Lions ownership discussion thread (Topics merged into here)

[CardiacKid]

Hmmmm...”manageable risk”

“...risk of liability, while possible, is not sufficiently likely or significant”.

Hmmmmm....



Braley needs to start thinking of the potential liability of being sued by the season ticket holders. You know, the ones who are experiencing concussion symptoms from all the bashing their heads against the wall out of sheer frustration.

I have no wish to sound like I am making light of the health issues facing former players. But I am getting frustrated with this never ending stop-start and MY health as a Lions fan is under serious threat.

[Hambone]

It's a factor that a seller in declaring outstanding litigation but if this is the hangup I can't see anyone buying a team as this issue will not go away with a couple of lawsuits.

Every business is open to lawsuits. As such whoever owns the club in the future could be sued at any given time for any number of reasons. You're correct that the concussion issue won't go away. However from what I'm reading into this situation the courts dismissed Bruce's suit as being something for labour arbitration to rule over. Bruce's camp contends that players are independent contractors who would not be served by that process. If the Supreme Court upholds BC courts ruling then Bruce's suit is dead and with it likely the $200M class action suit given the precedent set in Bruce's case. If however SCOC decides to hear Bruce's case and he is successful it will be game on for the other case. If the CFL happened to lose both it could turn a $15M or $20M purchase price into a $35M or $40M bill.

The class action suit covers retired players going back to 1952 before BC even joined the league. If their case fails now taking thousands and thousands of players out of the mix it's hard to imagine the likes of another $200M suit hanging over the heads of the league and its teams anytime soon.

[Huge Talent]

Hmmmm...”manageable risk”

“...risk of liability, while possible, is not sufficiently likely or significant”.

Hmmmmm....



Braley needs to start thinking of the potential liability of being sued by the season ticket holders. You know, the ones who are experiencing concussion symptoms from all the bashing their heads against the wall out of sheer frustration.

Ha! This is gold!

[DanoT]

My hope is that if there is no new owner then Wally should appoint Simon or McVoy as GM and then retire.

[TheLionKing]

My hope is that if there is no new owner then Wally should appoint Simon or McVoy as GM and then retire.

I would think that the new owner(s) will be hiring the new General Manager and not Wally.

[DanoT]

My hope is that if there is no new owner then Wally should appoint Simon or McVoy as GM and then retire.

I would think that the new owner(s) will be hiring the new General Manager and not Wally.

I agree that with new owners Wally will retire and the new owner will hire a new GM, but I am saying that because it is looking like there may NOT be new owners and so, if Braley still owns the Lions in 2018 Wally should still retire.

[mountaincat]

And yet it might be an improvement on the present situation. Do we really know what kind of philosophy Mark W would have as HC? He is younger, no doubt more energetic, with his own ideas. Might Wally be ready to let go, something he has said is difficult for him to do? Might Wally, in view of all that has been happening, be willing to let a new HC truly take charge?

Wouldn't make one iota of difference. Buono will "mentor" Washington from the cherry picker. More of the same with the same skipper at the helm of the Titanic.

MW is one of WB's boys. he might not be on the cherry picker again but the self admitted control freak will be pulling strings behind the scenes somewhere until a new owner pries his meddling hands off this team for good. i wouldn't even be surprised if The Legend was kept on in some kind of advisory role by a new owner or ownership group who doesn't realize that something stinks in wallyville, and there needs to be a clean sweep of the rot that's set in, with no "transition" involving mr buono.

[Sir Purrcival]

Mark Washington may be a different coach under different conditions but he should go elsewhere to mentor methinks. Much of his player time was under Wally Buono, his coaching time has been under Wally Buono. If he wants to round out his resume, he should try and catch a job on another team somewhere. He needs a different view of things with a different vision guiding the bus. Maybe he will be a better coach as a result. It is crystal clear that his defensive mentoring has failed to produce any real positives. We are struggling badly on defence and even if that may not have much to do with Mark Washington as a coach, it is going to damage his reputation anyway.

Apparently Wally's philosophy of sending players off before their due date hasn't been applied to either himself or his coaching choices. Even if he was asked to stay in an advisory role, the best thing he could do for this team is say "No". His continued guidance of this team is going to result in greater trials for this team long term. A new regime is likely to have teething problems regardless but those might be even harder to deal with if by the time that happens, the fans base and interest in this team and product has been eroded to even lower levels.

[SammyGreene]

The only good news about the loses piling up and missing the playoffs is it diminishes Wally's reputation. I would have said at the start of the season without a doubt he would have a part in who the new GM and even head coach would be.
Not so sure now, although I would think the Waterboys Group is probably still pro-Wally.

