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Ackles had the right formula that led to the resurgence.
1. A smaller configuration that created a demand for season tickets to ensure a decent seat for every game. After a few lower bowl sellouts, upper deck sections were gradually opened especially for big games and this created a buzz in itself. 2. As mentioned many times in this thread, season tickets were considered good value and there was typically lots of swag that came with them. Throw in a very competitive/entertaining team and the season ticket based swelled to 24,000 after the ’06 cup win and the team averaged 35,000 a game in 2007. Back then, you could not buy a pair tickets between the goallines in the lower bowl as season ticket holders swallowed them all up.

Today, too large of seating inventory combined with ticket prices that have been raised substantially since the move back into BC Place adds up to a tough sell despite fielding a championship calibre team again.

I agree MikeAK, there is no way I see the Lions lowering ticket prices. If anything, based on Skulsky's guest host segment with the TEAM, they will consider shrinking the capacity, probably down to the 33,000 to 35,000 range.
The hope would be this would at least create some demand, especially for those poorly priced lower bowl corner sections which again had lots of empty seats last Saturday. As BCFAN has suggested, the number one priority for their should be ensuring the lower bowl is full for every game just for the atmosphere and the optics of it for television.

Don't you guys get it, the cost of BC place, and the lease itself they half to have raise prices.

Any people out there own there own businesses ?

dfootball wrote:Don't you guys get it, the cost of BC place, and the lease itself they half to have raise prices.

Any people out there own there own businesses ?

Prices were already on the upswing before they let the air of the BC Place.

It was not bob ackles that started the lower bowl , it was Brailey at the beginning of the 2001 season, ackles did not join the lions till the end of the 2002 season. And even then, they were getting barley 20,000 a game. It took ackles until half way through the 2004 season when they started selling out the lower bowl because of Casey Printers, taking over from Dave Dickinson for that reason only.

I remember the very first season game in 2005 there were barley 27,000.

Prices were already on the upswing before they let the air of the BC Place



No they were not I was a season ticket holder, they started getting more pricey the second year at Empire field because they were moving into knew BC place that year.

dfootball wrote:It was not bob ackles that started the lower bowl , it was Brailey at the beginning of the 2001 season, ackles did not join the lions till the end of the 2002 season. And even then, they were getting barley 20,000 a game. It took ackles until half way through the 2004 season when they started selling out the lower bowl because of Casey Printers, taking over from Dave Dickinson for that reason only.

I remember the very first season game in 2005 there were barley 27,000.

Ackles joined just before the beginning of the 2002 season and didn't make a whole lot of changes right off the bat. He mostly observed to see what was going wrong and what changes were necessary: he decided to get rid of Damon Allen and Adam Rita after our weak 30-3 playoff effort in Winnipeg (he was getting rid of Rita regardless of what happened in that WSF but that outcome made the decision easier for him).

You're right about the first game of 2005, it was 27,506. I have some more numbers to post in a moment.

SammyGreene wrote:Ackles had the right formula that led to the resurgence.
1. A smaller configuration that created a demand for season tickets to ensure a decent seat for every game. After a few lower bowl sellouts, upper deck sections were gradually opened especially for big games and this created a buzz in itself. 2. As mentioned many times in this thread, season tickets were considered good value and there was typically lots of swag that came with them. Throw in a very competitive/entertaining team and the season ticket based swelled to 24,000 after the ’06 cup win and the team averaged 35,000 a game in 2007. Back then, you could not buy a pair tickets between the goallines in the lower bowl as season ticket holders swallowed them all up.

I agree with the general thrust of your comments, but the "resurgence" wasn't even quite as great you remember. At no point during the Ackles era did we average 35k (unless perhaps you're counting playoff games). Reg season averages since 1994:

1994 ... 25,274 (GC: 55,097)
1995 ... 26,180
1996 ... 18,781
1997 ... 20,765
1998 ... 16,217
1999 ... 22,433 (WF: 28,238)
2000 ... 22,806
2001 ... 19,857
2002 ... 18,507
2003 ... 23,653
2004 ... 26,697 (WF: 55,527)
2005 ... 32,614 (WF: 37,337)
2006 ... 31,190 (WF: 50,084)
2007 ... 32,456 (WF: 54,712)
2008 ... 34,083
2009 ... 28,610
2010 ... 24,327 (Empire)
2011 ... 29,725 (5 Empire + 4 BCPII) (WF: 41,313, GC: 54,313)
2012 ... 29,375 (first five games)

If you didn't know it already, pretty easy to guess when Ackles died, huh?

dfootball wrote:Don't you guys get it, the cost of BC place, and the lease itself they half to have raise prices.

Any people out there own there own businesses ?

