Ticket Prices / Lions' Marketing

[Hambone]

Not a big fan of afternoon games. Good for Vancouver Island fans who can come over and watch a game and returning the same day.

Still makes for a very long day unless you live in Victoria or Nanaimo. Unless you want to do a mad panic from Horseshoe Bay to maybe be in the stadium for the kickoff and a mad panic back again as the final gun goes off you're looking at the 8:30am boat over and 7:30 boat home. Live in Campbell River and you have to be on the road around 6:30am and don't get home until around 11:00pm. That's a very long 16+ hour day for a 3 hour game if one is trying to take a younger family to it. Not much different than driving in from say Williams Lake or Vernon for the game and returning the same day.

From Duke Point it's a 7:45am ferry. Last ferry from Tsawassen back to Duke Point leaves at 5:45pm now which could be tight if there are any delays in getting from the stadium into your vehicle and out of the downtown area. Not so bad from Victoria with 10:00am option coming over and 7:00pm going back. Realistically down to a 12 hour day there.

[JohnHenry]

A 1 p.m. kickoff on a Saturday is a ridiculous time to start a game, especially with an opponent from the East that hasn't been able to win a night game at B.C. Place in the past 10 tries. Vancouver has never been a Saturday aftternoon sports town, nor is it an afternoon sports town at all. Saturday nights have always drawn the biggest crowds. The Lions have sold out the loyal fan base to cater to TV demands for Friday night games and early games in Eastern TV markets, then they have the nerve to announce an SD blackout in the local market, further cutting off access to the team for casual fans. As a season ticket holder and loyal fan for 50 years, I'm insulted by this year's schedule. I haven't had one game that I could commute to from the Fraser Valley without undue stress. I've been trying to give away two of my season tickets for Saturday's game but haven't yet found any takers. The start time is too inconvenient.

Yep, a Saturday 1:00 pm kickoff in the summer is economic suicide. You don't have to be a marketing major or scientist to realize that. Not only will the walk-up probably be weak, many thousands of ticket holders will be no-shows. Many young people have chores or have to work on Saturday during the day. For others, something will "come up" they have to do and can't attend the game. A 4:00 pm start is better, evenings the best. Sunday is a different story but 4:00 pm probably works better for most people.

The fact is that the Lions management has lost touch with the marketplace. There is no personal touch to work the media like Bobby Ackles used to do. Wally seems to have faded into the woodwork. After losing 30% of their seasons ticket base in 2009 (after losing their most exciting players on offence (S. Logan) and defence (C. Wake) to be replaced with M. Mallett and R. Foley who were gone the next season), those fans haven't been replaced. The Lions need to re-establish a presence in the minds of the sporting fans in Vancouver. Easier said than done, but it requires some personality...and probably not Wally's or Skulsky's.

[Hambone]

Yep, a Saturday 1:00 pm kickoff in the summer is economic suicide. You don't have to be a marketing major or scientist to realize that. Not only will the walk-up probably be weak, many thousands of ticket holders will be no-shows. Many young people have chores or have to work on Saturday during the day. For others, something will "come up" they have to do and can't attend the game. A 4:00 pm start is better, evenings the best. Sunday is a different story but 4:00 pm probably works better for most people.

The fact is that the Lions management has lost touch with the marketplace. There is no personal touch to work the media like Bobby Ackles used to do. Wally seems to have faded into the woodwork. After losing 30% of their seasons ticket base in 2009 (after losing their most exciting players on offence (S. Logan) and defence (C. Wake) to be replaced with M. Mallett and R. Foley who were gone the next season), those fans haven't been replaced. The Lions need to re-establish a presence in the minds of the sporting fans in Vancouver. Easier said than done, but it requires some personality...and probably not Wally's or Skulsky's.

I don't know if they have lost touch. You can do all the surveys you want re: starting times but the only real way to find out is to schedule them and see if people want them or not. Sometimes you find out that afternoon games offer no more clicks of the turnstiles than do evening games...........or maybe you find out that they do. Saskatchewan wasn't much of a litmus test because Rider games always draw very well. I think these games may be more network driven than at the request of the Lions. It has to be hugely more beneficial to TSN to have their two biggest eastern markets seeing Argo and Alouette road games at 4:00pm and 7:00pm instead of 10:00pm. It would be interesting to see what the national numbers are for these games versus what they'd be for a late night game. The start times have to also be beneficial to the Argos and Als within their own markets. Theoretically better viewership numbers should translate down the road into a better future TV contract and more money for the Lions as their share.

