Lionbackers.com

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Do any Lionbackers want Chapdelaine back? Not me.

How many of us have confidence that Kruck/Dorazio/Buono are on the right track in the type of offense they are developing? I have that confidence in them.

GOD NO!!!!

That would be the most foolish, and regressive move we could ever make, and Wally would look a looser, taking back his old OC who left him like a blasted whale to flounder, beached on a sand bar!

If Geroy was referring to the fact it was necessary to use all three pivots due in injury, as inconsistent then I agree, but that is something Kruck/ Dorasio had no control over. On the contrary, they came out with consistently well thought out game plans for Lion's share of the season.

It was during the last four games of the season we got away from our running game, and our balanced attack.

It was as through we were trying to proof we could play better "Chap ball" than "The Chap".

Gerry wrote:

Lastunas wrote:Blitz. It sounds like your upset (so am I) and you're looking for a whipping boy.

If you're looking to hang Sunday's loss on any one player. I could give you a dozen names before Geroy.

He tells it like it is. I agreed with most of his criticisms this season. Not hiring an offensive coordinator was a bad idea. That two headed monster that is Kruck/Dorazio was a problem all year. Yes we were the highest scoring team, but we didn't have the best offence by a long shot:

Lions Team Rank:
Passing Offence -- 246.9 yards per game (6th in CFL);
Rushing Offence -- 120.8 ypg (3rd);
Total Offence -- 346.8 ypg (5th). 8)

A fifth place offence won't win you a Grey Cup. Nor should it.
Joe Smith's 1510 yards and Geroy's 1293 yards kind of clouds the picture somewhat. Our offence was never balanced this year.

I'm hoping Geroy's comments will facilitate changes in the off-season

Good post, and shows how statistics can be used to prove the point you want to make, as Blitz has done earlier in the thread. Seems to me that Blitz is doing more whining than he accuses Simon of.

I understand you might be disappointed at how the season ended, Blitz, but this thread is uncalled for, IMO.

I personally don't think Geroy said anything unreasonable. How it's perceived by someone else can obviously be skewed by their personal opinion of Geroy.
This thread feels like an airing of dirty laundry. If someone supposedly has insider knowledge of things going on in the locker room, I think that should stay confidential. Just my opinion. 8)

Geroy whined about our offence and losing The Chap for the first half of the season. Then he got into Buck's face. Then, when he had a break out game he yelled in Wally's face.

I guarantee you Geroy wasnt yelling just to be cute. There is a lot of emotion going on behind closed doors. IT IS NOTHING more frustrating than having a coach saying you are not performing and not giving you an opportuninty to redeem yourself.

midwestlion wrote:

Geroy whined about our offence and losing The Chap for the first half of the season. Then he got into Buck's face. Then, when he had a break out game he yelled in Wally's face.

I guarantee you Geroy wasnt yelling just to be cute. There is a lot of emotion going on behind closed doors. IT IS NOTHING more frustrating than having a coach saying you are not performing and not giving you an opportuninty to redeem yourself.

I also think he had good reason to say what he did, and he was obviously frustrated.

Using the word "whining" implies being a crybaby and complaining with no reason.

How many of us have confidence that Kruck/Dorazio are on the right track in the type of offense they are developing?

My confidence could be politely described as lukewarm on those two at the OC position and I'd be open to a change if the right person was out there. Note that that right person's initials are not JC.

cromartie wrote:

How many of us have confidence that Kruck/Dorazio are on the right track in the type of offense they are developing?

My confidence could be politely described as lukewarm on those two at the OC position and I'd be open to a change if the right person was out there. Note that that right person's initials are not JC.

That is pretty much my sentiment. A team is supposed to build over the season, adding wrinkles and plays, and running at its peak in the playoffs. This offence seemed to regress - got away from play action and running, started trying to get Clermont killed, took fewer deep shots.

I think our lost depth at WR may have really hurt us.

joesports wrote:

midwestlion wrote:

Geroy whined about our offence and losing The Chap for the first half of the season. Then he got into Buck's face. Then, when he had a break out game he yelled in Wally's face.

I guarantee you Geroy wasnt yelling just to be cute. There is a lot of emotion going on behind closed doors. IT IS NOTHING more frustrating than having a coach saying you are not performing and not giving you an opportuninty to redeem yourself.

I also think he had good reason to say what he did, and he was obviously frustrated.

Using the word "whining" implies being a crybaby and complaining with no reason.

It also usually implies that the person was speaking out on his own about something... in this case, it comes from a post-game interview, probably in response to a "what do you think went wrong" type of question from a reporter (indeed, we never actually hear the question, so have no idea how leading it may have been), immediately after a very disappointing loss.

At least most of these guys actually have something to say in those situations, unlike your average hockey player who just mumbles the same standard clap-trap.

Tighthead wrote:

cromartie wrote:

How many of us have confidence that Kruck/Dorazio are on the right track in the type of offense they are developing?

My confidence could be politely described as lukewarm on those two at the OC position and I'd be open to a change if the right person was out there. Note that that right person's initials are not JC.