If they need to charge between $73 and $93 to sit between the goallines in the upper deck of a CFL game to cover the higher lease cost then they never should have agreed to it in the first place. Those same seats were $40 and $60 in 2009.

Also don't know how then the Whitecaps can announce their 2013 season tickets will be the cheapest of their three year existence.

sj-roc wrote:

SammyGreene wrote:Ackles had the right formula that led to the resurgence.
1. A smaller configuration that created a demand for season tickets to ensure a decent seat for every game. After a few lower bowl sellouts, upper deck sections were gradually opened especially for big games and this created a buzz in itself. 2. As mentioned many times in this thread, season tickets were considered good value and there was typically lots of swag that came with them. Throw in a very competitive/entertaining team and the season ticket based swelled to 24,000 after the ’06 cup win and the team averaged 35,000 a game in 2007. Back then, you could not buy a pair tickets between the goallines in the lower bowl as season ticket holders swallowed them all up.

I agree with the general thrust of your comments, but the "resurgence" wasn't even quite as great you remember. At no point during the Ackles era did we average 35k (unless perhaps you're counting playoff games). Reg season averages since 1994:

1994 ... 25,274 (GC: 55,097)
1995 ... 26,180
1996 ... 18,781
1997 ... 20,765
1998 ... 16,217
1999 ... 22,433 (WF: 28,238)
2000 ... 22,806
2001 ... 19,857
2002 ... 18,507
2003 ... 23,653
2004 ... 26,697 (WF: 55,527)
2005 ... 32,614 (WF: 37,337)
2006 ... 31,190 (WF: 50,084)
2007 ... 32,456 (WF: 54,712)
2008 ... 34,083
2009 ... 28,610
2010 ... 24,327 (Empire)
2011 ... 29,725 (5 Empire + 4 BCPII) (WF: 41,313, GC: 54,313)

If you didn't know it already, pretty easy to guess when Ackles died, huh?

Thanks for the numbers sj-roc. That was off the top of my head but it was the 2008 average that I thought was in the 35,000 range.

dfootball wrote:Don't you guys get it, the cost of BC place, and the lease itself they half to have raise prices.

Any people out there own there own businesses ?

That is definitely one of the reasons why the tickets have gone up, but that doesn't mean the team can't improve their pricing structure. They can keep the lower bowl prices the same since it appears to be quite full on most nights with a few patches in the corners that are empty. It's the upper deck that needs new pricing. When I was at the Montreal game, the upper deck was so empty. They aren't making any money from those seats up there when they are empty. I'd be okay with them keeping the upper deck prices the same for the first 10 rows since those are great seats no matter what section you are in. The nosebleeds can come down a bit.

SammyGreene wrote:Thanks for the numbers sj-roc. That was off the top of my head but it was the 2008 average that I thought was in the 35,000 range.

I posted those numbers to squelch some of the astonishment at our so-called paltry crowds. Right now, we're a 30-35k town in the best of circumstances, when every possible positive factor converges on game day. In most cases the game has to take on the veneer of an "event" to push the numbers any higher: playoff games, Grey Cups, the re-opening.

I started going to games regularly in July 1996, which is when I moved here. That's right, I moved here just in time to watch the Lengthy Era of Massive Suck (LEMS) unfold, after the relative stability of the brief (three year) Comrie era. Ever since then, I've attended every non-preseason game but one (which I was unavoidably out of town for in 1997), so with my vivid memories of the LEMS years, right now I don't see attendance to be quite as huge an issue as some folks (esp in the media at times) make it out to be. Could it be better? Sure. But it's not on the market to slavishly attend games out of some supposed moral or civic duty. It's on the team to provide the market with a convincing value proposition, and right now, that VP isn't up to the standard of the Ackles era.

That is definitely one of the reasons why the tickets have gone up, but that doesn't mean the team can't improve their pricing structure. They can keep the lower bowl prices the same since it appears to be quite full on most nights with a few patches in the corners that are empty. It's the upper deck that needs new pricing. When I was at the Montreal game, the upper deck was so empty. They aren't making any money from those seats up there when they are empty. I'd be okay with them keeping the upper deck prices the same for the first 10 rows since those are great seats no matter what section you are in. The nosebleeds can come down a bit.


Very good point here, i do remember when they only got 30,000 in the old bc place too, the upper deck looked so empty, unless you had 35,000 or above in the old bc place the upper deck looked like a morge, in the knew bc place it looks way more intimate because it does only hold 54,000 6,000 less than the old building, and getting around 32,000 and above looks half decent. i agree on the price structure they are going to have to adjust it for next year, i got a feeling they will, it will all be shorted out by next year.to late to do it this year.

sj-roc wrote:

SammyGreene wrote:Thanks for the numbers sj-roc. That was off the top of my head but it was the 2008 average that I thought was in the 35,000 range.

