Breaking News... Printers cut!

[Rammer]

The magic that was Casey in 04 was never coming back under the restrictions that he felt he had to adjust to. His emotions when things are rolling are very constructive, when it isn't, he is a cancer. His maturity never really materialized other than the words he spoke about team, but with such disdain (now that can be seen as disdain to the adjustment, not disdain for the questions). Top that off with the frustrations of losing some games/turning over the ball and losing the starting position. When he finally got another chance, it just didn't happen with too much pressure to be the guy on himself. He was bound to fail, and when he made his first rushing first down in the Winnipeg game, that emotionally charged Casey Printers was back, way over the top and it reminded me right away of his Hamilton tenure.

Don't ever think that Casey didn't want to win, it really is the only way he can play with success, IMO. That may sound strange, but losses ate him up.

[pennw]

pennw - Those are serious claims you're making. The team quit when Printers entered the game? They lost confidence? I seriously refute that. The team got bit in the ass because they thought they had won. I had thought they won, YOU had thought they won. All teams play different when they think they've got a game won.

The bummber provoked the Lions, they lost their cool, lost a lot of yards and gave the bumbers a some life and a hell ya attitude, combine that with actually putting in a QB who could throw the ball and that changed everything. It happens all the time however not usually with as much drama.

Not serious claims , just stating my opinion , like so many others here . But I don't presume to read minds or pretend to be privvy to behind the scenes dialogue . Why don't you take similar issue with some of the other "serious claims " being posted here ? Or do you just choose to take issue with those that don't tow the party line here ?

[Lionheart]

I'm not sure what the party line is. You are alluding to the idea that players even on defense quit on the game. Those are the most serious claims I have read here yet, and would find the most disturbing if true but strongly feel they are not.

[Blitz]

Derrick Armstrong's comments (another thread) provide an interesting perspective.

Armstrong's comments that Printers did not have the full support of his teamates to begin the season ring true to me. Certainly Angus Reid's recent comments reflect that.

I don't believe Casey had a fresh start again here. The press and media, while writing some initial feel good stories last season, following his impressive return debut (without a training camp, with few practice reps, and obviously rusty), it was obvious from numerous articles this off-season and this season, that they also couldn't wait to pounce on him again.

I don't believe Chap was thrilled to have Printers back, based upon their old relationship in 2005, and Printers never looked comfortable this season. It seemed like he was so uptight and focused on trying to execute Chap's offence, he just didn't play with the abandon of last season and no doubt the injury didn't help. There were a few vets around from Printers first stint here that may have made it more difficult for him.

In Printers early games, he had no running attack and the offensive line was an experiment that constantly blew up. Playing on the injured knee also effected his escapability. Benching Printers for a quarterback in Lulay, who had played so poorly up to that point, showed the direction in which the Leos coaching staff were going. I have no doubt that it was Chap who would have wanted Lulay to become the starter. Printers likely pouted some, once he was benched for three games and the interception in Winnipeg, he probably realized had sealed his fate. It's likely why he lost it.

I will always see Printers second stint as a wasted opportunity that was mostly created by our Leos coaching staff. I'm also not surprised that a very few old vets went to Wally and wanted Printers gone. Those old vets won't be part of our long term future. Printers could have been, had the situation been handled right. We haven't handled the quarterback position here in B.C. right from Grey Cup '04.

Quarterbacks just seem to get worse here in B.C. the longer they play in Chap's offence. Everyone likes to say that Printers was a one year wonder but he played well in 2005, while injured, but not as well. Printers looked good in his return in 2009 but not as good in 2010, Buck slid, after his frist two seasons. Jarious has never looked like the same quarterback who led us to 9 victories in 2007. I see Chap as a quarterback killer. His offence not only leads to quarterback injuries from Dickenson to Printers to Pierce to Jackson to Lulay to Printers again. that makes our situation unique in B.C. We also constantly juggle the quarterback position and our coaching staff constantly lays the blame on this position, rather than where the blame should go. Chap's offence also leads to our quarterbacks becoming more tentative, robotic, as well as losing their natural instincts over time.

