don't trust your blocking. The problem is that it doesn't give your QB any throwing lanes, and it gives "edge" rushers a very short route to your QB. It was very strange to see, and I still can't figure out what they were trying to accomplish with it.

Bottom line - until that offensive line play improves dramatically, not much else really matters. Fixing that has to be priority one.
I have to say that after seeing Dan Dorazio's O Line for 8 years now, he seems a bit like a "mad scientist" to me. Those tiny splits they used last night were kids stuff from youth football. The sad thing is our O Line guys are busting their butts and playing in fear in a dysfunctional scheme.

With those tight splits, the rush ends and the LBs had virtually a direct route, unblocked, to the QB. Printers and Lulay made microsecond reads to get rid of the ball as quickly as they did.

At times it looks like Dorazio and Chapdelaine do not work together. The O Line has their assignments, but the overall play design seems like it is deaf and dumb. For example, when the Riders put 2 LBs outside one of the tackles, our O Line ignores it (they have other jobs, and there is no blocking back), and the play design lets the LBs get after the QB like unchecked heat seeking missiles.

Teams like the Riders, Alouettes and Stampeders take their play book, and refine it for each different opponent, focusing on vulnerabilities, and putting in subtle changes. Our plays, both on O and D, look the same, time after time, no matter who the opponent is.

What was discouraging to me was seeing that look on the faces of our players, and in their body language. It was that "Uh oh" look. "We are in trouble, and we do not have a clue how to right the ship."

QBs ... IMO did alright, running for their lives, making some plays anyway. Lucky if they got one steamboat to read the D.

O Line ... gotta put it on the coaches. Play design, play calling, O Line schemes, techniques, all of it.

Receivers ... Paris should not have played. Arceneaux seems to be having sophomore troubles. No NFL shot if he does not kick it into gear.

Armstrong is very solid. Geroy is on a path straight into the CFL Hall of Fame. :thup:

Robertson. Well they told us they planned to use the running game less, and we just listened, and now we see how that will look. Looks like Lee and Messam and Harris will be as invisible as Lyle Green was for years. Our coaches too often try to fit square pegs into round holes, rather than designing plays specifically for players.

Pittman continues to look lost. Our D does not look much different than it did last year. Overworked on the D Line. Lost at LB. Soft in the secondary. Predictable in its schemes.
..............

Too negative? Too tough to read? Then don't read it.

Can we right the ship? Will we make it to 9 and 9? Is it possible to contend for top honors this year? I have to say that last possibility is looking less likely now, after a real test by the Riders.

Does it look like we are getting state of the art coaching, in the manner of the Riders, Alouettes and Stampeders? I can't say it does. Trestman and Hufnagel get the recognition as top coaches, but, more and more, I am thinking Miller is under-rated, and is at the very top of the coaching game.

Is it possible we will slip even more this year, despite the promising personnel changes?

One bad game? Panic by the critics? It does not seem like that. It seems worse than just one bad game, by a "young" team. It seems more systemic than that.

The less critical fans will have their say, and will be listened to with respect. And there is that chance that the Lions can make it work. There were some elements that are promising, but the inability to deal with blitzing is basic. If you can't do that, everything starts to fall apart.

It hurts dedicated fans to hear their team criticized, and I sympathize. Been there. But after all these years, I will call it as I see it. Why not?
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West Coast Blue Fan
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Last nights game and the upcoming game against Montreal will be great measuring sticks as to where we are. I don't think many on this board or others thought the Lions were going to go 18-0, more likely anywhere from 8-10 to 12-6.

With this many new starters on both the offence and defence, IMHO I think you'll get a truer measure by week 8. If we are sitting at 1-7, then I would expect to see MAJOR changes (OC , Wally,etc), but if we are at say 4-4, realistically we still have a great opportunity. The Riders certainly look to be the best team thus far, but its a long season and in the West, you really never are out of the playoff hunt.