My preference would be to see Geroy as GM. Don't care about his lack of experience. Let an immensely popular player from a much more recent era build and run the team under his vision. IMHO it's worth the gamble given the current perception of this franchise in the market on top of a poor season on the field.

The only thing is has he been under Wally's wing too long to think the same way as the current regime? That's my biggest concern with McElvoy now.

[The_Pauser]

The only good news about the loses piling up and missing the playoffs is it diminishes Wally's reputation. I would have said at the start of the season without a doubt he would have a part in who the new GM and even head coach would be.
Not so sure now, although I would think the Waterboys Group is probably still pro-Wally.

My preference would be to see Geroy as GM. Don't care about his lack of experience. Let an immensely popular player from a much more recent era build and run the team under his vision. IMHO it's worth the gamble given the current perception of this franchise in the market on top of a poor season on the field.

The only thing is has he been under Wally's wing too long to think the same way as the current regime? That's my biggest concern with McElvoy now.

So basically you want to go down the same path the Canucks went down with Linden? That could be disastrous if Geroy is as dumb as Linden. Not saying he is, and he at least has more front office experience than Linden had when he took the President of Hockey Ops job, but your rationale behind your suggestion is flawed.

I personally don't care who the GM is. I just want someone who knows how to build a good football team and can get the job done. Whether that's Geroy Simon, or Joe Blow, I couldn't care less.

[Toppy Vann]

It's a factor that a seller in declaring outstanding litigation but if this is the hangup I can't see anyone buying a team as this issue will not go away with a couple of lawsuits.

Every business is open to lawsuits. As such whoever owns the club in the future could be sued at any given time for any number of reasons. You're correct that the concussion issue won't go away. However from what I'm reading into this situation the courts dismissed Bruce's suit as being something for labour arbitration to rule over. Bruce's camp contends that players are independent contractors who would not be served by that process. If the Supreme Court upholds BC courts ruling then Bruce's suit is dead and with it likely the $200M class action suit given the precedent set in Bruce's case. If however SCOC decides to hear Bruce's case and he is successful it will be game on for the other case. If the CFL happened to lose both it could turn a $15M or $20M purchase price into a $35M or $40M bill.

The class action suit covers retired players going back to 1952 before BC even joined the league. If their case fails now taking thousands and thousands of players out of the mix it's hard to imagine the likes of another $200M suit hanging over the heads of the league and its teams anytime soon.

Good points.

Clearly lawyers love a situation where they can get an SCC ruling that opens the gates for more individual litigation for concussions/injuries, etc.

I've not familiar with the class action of players back to '52 and its arguments or merits but most attempted class actions fail in Canada as the defendant can readily show that they didn't handle these cases as a class (thus everyone in the class got the same lousy handling) but on their individual merits.

The CFL might not be taking a sufficient strategic, long term view of the head injury issue (nor are other pro leagues) to eliminate head shots entirely from the game. It won't help going back on the prior cases, but in future it'd be a better protection.

The arguments against this from the neanderthals is 'we may as well play flag football' versus what others see as issues that could lead to people not wanting to own football teams and as Malcolm Gladwell says is a "moral abomination" (I disagree with this btw).
https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/11/13/malco ... new-yorker


I look at this head issue from the four vital perspectives:

1. growth and health of football from early ages on up to the pros such that it doesn't become a despised sport like boxing kinda fell into;

2. prevention of lawsuits that make owning a team the last thing a rich owner will want to do;

3. loss prevention of valuable assets to unnecessary injuries from head shots and shoulder 'tackles' where players deliver massively hard hits like the Naaman Roosevelt legal hit that end the guy's season virtually and end the kind of great play the CFL had been seeing from him; and most importantly,

3. the health and well being of the athletes who play this game.

The former CFL player and SFU HC Rod Woodward who died with CTE and even stole money from his clients. Those of us who knew Rod find it unfathomable that he'd steal a t-shirt, let alone client money. His family describe his later years as something that I certainly never saw from a HC who was classy and a man of integrity. No one who knew him ever said - 'i always knew he was a bad guy' as he wasn't.

====

The strength of the current owner is his absolute commitment to not interfering in the team other than his oversight and approval role (something his health and distance has hindered). This overextended strength has led to the owner not wanting (so it seems) to see Wally's succession plan for HC and ensuring he developed his assistants. Sir Purcival suggests mentoring best done elsewhere - I agree as Wally from what i can recall hasn't developed HCs. In US football (college and pro) there's been Phd dissertations tracing Head Coaches from the likes of Bear Bryant etc. It'd be a short list for Wally.