[pennw]

I'm not sure what the party line is. You are alluding to the idea that players even on defense quit on the game. Those are the most serious claims I have read here yet, and would find the most disturbing if true but strongly feel they are not.

Well apparently you got tunnel vision because there have been a lot of things said ,like what certain players opinions are , that were not from known public sources . My opinion that the team seemed to quit on Printers is hardly a "serious " claim as I'm not stating this as an official statement from the team or putting it forth as a certain players opinion .Should I go back and put in a " IMO " for you ?
Now what about the poster who posted a "the view through Geroy's eyes " post , you never noticed it right ? Or what Chap orders QB's to do , you never noticed those , right ? Or how certain players were in the Dickenson camp vs the Printers camp ( how older players on the end of their careers or already gone were conveniently attributed to the "Dickenson camp" , thereby taking away their credentials , mainly Angus Reid , of course ,where as important/current players were in the "Printers camp" )all with no proof . But you never noticed that either , right? I could scrutinize all those threads and bring up pages worth of serious claims , if I had nothing better to do , but maybe you get what I 'm getting at ?

[West Coast Blue Fan]

Ugh.....mountain<molehill

Its a forum. Blitz isn't quoting these players, he's merely speculating. Just like everyone does.

[pennw]

Ugh.....mountain<molehill

Its a forum. Blitz isn't quoting these players, he's merely speculating. Just like everyone does.

Okay fair enough , but then it should be okay to question those speculations just like everyone else too , and ask for proof when he states what any team member thinks . The way he presents it in his posts is as though it's known fact , when it's just his opinion .

[pennw]

pennw - Those are serious claims you're making. The team quit when Printers entered the game? They lost confidence? I seriously refute that. The team got bit in the ass because they thought they had won. I had thought they won, YOU had thought they won. All teams play different when they think they've got a game won.

The bummber provoked the Lions, they lost their cool, lost a lot of yards and gave the bumbers a some life and a hell ya attitude, combine that with actually putting in a QB who could throw the ball and that changed everything. It happens all the time however not usually with as much drama.

And BTW I agree with you they thought they had won already , the other stuff I was taking as a separate issue from just the game , mostly addressing lot's of the stuff being debated here . And supporting one poster who get's questioned because he didn't have a high enough of a post count to challenge a much loftier poster etc .
So ya I think the team , coaches and players thought they had it in the bag too ( just my opinion of course ) . But I also thought that when Printers went in , the team confidence just dropped like a rock too , at the same time , after he started going into panic mode that is . That is because suddenly they realized they needed first-downs late , because the Bombers were steam rolling back , and they had no confidence Casey could get those first-downs at crunch time . This is just my opinion of course and it don't mean I hate Printers either .

[Blitz]

We all watched the episode on the sidelines, when Casey Printers threw his helmet and initated the verbal argument with O'Neil Wilson. We've also been informed that Printers continued his behavior in the dressing room following the game.

I have no problem with Printers being released from the team, based upon this behavior. However, his release makes me ask the following questions.

1. As Toppy Van has emphasized...there was a fistfight beteen two players in our Leos dressing room, an altercation in which Paris Jackson's jaw wa broken. If altercations between players is a reason for the release of a player, then it's not happened in the past or recently, except for Printers. TThe decision was inconsistent with past practice.

2. If sideline altercations are a reason for a player release, we've seen Geroy Simon go at Buck Pierce on the sidelines and even go at Wally. Press comments folowing the game, indicate that Wally was neutral about Printers and Wilson arguing on the sidelies. It appears that the fact that it cocntinued in the dressing room was a factor.

3. While a higher standard is applied to a quarterback and Printers iniated the argument with Wilson, Wilson could have walked away. Instead he argued back with Printers and both went at it. Wilson, on the sidelines, even lightly pushed Printers with his hand. Wilson's behavior was not acceptable either.

4.. If the argument continued in the players dressing room, how did that inforation get to the coaching staff. It asks the question that a player or certain players may have leaked the information to the coaching staff or gone to the coaching staff with the information. It also makes one wonder if a couple of vets suggested he be released, which the press has alluded to.