BTW, the tailgate in Lot 9 was EPIC
I'd love you to say it to my face because you'd only say it once...if you ever had the courage to say it at all!! Blitz, 05/24/2008
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joe kapp22
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West Coast Blue Fan wrote:Last nights game and the upcoming game against Montreal will be great measuring sticks as to where we are. I don't think many on this board or others thought the Lions were going to go 18-0, more likely anywhere from 8-10 to 12-6.

With this many new starters on both the offence and defence, IMHO I think you'll get a truer measure by week 8. If we are sitting at 1-7, then I would expect to see MAJOR changes (OC , Wally,etc), but if we are at say 4-4, realistically we still have a great opportunity. The Riders certainly look to be the best team thus far, but its a long season and in the West, you really never are out of the playoff hunt.

BTW, the tailgate in Lot 9 was EPIC
Exactly, we more than likely will take it on the chin this Friday, but the talented young players are gaining experience at least on Defense.

26 starters (including Kicker and Returner) and how many have less than 2 yrs of experience in the league?

Let me ask, what combined for more yardage, Wes Cates and his performance, or the 16 penalties?
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
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notahomer
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TheLionKing wrote: - Funniest moment of the entire game was when the guy in a wheelchair went on the field being chased by two security guards. I've seen naked streakers but never a guy in a wheelchair.
:whs:

As for the stadium. I prefer outdoor football. I may change my mind after an October monsoon but so far, outdoor is better, IMO. Can you imagine last nights game in the Sauna also known as BC Place.

That being said.... Many complaints about the long beer lines (thankfully root is the only beer I drink). I made the mistake of trusting Transit to get to the game. Big MISTAKE, I got to my seat just as the CF-18 flew over. I'll be arriving near opening from now on. SardineCan after SardineCan floats on by filled to the brim. I'd love to see an Empire Style stadium closer to Skytrain/Downtown but it ain't gonna happen.

The game itself. For quite a few seasons it seems the Lions don't play well in the second half of home football games (I don't have stats, just my impression/memory). This says to me the Lions just don't adjust and/or get tired. I don't mind watching exciting football games where my team ends up losing but its tough to watch your team get taken apart. Its even tougher having GreenMeanies rub in a win. Thankfully many Lions fans are easily able to retort via 13man jokes that grate those Riderfans.

Mccallum's gambling dash on 3rd down seemed to swing the game in the Riders favour for good.

I was happy that Lions fans seemed to understand when to make noise last night and thankfully ignored the dedicated corner (NorthWest) of Riderfans stomping while the Lions offense was on the field. I saw lots of BlueBomber fans at the game tonight, hope you were cheering for the Lions! I just hope Friday is a better game because the second half of this game was a roughride for sure.
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The_Pauser
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I was guilty of leaving the game early and missed Geroy's long TD (I left right after Saskatchewan got their final touchdown). I was walking out the north side when a huge fight brokeout. I guess a guy was having a stag or something, and then this other group just started attacking them. There must have been between 12-16 people involved in that fight and it got pretty massive. Did anyone else notice this?

Security presence was almost non-existant and I felt bad for the one or two security guards who had to jump in there alone until the cavalry came a good 120 seconds later.
Roar you Lions roar!
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WestCoastJoe
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West Coast Blue Fan wrote:Last nights game and the upcoming game against Montreal will be great measuring sticks as to where we are.

With this many new starters on both the offence and defence, IMHO I think you'll get a truer measure by week 8. If we are sitting at 1-7, then I would expect to see MAJOR changes (OC , Wally,etc), but if we are at say 4-4, realistically we still have a great opportunity. The Riders certainly look to be the best team thus far, but its a long season and in the West, you really never are out of the playoff hunt.
True.
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korey&dante4ever
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Whoever decided that the Lions wear black on a hot night should be fired IMO. If this happened in the NFL, they'd be shot.. so i'm giving them a break here IMO...
-Believes in building from the trenches outwards. A great O-Line and D-Line guarantees an above average team.
-A coach that has to give a motivational pregame speech is probably a coach that is insecure about his game plan.
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korey&dante4ever wrote:Whoever decided that the Lions wear black on a hot night should be fired IMO. If this happened in the NFL, they'd be shot.. so i'm giving them a break here IMO...
That would be a bad enough decision all by itself, but knowing the sun would be on their bench to start the game while the Riders had the shade all evening compounded matters all the more.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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korey&dante4ever wrote:Whoever decided that the Lions wear black on a hot night should be fired IMO. If this happened in the NFL, they'd be shot.. so i'm giving them a break here IMO...
I'm not. They're professionals. It shouldn't matter if it's 30 degrees and they're wearing black or it's -10 degrees and wearing parkas. To cut them slack based on the colour they're wearing, I'm sorry, but you're grasping at straws.