That is pretty much my sentiment. A team is supposed to build over the season, adding wrinkles and plays, and running at its peak in the playoffs. This offence seemed to regress - got away from play action and running, started trying to get Clermont killed, took fewer deep shots.

I think our lost depth at WR may have really hurt us.

Let me emphasize. I think the concept of the offense, and the idea Buono had behind it is correct. It is not a coincidence that BC and Toronto finished first in their respective divisions with similar conceptual offenses. However, the execution of said offenses, and the fact that Buono twice had to go to his play callers and advise them to diversify the running game during the season, concerns me.

That said, I worship at the altar of Dorazio as an offensive line coach. I want to emphasize that too.

How come when Geroy points out that the offence changed too much, he's whining (a term I find a little disrespectful for a future Wall Of Famer) but when Dave says the same thing - or even more inflammatory - he's "honest," "insightful," and a "good interview."

DH 8)

David wrote:How come when Geroy points out that the offence changed too much, he's whining (a term I find a little disrespectful for a future Wall Of Famer) but when Dave says the same thing - or even more inflammatory - he's "honest," "insightful," and a "good interview."

DH 8)

I don't think those were the prevailing sentiments after week 1, when he criticized Dorazio and Kruck for the game plan against Toronto. The sentiment is simple. Don't throw your coaching staff under the bus publicly.

Blitz wrote:

We had more turnovers last season and almost every defensive player scoered a touchdown last year. How many defensive touchdowns did we have this season? No many!!

yeah? How many SHORT fields did the D and ST's give our Offense this year? A hell of a lot more than last year. We racked up the points, cuz we DIDN'T have to go that far to score. How many possessions did we have in total, and how many times did we succumb to the dreaded two-and-out disease? Waaaaay too many.

The fact is that we finished first in the league in scoring this season and we didn't last year and we did it with less turnovers by our defense and far less defensive touchdowns.

We DIDN'T finish first in the league. We may have had the most points at the end of the regular season, and been IN first place at that point in time, but the ONLY team that finishes first, is the one that wins the Grey Cup. How many were "close" games, where the ONLY reason we won was because their offense screwed up, or the kicker was off by 3 inches and hit an upright/went wide? How many times did we win ONLY BECAUSE the defense made a timely interception and STOPPED the oppositions drive that was merrily marching down the field? Several of the games we won, were won only because of that. Giving our team another short field to go add some "insurance" points if they could, and quite often, they couldn't even manage that. two-and-out.... two-and-out. There were too many times this year whereby that could've been our mantra.

Again, NOT our offense that won us those games.

Geroy also didn't say our offence was 'inconsistent" He said it 'struggled' all season" It didn't!! It stuggled early though. Geroy wasn't saying our offence was 'struggling' in the second half, when we were throwing to him a lot.

It DID struggle most of the year. Early, middle and late. Unless you count the last game of the season as not being a struggle to win, only because their kicker was off by 3inches with no time on the clock?

The fact is that when Geroy is getting thrown to a lot he's happy

Yeah? And show me a reciever who is any different? I've thrown to a recievers and they're all the same. Give 'em the ball, and their happy. Don't throw it their way for a quarter and they're VERY unhappy, *beeotch*, and moaning, and whining. No different to any other receiver.

In 2005, when he was unhappy again in the first half of that season and Dickenson wasn't getting him the ball and Printers came in and started throwing to Geroy ...he said "Printers is "The Man"! However, when Dickenson threw to him a ton last year suddenly Dickenson was "The Man"

Hmmmmmm.. let me see.. the MAIN QB in 2005 was labeled "the man". The MAIN QB in 2006 was labeled "the man"... Geroy wins the receiving title and is labeled "the man"... Joe Smith wins the rushing title and is labeled "the man"... nope, there's no connection there.

He's very talented...no question!

Agreed.

BTW: I'm not a Geroy diehard. I'm a Clermont die-hard, so this isn't due to any overwhelming emotional response to an attach on my favourite player or anything. Before Clermont I was a Trevathan die-hard.

But he's also immature and not a leader.[/quote]
So what? And I would argue on both points to be honest. Then again, neither are Terrel Owens or Randy Moss, but I take it you wouldn't want them on your team either, cuz all they do, ala Chris Carter, is score touchdowns, and sulk/*beeotch*/moan/complain/go ballistic when they aren't getting passed to.

He's a fair weather player.

What? WTF is a "fair weather player"..only plays in good weather? No, seriously, what is a "fair weather player"

When it's going his way he's happy. When it's not he sulks and he can be caustic!!

Again, show me a top-line receiver who isn't. Owens? Moss? And Owens has his blowups ON the sideline, DURING the game.

I recognize his significant contributions to our Leos. I think he's still the best receiver in the league. However, that doesn't excuse his comments or his behavior when things are tough out there for him!!

Ever played in the WDF and had a camera and microphone shoved into your face after an embarassing loss? How did you handle it? Assuming, of course, you were in a heated WDF game for the Lions.