5. Derrick Armstrong's comments, while perhaps not wise (a player leaving a team is never wise to cut his bridges) do not break the Code. The Code exists for players who are playing togehter or have played together. Angus Reid's comments break the Code. Why did Angus choose to comment in the way he did to the press?

6. Armstrong's comments regarding Casey Printers not having the entire support of his teamates from the start of the season, make one ask the question of whether Printers really got the fresh start he needed here this time.

7. Why did Casey Printers look so magical at times last season, without the benefit of a training camp and with few practice reps, and being out of football for so long..and yet not look like the same quarterback, even from the start of this season?

7. Why did we decide to write off Printers as our future a number of games ago. The decision to bench Printers and start Lulay makes one ask the question as to why we decided to go in the direction of Lulay? Printers had only turned 29. He was playing with a knee injury. He had thrown 10 touchdowns to only 4 interceptions and had the highest quarterback efficiency rating on the team, up to that point. Lulay had struggled, with 4 touchdowns to 8 interceptions and had fumbled just as often. Printers fumbles warrented him being pulled for a time in that second game, though we were leading 9-0 because he had been warned following his previous game to look after the football.However, Printers had looked after the footballl very well, last season and this, exept for that short period.

Printers had not caused any problems up to that point. He never made any public comments regarding losing the starters position or created any controversy. He likely sulked a little, seemingly being benched for the remainder of the season.. We had made Printers the face of the franchise this season. His quarterback efficiency, while playing behind a constantly chaning offensive line and without a running attack was in Ricky Ray and Darion Durrant territory. Why did we decide to sit Printers for the rest of the season at that point? In essence, our Leos had essentially decided that Printers was not our future, at that juncture, seeiingly based upon a short stretch of fumblities that was out of character. The Winnipeg incident only hastened the release of Printers. He likekly would have been gone at season end.

8. Casey Printers being on a team rsults in a lot of attention being paid to him, by the press and meda as well as fans? Does the attention paid to Printers result in resentment by a few vet teammates?

However, Printers is gone and it doesn't look good that he'll ever see the CFL again. I like the way Travis Lulay has handled the situation. I'm more than ready to support him and the ever loyal Jarious Jackson as our quarterbacs of the future right now. The one good thing Printers being gone does. It puts the heat more squarely on Buono and Chapdelaine, where it belongs. Casey Printers is not responsible for this dismal season nor did he blow the Winnipeg game. That was done more by other individuals that Printers and Angus Reid was on the sidelines with leg cramps, when we needed him in overtime. There is enough responsbility to go around. The focus now will be more concentrated on other players as well as our coaches, without Printers to kick around.

This is an exciting Leo defensive unit and our special teams are looking good. It's still our offence that is the question mark, no matter who plays quarterback. Hopefully, against Edmonton, our offence can get untracked. They've only won 4 games this season and their defense is suspect. We're playing at home. if our offence is going to get untracked, this is a game we should do it.

[pennw]

We all watched the episode on the sidelines, when Casey Printers threw his helmet and initated the verbal argument with O'Neil Wilson. We've also been informed that Printers continued his behavior in the dressing room following the game.

I have no problem with Printers being released from the team, based upon this behavior. However, his release makes me ask the following questions.

1. As Toppy Van has emphasized...there was a fistfight beteen two players in our Leos dressing room, an altercation in which Paris Jackson's jaw wa broken. If altercations between players is a reason for the release of a player, then it's not happened in the past or recently, except for Printers. TThe decision was inconsistent with past practice.

2. If sideline altercations are a reason for a player release, we've seen Geroy Simon go at Buck Pierce on the sidelines and even go at Wally. Press comments folowing the game, indicate that Wally was neutral about Printers and Wilson arguing on the sidelies. It appears that the fact that it cocntinued in the dressing room was a factor.

3. While a higher standard is applied to a quarterback and Printers iniated the argument with Wilson, Wilson could have walked away. Instead he argued back with Printers and both went at it. Wilson, on the sidelines, even lightly pushed Printers with his hand. Wilson's behavior was not acceptable either.