They just weren't good enough.
TheLionKing
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Tighthead wrote:

Considering the way the team ran the ball last week, and the fact that the Riders pass rush is complex and effective, I have no clue why we would not come out looking to pound the ball. It also helps the o line settle in.
The only time Jack Chapdelaine calls a running play is to give the quarterback's arms a rest.
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korey&dante4ever
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Canuck_4_Life wrote:
korey&dante4ever wrote:Whoever decided that the Lions wear black on a hot night should be fired IMO. If this happened in the NFL, they'd be shot.. so i'm giving them a break here IMO...
I'm not. They're professionals. It shouldn't matter if it's 30 degrees and they're wearing black or it's -10 degrees and wearing parkas. To cut them slack based on the colour they're wearing, I'm sorry, but you're grasping at straws.

They just weren't good enough.
You misunderstood my post.. obv the riders were the better team, and i wasn't giving the lions any excuse... i'm just saying it is simply UNACCEPTABLE and COMPLETELY MIND BOGGLING how someone can send our players out in those unis... BAFFLING.
-Believes in building from the trenches outwards. A great O-Line and D-Line guarantees an above average team.
-A coach that has to give a motivational pregame speech is probably a coach that is insecure about his game plan.
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Belize City Lion
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korey&dante4ever wrote:
Canuck_4_Life wrote:
korey&dante4ever wrote:Whoever decided that the Lions wear black on a hot night should be fired IMO. If this happened in the NFL, they'd be shot.. so i'm giving them a break here IMO...
I'm not. They're professionals. It shouldn't matter if it's 30 degrees and they're wearing black or it's -10 degrees and wearing parkas. To cut them slack based on the colour they're wearing, I'm sorry, but you're grasping at straws.

They just weren't good enough.
You misunderstood my post.. obv the riders were the better team, and i wasn't giving the lions any excuse... i'm just saying it is simply UNACCEPTABLE and COMPLETELY MIND BOGGLING how someone can send our players out in those unis... BAFFLING.
remember the Seinfeld episode where George gets polyester uniforms for the Yankees and they play poorly because polyester is too hot? K&D4ever has a very valid point. Yes, the Leos would have still lost if they were wearing lighter colours, but in professional sports you take every edge you can get.
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Teams like the Riders, Alouettes and Stampeders take their play book, and refine it for each different opponent, focusing on vulnerabilities, and putting in subtle changes. Our plays, both on O and D, look the same, time after time, no matter who the opponent is.
It's hard for Chaps to take the playbook and refine it for each different opponent...it's only 2-3 pages long. But be that as it may, Wally is the person who needs to go...maybe a good GM but past his prime as a head coach. It's tough to watch what has happened over the last few years. There is a lot of talent on the team and I always thought the coaches job was to put them in the best possible position to succeed, but apparently that's the wrong way to think. Is Dave Ritchie still around...maybe we could start up a collection and an email campaign to bring him back. Just my frustrations coming out.
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Canuck_4_Life wrote:
korey&dante4ever wrote:Whoever decided that the Lions wear black on a hot night should be fired IMO. If this happened in the NFL, they'd be shot.. so i'm giving them a break here IMO...
I'm not. They're professionals. It shouldn't matter if it's 30 degrees and they're wearing black or it's -10 degrees and wearing parkas. To cut them slack based on the colour they're wearing, I'm sorry, but you're grasping at straws.

They just weren't good enough.
Heck, I am a Riders fan, but I have to say that if you do not think that standing in the sun all that time has an impact on a player, you do not get it. Was it the major factor? Nope, but was it a factor? I think by the third Q it did help to sap some strength.
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