While no one can question Dennis Skulsky's commitment to the local community and the team, it was a choice to replace Bobby Ackles that brought a skill and experience set to the role that completely missed the mark as to what this team needed at the top. Now he's part time (?) and I read recently that Wally said he's basically running it all by himself.

Internally there seems to be no President. Not sure of Chayka but clearly you want someone who is not just a pillar of the community as President but someone who can bring creativity to marketing and engagement with fans and sponsors - a huge task on limited dollars.

The problem with a football team is that there aren't highly experienced owners who call up and have them buy and come in with a blueprint for success.

Ottawa has to be model given what they've done so far.

[Sir Purrcival]

The only good news about the loses piling up and missing the playoffs is it diminishes Wally's reputation. I would have said at the start of the season without a doubt he would have a part in who the new GM and even head coach would be.
Not so sure now, although I would think the Waterboys Group is probably still pro-Wally.

My preference would be to see Geroy as GM. Don't care about his lack of experience. Let an immensely popular player from a much more recent era build and run the team under his vision. IMHO it's worth the gamble given the current perception of this franchise in the market on top of a poor season on the field.

The only thing is has he been under Wally's wing too long to think the same way as the current regime? That's my biggest concern with McElvoy now.

So basically you want to go down the same path the Canucks went down with Linden? That could be disastrous if Geroy is as dumb as Linden. Not saying he is, and he at least has more front office experience than Linden had when he took the President of Hockey Ops job, but your rationale behind your suggestion is flawed.

I personally don't care who the GM is. I just want someone who knows how to build a good football team and can get the job done. Whether that's Geroy Simon, or Joe Blow, I couldn't care less.

I'm not sure I'm wanting to go down that path either. Geroy hasn't even been a coach so I'm not sure why a GM position would be a good starting off point. I"m not sure who we could get but what about Scott Ackles? Not a player or a coach but has certainly been around football at management levels. Are there other coaches in the league that might be credible enough and looking to jump up the ranks or is there an experience former GM that maybe we might look to? What about Rick Campbell? The reason that his name comes up for me is because of Hugh Campbell. One of the most successful GM's of all time who might be willing to advise a fledgling GM from time to time. As a coach he also seems to have built himself a decent team in a short period of time and has been part of 3 Grey Cup Winners. Certainly enough to think about.

[Toppy Vann]

Check the end of Lowell Ulrich column for ownership discussion:

http://www.tsn.ca/williams-benching-add ... n-1.891174

[CardiacKid]

Check the end of Lowell Ulrich column for ownership discussion:

http://www.tsn.ca/williams-benching-add ... n-1.891174

The point Braley made in regards to interviewing replacements for Skulsky as president, I took as a deflection of the criticism that not enough is being done to address the leadership vacuum on the Operations side.

However, LU reveals most of these interviews took place LAST YEAR.

How long did it take the CFL to replace Orridge? The difference in the amount of time to hire a league commissioner versus a team president should not be chasm-like. And yet here we are, still waiting on a team president...never mind a sale.

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.tsn.ca/williams-benching-add ... n-1.891174

LIONS TALES: The TSN story this week in which owner David Braley suggested the sale of his team won’t be completed at least until the end of the year because of the pending concussion lawsuit before the Supreme Court of Canada brought by former receiver Arland Bruce has drawn a reaction. According to a source familiar with sale talks, Braley has discussed the circumstances surrounding the case with interested buyers, which the owner cited as an impediment. Braley also told TSN that interviews to find a president to replace Dennis Skulsky have occurred, a signal to some that he intends to remain in charge, however most of them took place last year. “Something is seriously wrong here,” the source said. Buono said he hasn’t been approached by Braley regarding the presidency and wouldn’t be interested either, stating he is not qualified. Buono is under contract as coach and general manager until Feb. 1 and as a consultant until August, pending Braley’s next move.

According to a source familiar with sale talks, Braley has discussed the circumstances surrounding the case with interested buyers, which the owner cited as an impediment.

Impediment. OK.

Braley also told TSN that interviews to find a president to replace Dennis Skulsky have occurred, a signal to some that he intends to remain in charge, however most of them took place last year.

Last year. OK. "Intends to remain in charge." Ughhh

“Something is seriously wrong here,” the source said.

That is what one would think, that something is seriously wrong. But does the source have something in mind that is unknown to the public? Just a suggestion but not stated? Ugghh

February 1st. August. That does not sound like a continuation through next year. But then there is that "lifetime" contract we have heard about.

On and on it goes ...