4.. If the argument continued in the players dressing room, how did that inforation get to the coaching staff. It asks the question that a player or certain players may have leaked the information to the coaching staff or gone to the coaching staff with the information. It also makes one wonder if a couple of vets suggested he be released, which the press has alluded to.

5. Derrick Armstrong's comments, while perhaps not wise (a player leaving a team is never wise to cut his bridges) do not break the Code. The Code exists for players who are playing togehter or have played together. Angus Reid's comments break the Code. Why did Angus choose to comment in the way he did to the press?

6. Armstrong's comments regarding Casey Printers not having the entire support of his teamates from the start of the season, make one ask the question of whether Printers really got the fresh start he needed here this time.

7. Why did Casey Printers look so magical at times last season, without the benefit of a training camp and with few practice reps, and being out of football for so long..and yet not look like the same quarterback, even from the start of this season?

7. Why did we decide to write off Printers as our future a number of games ago. The decision to bench Printers and start Lulay makes one ask the question as to why we decided to go in the direction of Lulay? Printers had only turned 29. He was playing with a knee injury. He had thrown 10 touchdowns to only 4 interceptions and had the highest quarterback efficiency rating on the team, up to that point. Lulay had struggled, with 4 touchdowns to 8 interceptions and had fumbled just as often. Printers fumbles warrented him being pulled for a time in that second game, though we were leading 9-0 because he had been warned following his previous game to look after the football.However, Printers had looked after the footballl very well, last season and this, exept for that short period.

Printers had not caused any problems up to that point. He never made any public comments regarding losing the starters position or created any controversy. He likely sulked a little, seemingly being benched for the remainder of the season.. We had made Printers the face of the franchise this season. His quarterback efficiency, while playing behind a constantly chaning offensive line and without a running attack was in Ricky Ray and Darion Durrant territory. Why did we decide to sit Printers for the rest of the season at that point? In essence, our Leos had essentially decided that Printers was not our future, at that juncture, seeiingly based upon a short stretch of fumblities that was out of character. The Winnipeg incident only hastened the release of Printers. He likekly would have been gone at season end.

8. Casey Printers being on a team rsults in a lot of attention being paid to him, by the press and meda as well as fans? Does the attention paid to Printers result in resentment by a few vet teammates?

However, Printers is gone and it doesn't look good that he'll ever see the CFL again. I like the way Travis Lulay has handled the situation. I'm more than ready to support him and the ever loyal Jarious Jackson as our quarterbacs of the future right now. The one good thing Printers being gone does. It puts the heat more squarely on Buono and Chapdelaine, where it belongs. Casey Printers is not responsible for this dismal season nor did he blow the Winnipeg game. That was done more by other individuals that Printers and Angus Reid was on the sidelines with leg cramps, when we needed him in overtime. There is enough responsbility to go around. The focus now will be more concentrated on other players as well as our coaches, without Printers to kick around.

This is an exciting Leo defensive unit and our special teams are looking good. It's still our offence that is the question mark, no matter who plays quarterback. Hopefully, against Edmonton, our offence can get untracked. They've only won 4 games this season and their defense is suspect. We're playing at home. if our offence is going to get untracked, this is a game we should do it.

Some valid and good questions Blitz. As for the why's , IMO , each players conduct needs to be evaluated strictly on it's own merit and situation . Printers is judged according to his circumstances and how it effects the team as is Messam's or Mitchell's . On Mitchell , just setting aside everything else , his single act with out precedent of Printers being cut , would you cut Mitchel for that one violation ? That is how Mitchell should be judged and so should all the rest . Printers being cut has nothing to do with Mitchel's performance and vice-versa . Who says Wally condones the behavior of Mitchel or Messam just because they were not cut ? The fact is we don't know how Wally dealt with those players . Those were singular acts and I hardly believe the team is divided over either of those two , so this is really a red-herring argument being put forth by some here who are upset in Printers being cut . Likewise for the rest of the players who's behavior has come into question . Where I do agree with many others here is that team discipline is a problem , as is complacency - like thinking they had the game won .
If Printers did not have the support of a significant part of the team , then that is a problem and you can't fire half the team over one player , especially if that one player's performance has been sub-par in the first place . I think had he shot the lights out , he would have won them over .
On your point 7 , good question why did he look so good last season yet flop in 2010 ? Same O/C last season when he looked go you know .
I'm glad you support Lulay , because he is a starter , the comparisons being made regarding him have been ridicules , the guy is just barely beyond rookie status , yet guys here are comparing his ratings as though he was the other vet in the picture . He's got a big upward learning curve and development still to come , that is why at this point he's being made the starter . At this point , he is future why not get behind him? Never mind slagging him , many who are doing so should know better .