Talent is not an excuse for a lack of leadership or teammanship!

Hmm.. two words: Owens and Moss (OK, technically that was 3 words) Your point is what? They shouldn't be on a team? I've heard our O-line guys criticize the offense when they suck, so there can't be too much leadership in our offense.

Printers took a beating on this website for a lot less.

Are you kidding me? The constant quotes and gripes, was "a lot less".

Geroy says it like it is is not acceptable.

Again, ever been in that same situation.. WDF, bad loss, mic/camera shoved in your face while you're still hot?

He's part of a team and he just criticized his coaches. If he has a problem he should talk to them...not give out cheap shots in the press!!

Sorry, I must've missed the quote where he named the coaches you are saying he criticized. Can you point me to that section. I can't find it. He did criticize the entire offense, of which I do beleive he is a part of, so included himself in that evaluation.

I mean, stats are what losers look back on to make themselves feel better. Wins and trophies are what the winners look back on. Our coaching by committee was a baaaaad experiment, but something worth exploring as we hadn't had it before. But, as this year attested to, if it isn't changed next year, we won't be in the Grey Cup then either. These two couldn't stay consistent. There were too many "what do we do now?" situations, cuz they'd run out of ideas. They WERE inconsistent, and they DID struggle, and we were more lucky than good that we had the record we did. Some may argue that it's better to be lucky than good. yeah, got us real far this year, didn't it? It was going to catchup with us either by the playoffs, or during. In this case it caught up during the playoffs.

I don't care if Wally picks one of the two he has now, but this coaching by committee doesn't work. Never has done, in any league.

And Geroy is a "cancer"? Please, a bit less of the melodramatics. The guy, as has been noted many, many times over the past few years, is the epitome of a class act. A "cancer" is what Printers was, and still is. It won't be any different in Hamilton. They won't get their money's worth. Printers split the dressing room into two distinct sides. THAT is was a cancer in a team is. Not someone who gives an honest answer, when asked a question.

Nobody is bashing Geroy, we just would appreciate him keeping his criticism to himself and not the media.

Wrong. He was bashing Geroy, and Geroy can say whatever he wants in the media. He is a star player on this team and what he says is news. When a reporter asks him a question, he is entitled to give an honest answer, no matter how much you don't like it.

The offence was inconsistent all year with Dave or Jarius, and it finally caught up with them. The Defence turned the ball over about 50 times this season in good field position for the offence. That is the main reason why our offence "scored so many points"... 20 yard fields. That was the difference in winning and losing many games this year, not how terrific our offence was.

Blitz wrote:Sorry...this was Geroy's exact quote:

"All year we struggled on offence and it all caught up to us"!

I actually agree somewhat with Geroy. The Lions had problems moving the ball consistently all season. They were in the bottom half of the league in total offence, after being first or second in that category since 2003.
The strength of the offence this year was the ground game, but for some reason they went away from it too early on Sunday in my opinion.

It's easy to be a "team guy" when you're a head coach or GM (or a fan). Your success is predicated entirely on the success of the team as a whole.

Not so easy when you're a player. If the team has success but you personally are marginalized, you might not have a job next season. So there's always that fine line balancing team success and personal accomplishment.

Geroy might not be the best team guy, but he certainly doesn't seem like the worst. He believes in himself and he wants the ball. He wears his frustration a little more on his sleeve than most.

Jackson said he was frustrated by being yanked early. Does that make him a "cancer" for the team? Of course not.

Geroy critics line up over here <

Geroy backers line up over there >

One thing we all agree on is that Geroy can be the best receiver in the CFL.

Geroy seems like a lightning rod for strong opinions. Opinions seldom change.

I have reservations about Randy Moss and Terrell Owens, and their effect on team morale. But how can anyone criticize them this year? As Blitz has noted, and I have commented on also, receivers are the high-flyers of a football team, the glamour boys, the attention seekers, often the Prima Donnas. Some coaches will not tolerate them on their teams and are successful. Some few coaches can integrate them into the team with success. On some teams, they do become a disruptive influence. There is no one answer. Owens was horrible in Philadelphia and San Francisco. Moss was horrible in Oakland and had become horrible in Minnesota.

Wally might not be the greatest "big game" coach, but he is a pretty good judge of character. He saw the redeeming values in Carl Kidd, a player much loved on Lionbackers. Not every coach could "handle" Carl Kidd. If Wally thought Geroy was bad for the team, I think he would be gone.

Any of us that have coached at any level have had to deal with "star temperaments." It is a delicate balancing act. You need some of it. You don't want too much of it. I would say Geroy is somewhere in that mix.

Fans don't seem to occupy the middle ground much on issues. Strong feelings one way or the other, and no tolerance for differing opinions. It certainly seems that way in regard to Geroy. It almost reminds me of my teenage years when guys would get into back-yard fights and lose teeth after arguing about which were better, Fords or Chevys.

Geroy had a magical year in 2006. He seemed unhappy for almost all of 2007. Whatever. It's between him and Wally and the team. They can work it out.