[Hambone]

There is no personal touch to work the media like Bobby Ackles used to do. Wally seems to have faded into the woodwork. After losing 30% of their seasons ticket base in 2009 (after losing their most exciting players on offence (S. Logan) and defence (C. Wake) to be replaced with M. Mallett and R. Foley who were gone the next season), those fans haven't been replaced. The Lions need to re-establish a presence in the minds of the sporting fans in Vancouver. Easier said than done, but it requires some personality...and probably not Wally's or Skulsky's.

You know I always keep hearing folks waxing poetically about Ackles and what he did and how current management has lost touch etc. But I haven't heard anybody give examples of how things are different. What specifically is it that is different?

[Rammer]

There is no personal touch to work the media like Bobby Ackles used to do. Wally seems to have faded into the woodwork. After losing 30% of their seasons ticket base in 2009 (after losing their most exciting players on offence (S. Logan) and defence (C. Wake) to be replaced with M. Mallett and R. Foley who were gone the next season), those fans haven't been replaced. The Lions need to re-establish a presence in the minds of the sporting fans in Vancouver. Easier said than done, but it requires some personality...and probably not Wally's or Skulsky's.

You know I always keep hearing folks waxing poetically about Ackles and what he did and how current management has lost touch etc. But I haven't heard anybody give examples of how things are different. What specifically is it that is different?

ST holder goodie swag and ticket pricing, come to mind, Now both of those may have gone downhill with or without Ackles, but the timing seems to be coincidental with his passing.

[SammyGreene]

Again more innovative marketing ideas from the Whitecaps, this time to begin their 2013 season ticket push. Prices at the lowest they have been in three years as well as student season tickets. Lions need to take note as I'm sure they are finalizing their 2013 prices right about now.

Vancouver Whitecaps FC are preparing to launch a special offer for fans on 2013 Season Tickets. To thank fans for their continued support, those who purchase Season Tickets from Saturday, September 22 to Wednesday, October 3 will receive a special signing bonus of 12 per cent off. Fans can take advantage of this offer and renew or purchase their Season Tickets online at whitecapsfc.com or by phone at 604.669.9283.

With the special offer, this year’s Season Tickets, starting at just $307 plus applicable taxes and processing fees, are the lowest prices offered by Whitecaps FC since the club joined Major League Soccer in 2011. Fans who purchase during the 12 day window save approximately 35 per cent over single match buyers.

Along with Season Tickets, the club has also added 9 Packs and Student Season Tickets to their ticket offering for 2013.

“To show our fans, the 12th man, our appreciation for their continued support, we are offering a 12 per cent signing bonus – 12 per cent off – from September 22 to October 3 for 2013 season tickets,” said John Furlong, Whitecaps FC executive chair. “We’ve also expanded our ticket offering for 2013 to ensure that everyone can participate in the season ahead. Season Tickets, 9 Packs, and Student Season Tickets offer all fans significant savings over single match tickets, and guarantee that you won’t miss a moment of the action. We look forward to seeing you in the stands throughout the rest of 2012, and in 2013.”

[B.C.FAN]

The Whitecaps and Lions are both having trouble attracting fans to B.C. Place. That says something about the market in general. The Whitecaps are at least using pricing strategies to fight the decline at the gate.

I did notice a lot more youg kids with their parents at Saturday's 1 p.m. game, but that was more than offset by a decline in the young male demographic that comes out in force for Saturday night games. If the Lions are going to let the league push them around with Friday night and Saturday afternoon games, they'll suffer at the gate, regardless of pricing strategies.

[MikeAK]

Wishful thinking there, Sammy. After listening to Skulsky on the radio it's painfully clear he doesn't believe ticket prices are an issue. The fact that the Lions get zero revenue from concessions only hurts the chances of lower ticket prices. They would rather charge as much as they can to those few then fill the house. Skulsky is doing a terrible job and the team will only suffer for it. Lower attendance is going to continue until we get somebody in office who knows that most people don't clear 100+K a year. My biggest fear is that this team isn't catching the interest of new hardcore fans because most young people can't afford to go and most families aren't even looking at Lions games anymore. It's just too damn expensive for them. Obviously we won't know the true effect this will have until years down the road but I fear this team is losing so many potential fans that won't ever get a chance to fall in love with the Lions at an early age... "Losing" probably isn't even the right word because in order to lose something you need to "have" it first.

[Rammer]

Wishful thinking there, Sammy. After listening to Skulsky on the radio it's painfully clear he doesn't believe ticket prices are an issue. The fact that the Lions get zero revenue from concessions only hurts the chances of lower ticket prices. They would rather charge as much as they can to those few then fill the house. Skulsky is doing a terrible job and the team will only suffer for it. Lower attendance is going to continue until we get somebody in office who knows that most people don't clear 100+K a year. My biggest fear is that this team isn't catching the interest of new hardcore fans because most young people can't afford to go and most families aren't even looking at Lions games anymore. It's just too damn expensive for them. Obviously we won't know the true effect this will have until years down the road but I fear this team is losing so many potential fans that won't ever get a chance to fall in love with the Lions at an early age... "Losing" probably isn't even the right word because in order to lose something you need to "have" it first.