[Blitz]

I agree that each player 'incident' needs to be judged, in part, on their background behavior, prior to any 'error in judgement' they make. I don't agree with your assertion that Casey entering the game was the reason for the following

• Caused Sanchez to blow up and have us receive two penalties due his spouting off
• Made Kalif Mitchell punch a Winnipeg player in the groin, giving Winnipeg great field position, after we had put Winnipeg out of field goal range in overtime with a sack.
• Imitated Yonus Davis to jump into the Winnipeg airplane and receive a taunting penalty (and now he’s *beeotch* about his contract today, after doing something so foolhardy that he incited the Winnipeg team In their comeback)
• Ensured that Phillips and Marsh had an argument when both missed a play on the football, leading to a Winnipeg touchdown
• Led to our special teams having a brain lapse, leading to a punt return that allowed Winnipeg to try to tie the game in the last seconds of regulation time.
•Triggered Angus Reid to leave the game and not play in overtime due to leg cramps.
•Caused our offensive line to be penalized for procedure and holding during overtime.
However, a team can have a let down when they have a huge lead and they also see the backup quarterback inserted. It tells them the HC thinks the game is in the bag, in some respects.

However, outside of the events of the Winnipeg game (Printers argueing with Wilson on the sidelines and carrying it over into the private sanctity of the players locker room) there doesn't appear to be anything that Printers had done, in terms of innappropriate behavior, prior to this incident.

I don't believe there were a significant number of players who did not support Printers. There, however, could have been a few influential players who didn't. There are just too many new faces on our Leos team this season. On offence the only vet players returning were Simon (who supported Printers), Sherko, Angus Reid, and Paris Jackson.

Anyway, as you emphasize, its Lulay time and we may even see Jarious again this season. However, based upon Jarious' age, we're going to need to develop a second and third string quarterback for the future or maybe even a future starter if Lulay falters or suffers a serious injury. One thing we've learned is that quarterbacks have a higher injury rate in the Buono/Chap era here, than other teams have experienced, and quarerback depth is critical on our Leos squad.

[hwgill]

Honestly you have to be a rather new Lions fan not to be able to see the 04 version of CP and his success. At the time it was more due to him improvising and that caused a rift between himself and Chapdelaine as he took over the OC position officially late in the 04 season. The CFL QB is responsible for more offence than any other position player by such a wide margin that it only makes sense to create your offence around the QB's style. If you aren't then go get a QB to that does fit your limited abilities as an OC. As far as egos and me attitude goes, put Geroy Simon in the same boat. It is part of the territory of being an elite athlete, just ask Doug Flutie.

I guess you can say I'm a newer fan to the Lions (4yrs) but I am aware of Casey's successes in the 04 season. BUT I was just focusing on this season And as far as egos and attitudes go, don't ever put Geroy in the same boat as Casey. My gawd, Geroy is just a very confident and highly respected player. He's a motivator and is passionate about football and his team. Casey was just all about himself. For argument sake, let's just say Geroy did have an ego and attitude. Geroy sends out positive vibes with his whereas Casey's ego and attitude sent out negative ones. Isn't Casey's track record of bouncing from team to team evident of that? NO ONE LIKES HIM!!!! Geroy is still here and has been for years! Let's be honest...at the end of their football careers I would remember Geroy being more of an "elite athlete" more than I would Casey. But of course that's just my opinion!

All I can say is this, if CP was the root fo the problem, than the Lions are going to win their next four games and they're all going to be blowouts.

If they're not, and it unfolds as I expect (we win tonight, and lose the rest), than CP was NOT the problem, and Buono/Chap ARE.