I posted those numbers to squelch some of the astonishment at our so-called paltry crowds. Right now, we're a 30-35k town in the best of circumstances, when every possible positive factor converges on game day. In most cases the game has to take on the veneer of an "event" to push the numbers any higher: playoff games, Grey Cups, the re-opening.

I started going to games regularly in July 1996, which is when I moved here. That's right, I moved here just in time to watch the Lengthy Era of Massive Suck (LEMS) unfold, after the relative stability of the brief (three year) Comrie era. Ever since then, I've attended every non-preseason game but one (which I was unavoidably out of town for in 1997), so with my vivid memories of the LEMS years, right now I don't see attendance to be quite as huge an issue as some folks (esp in the media at times) make it out to be. Could it be better? Sure. But it's not on the market to slavishly attend games out of some supposed moral or civic duty. It's on the team to provide the market with a convincing value proposition, and right now, that VP isn't up to the standard of the Ackles era.

Let's not forget the LEMS, as you put it, period was not a BC only phenomenen. Outside of perhaps Alberta it was the bleakest era for the entire league. I recall flying back from the 1996 Grey Cup in Hamilton thinking my Grey Cup streak would end at 14 because the one I just watched would be the last Grey Cup. I honestly wasn't sure the league would survive to play another 1997 season. In BC 1996 marked the brief ownership tenure of Nelson Skalbania. The instant it was announced he was taking over the team you could hear the footsteps of ticketholders fleeing the ship. 1996 was Year 1 after the US experiment. Baltimore moved to Montreal consistently playing before crowds of less than 10000. Ottawa would fold after 1996.

Hambone wrote:

sj-roc wrote:I started going to games regularly in July 1996, which is when I moved here. That's right, I moved here just in time to watch the Lengthy Era of Massive Suck (LEMS) unfold, after the relative stability of the brief (three year) Comrie era. Ever since then, I've attended every non-preseason game but one (which I was unavoidably out of town for in 1997), so with my vivid memories of the LEMS years, right now I don't see attendance to be quite as huge an issue as some folks (esp in the media at times) make it out to be. Could it be better? Sure. But it's not on the market to slavishly attend games out of some supposed moral or civic duty. It's on the team to provide the market with a convincing value proposition, and right now, that VP isn't up to the standard of the Ackles era.

Let's not forget the LEMS, as you put it, period was not a BC only phenomenen. Outside of perhaps Alberta it was the bleakest era for the entire league. I recall flying back from the 1996 Grey Cup in Hamilton thinking my Grey Cup streak would end at 14 because the one I just watched would be the last Grey Cup. I honestly wasn't sure the league would survive to play another 1997 season. In BC 1996 marked the brief ownership tenure of Nelson Skalbania. The instant it was announced he was taking over the team you could hear the footsteps of ticketholders fleeing the ship. 1996 was Year 1 after the US experiment. Baltimore moved to Montreal consistently playing before crowds of less than 10000. Ottawa would fold after 1996.

Good point, Hambone, it was a bleak era for the league as a whole; BC was a microcosm of it.

Say, wasn't 1996 the year the Lions papered the preseason game with free tickets for high school kids, many of whom proceeded to completely disrupt the game with constant field jumping and hanging from the goal posts and such? I was looking at the 1996 game-by-game attendance figures last night and saw that the lowest figure, 12,761 was for the 3rd home game, against Hamilton (I think that was the game where a fan blew a whistle right at the snap on one play, confused the players and earned himself an ejection from the BC Place, as if the team could afford to turn away anybody in those days). On the other hand, the preseason game was 21,021, and the home opener was 29,425 (likely another papered crowd).

I've always thought back to that — my unceremonious introduction to in-game CFL fandom — whenever I've heard attendance gripes in the last few years. I distinctly remember one game in 1996 where I was headed down Robson Street with every intention of buying a walkup ticket at the gate, before someone right out of the blue just GAVE me his ticket — in the premium section, lower deck, near midfield. I don't know what those seats cost at the time but that ticket would be worth almost $100 these days!

If you weren't there at the games in those days — and ipso facto, there are relatively few who were — you would have no idea what a funereal atmosphere BCP had in that LEMS era (put that one in there for L4E ). The Lions' 1996 season was practically a complete how-to guide on totally wrecking a football team. There was the poor schedule of games: up against summer fireworks, high profile concerts, the deciding game of the World Cup of Hockey, etc. The ill-conceived decision to include in the gameday program a full-page photo of Matt Dunigan's career-ending sack delivered by Reggie Carthon. And everything in between. The sheer volume of ineptitude was fascinating to behold.

sj-roc wrote: you would have no idea what a funereal atmosphere BCP had in that LEMS era (put that one in there for L4E ).

ICY, WHAT U DID THERE.