Oh I think that we will know and probably do already, we only need to look to TO to see how you can lose a market. Unless you can get more people in to fill those seats, ST's won't be necessary, as people pick and choose there games at the price the singles are currently. Build the ST base by making those tickets discounted, especially in the UD and corners, and heck you may even begin to get people worried about getting good singles for games, thus more ST interest.

[MikeAK]

Wishful thinking there, Sammy. After listening to Skulsky on the radio it's painfully clear he doesn't believe ticket prices are an issue. The fact that the Lions get zero revenue from concessions only hurts the chances of lower ticket prices. They would rather charge as much as they can to those few then fill the house. Skulsky is doing a terrible job and the team will only suffer for it. Lower attendance is going to continue until we get somebody in office who knows that most people don't clear 100+K a year. My biggest fear is that this team isn't catching the interest of new hardcore fans because most young people can't afford to go and most families aren't even looking at Lions games anymore. It's just too damn expensive for them. Obviously we won't know the true effect this will have until years down the road but I fear this team is losing so many potential fans that won't ever get a chance to fall in love with the Lions at an early age... "Losing" probably isn't even the right word because in order to lose something you need to "have" it first.

Oh I think that we will know and probably do already, we only need to look to TO to see how you can lose a market. Unless you can get more people in to fill those seats, ST's won't be necessary, as people pick and choose there games at the price the singles are currently. Build the ST base by making those tickets discounted, especially in the UD and corners, and heck you may even begin to get people worried about getting good singles for games, thus more ST interest.

No argument here. A crazy person told me once that the best kind of advertisement anyone could have is to have people in your business. Others see this and want to know what all the excitement is about or just want to be apart of it. The Lions need to get that buzz back and the only way to do it is to have people inside the stadium and spreading the word. People want to be apart of the social scene. If Skulsky can figure that out along with how to get his head on straight then the Lions could be the #2 ticket in town.

[dfootball]

I agree also except, i think getting 30,000 a game is not that bad, yes they should lower there pricicng, but to say that they are not doing a good job is a little far fetched, when the lions dip back down to getting 22,000 a game again ( back in the mid 90's) then you can say they are not doing there jobs, but as long as they are winning the average attendance will be 30,000 a game, Aslo we have to keep in mind that bc place is know 54,000 for a full house, not 60,000 so 30,000 in there does not look that bad,

[MikeAK]

I agree also except, i think getting 30,000 a game is not that bad, yes they should lower there pricicng, but to say that they are not doing a good job is a little far fetched, when the lions dip back down to getting 22,000 a game again ( back in the mid 90's) then you can say they are not doing there jobs, but as long as they are winning the average attendance will be 30,000 a game, Aslo we have to keep in mind that bc place is know 54,000 for a full house, not 60,000 so 30,000 in there does not look that bad,

Just the simple fact that we are only drawing 28-30K a game when we have arguably the best team in the CFL and maybe even the best CFL team this province has seen in a while speaks volumes in my opinion. God forbid we have a .500 football team or worse. That 22K could be a real possibility if we did. Vancouver is very much a "what have you done for me lately" town and if this team wasn't so competitive I doubt people would be willing to pay these ridiculous prices.

Depends what you mean by "30K doesn't look that bad". I was there on Saturday and in my opinion that 28K didn't look very good at all.

[dfootball]

We also were the in 2004 the best team averring 24,000 a game, 2005 the best team averging 30,000, same with the 2006 team, and 2007 , so what makes you think it would be any different this year, also you have to remember, that in 2009, we hit 30,000 only once, and that was when we were getting killed on home turf, and we can not for get empire field that was a disaster, so we are slowly getting are fan base back, it will take time.

[MikeAK]

This difference between now and those years you mention are ticket prices. You can't keep sticking it to your fans and expect them to take it with a smile. In 2007 I was at the western final with my cousin and my ticket was $50. I was dead center row B in the 200's. That's at least a $100 ticket now. It's no longer the working man's league that made the CFL so loved and popular.

[dfootball]

I agree, but inflation is a part of life and sport , and the knew BC place lease probably costs the lions double what they were paying in 2009. I own a business and you have to count in those things or you will not survive. The only way they could get back to those reasonable prices, is if they do not rent out the upper deck like the whitecaps do, that is why the whitecaps did not open the upper deck when Beckham came , was because there was not a big enough demand to pay the extra rent on the upper deck.