[The_Pauser]

One thing I've heard about the situation that I haven't yet read on here, is that after the Hamilton game Casey had a blow up in the lockerroom. Casey basically blamed his offensive line for not recovering his fumbles. While I do believe he has every right to harp on his offensive line for the crap protection he's received this year, if this statement is indeed true it really knocks Printers down a notch in terms of leadership qualities.

I personally think (my own speculation) that Casey's blowup was the product of built up frustrations from Day 1 this year. I think Casey really tried his best to buy into Chaps system. I think Casey was willing to accept what Chap wanted him to do, and he was really working hard to try to execute the gameplan the way Chap was running it, even despite the fact that it did not take advantage of any of Casey's skills. I think Casey was very frustrated with how he literally got no protection on 95% of the downs. I think he was probably frustrated with his receivers inabilities to get separation from the DB's on a lot of plays, and a lot of dropped balls that have happened over the course of the season. I do think Casey was even frustrated with himself when he had that bout with fumblitis. He probably saw that Winnipeg game as his last chance to redeem himself and recreate some of that magic, and as soon as that pass got intercepted he saw the writing on the wall.

If we go into next season with relatively the same coaching staff...especially with both Wally Buono at head coach and Jacques Chapdelaine at offensive coordinator, I will seriously consider dropping my season tickets.

[B.C.FAN]

All I can say is this, if CP was the root fo the problem, than the Lions are going to win their next four games and they're all going to be blowouts.

If they're not, and it unfolds as I expect (we win tonight, and lose the rest), than CP was NOT the problem, and Buono/Chap ARE.

Those are two extreme positions. How about something in the middle: The success of the Lions for the rest of the season depends on playing disciplined football and minimizing turnovers and defensive breakdowns. No one individual or group of individuals is solely responsible for winning or losing.

The Lions have been playing well and winning consistently in the past six weeks apart from some mental lapses and undisciplined play. They just need to sharpen up in those areas.

[pennw]

I agree that each player 'incident' needs to be judged, in part, on their background behavior, prior to any 'error in judgement' they make. I don't agree with your assertion that Casey entering the game was the reason for the following

• Caused Sanchez to blow up and have us receive two penalties due his spouting off
• Made Kalif Mitchell punch a Winnipeg player in the groin, giving Winnipeg great field position, after we had put Winnipeg out of field goal range in overtime with a sack.
• Imitated Yonus Davis to jump into the Winnipeg airplane and receive a taunting penalty (and now he’s *beeotch* about his contract today, after doing something so foolhardy that he incited the Winnipeg team In their comeback)
• Ensured that Phillips and Marsh had an argument when both missed a play on the football, leading to a Winnipeg touchdown
• Led to our special teams having a brain lapse, leading to a punt return that allowed Winnipeg to try to tie the game in the last seconds of regulation time.
•Triggered Angus Reid to leave the game and not play in overtime due to leg cramps.
•Caused our offensive line to be penalized for procedure and holding during overtime.
However, a team can have a let down when they have a huge lead and they also see the backup quarterback inserted. It tells them the HC thinks the game is in the bag, in some respects.

However, outside of the events of the Winnipeg game (Printers argueing with Wilson on the sidelines and carrying it over into the private sanctity of the players locker room) there doesn't appear to be anything that Printers had done, in terms of innappropriate behavior, prior to this incident.

I don't believe there were a significant number of players who did not support Printers. There, however, could have been a few influential players who didn't. There are just too many new faces on our Leos team this season. On offence the only vet players returning were Simon (who supported Printers), Sherko, Angus Reid, and Paris Jackson.

Anyway, as you emphasize, its Lulay time and we may even see Jarious again this season. However, based upon Jarious' age, we're going to need to develop a second and third string quarterback for the future or maybe even a future starter if Lulay falters or suffers a serious injury. One thing we've learned is that quarterbacks have a higher injury rate in the Buono/Chap era here, than other teams have experienced, and quarerback depth is critical on our Leos squad.

Well actually I don't think Printers caused any of those other players to do those things either . I just stated that each player needs to judged independently of what all the rest did , and that judge happens to be WB . If I left that impression , it was not what I meant .