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Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:58 pm
by Blitz
TheLionKing wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:02 pm I expect a major overhaul in the roster in the off season. I suspect that a lot of the players were signed to a one year contract to give Buono an opportunity to go out as champion.
No question about it.

I wonder how that decison making is going to work for us or rather not work for us in the future.

In other words what will the cost be, in terms of our future Leos success, based upon Hervey having a priority of pulling out all the stops for Buono to leave the game on a winnning note.

What will the attempt to enhance Buono's legacy, in his final season cost us, in terms of the team we can now build for 2019 and beyond?

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:01 pm
by DanoT
Blitz wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:58 pm
TheLionKing wrote: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:02 pm I expect a major overhaul in the roster in the off season. I suspect that a lot of the players were signed to a one year contract to give Buono an opportunity to go out as champion.
No question about it.

I wonder how that decison making is going to work for us or rather not work for us in the future.

In other words what will the cost be, in terms of our future Leos success, based upon Hervey having a priority of pulling out all the stops for Buono to leave the game on a winnning note.

What will the attempt to enhance Buono's legacy, in his final season cost us, in terms of the team we can now build for 2019 and beyond?
There is no real cost to the 2019 team due to building a team to win now with Wally in 2018 other than the need to kinda start from scratch by re-signing 34 free agents. And it is easier to re-sign your own FAs than FAs from other teams (unless they are ex Esks).

The expiring CBA is the source of a lot of expiring contracts creating a lot of FAs for most teams, so nothing to due with Wally.

Lions don't have a lot of high draft picks for 2019 but that is offset by very good NAT depth on O line and D line and a couple of very good NAT LBs.

A new HC will likely have some of his own guys that he wants to bring in so this is a source of roster turnover that has nothing to do with building a team for Wally in 2018.

On balance, imo Ed's reputation for being a straight shooter no BS guy, record for assembling a competitive roster and a strong core of Lions players will help him in assembling a team for 2019.

Much of what is listed above should make the Lions the CFL's most desirable landing place for any new prospective HC.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:22 am
by Blitz
When Wally won the Grey Cup in 2011, after two 8-10 seasons and a 1-6 start to the 2011 season, and then retired, I thought 'smart' move.

But when Wally decided to return to the sidelines in 2016, I thought it was a 'dum move' on his part, even though I also thought no one could be the Head Coach under him due to his overcontrolling and undermining.
But Wally had decided no one had the ability to bring another Grey Cup to our Leos like him.
His comment about the difficulty of filling the shoes of a 'legend' supported the notion of his very high opinion of himself.

What I liked least about his 'legend' comment was how difficult he had made it for Benevedes and Tedford to 'fill his shoes'.
If you are a self professed 'legend' as well as being referred to as such, you don't go up on a cherry picker at practices as the GM and undermine your Head Coaches.
We missed the playoffs last season and Wally would not retire on that note.

So he stayed on another season, while hiring Ed Hervey to get the job done as GM that he knew he couldn't do, while getting Ed to ask him to return for another season as Head Coach, while holding the title of Vice-President, so he could also be Ed's boss.
Only in Wally World would that situation even be considered, let alone happen. It was another 'down the rabbit hole' scenario.
Wally made it clear this season that he had returned to the sidelines for the opportunity to win another Grey Cup. It was all about inflating his ego and enhancing his legacy.

Ed Hervey brought in the players to give Wally that shot. No question to me about that. But our offence stunk the joint out most of the season with Jarious new RPO themed offence,
They scapegoated Jennings for it early and often, with Jarious saying he was essentially not smart enough to run the offence and was thrown under the bus again, after the road loss to Hamilton, his miracle finish the week before, and his two previous wins before that, thrown in the dust bin.
Jonathan Jennings would finish the season with better stats than Travis Lulay in most categories, including passing efficiency and quarterback efficiency. Those stats included pass percentage and interception rate.

Travis Lulay could not make the offence work even as well as Jennings, although both had similar quarterback efficiencies.

Lulay, who is well known for being a) a smart quarterback b) a quarterback who is excellent at reading defenses and c) a quarterback who gets the football out quickly off a first read with accuracy could not make the offence work.
But instead of retooling the offence or adapting it or getting rid of it, our Leos coaching staff made sure the public impression was that Jennings was to blame for the passing attack or lack thereof or Jeremiah Johnson or Chris Rainey was to blame for the weak running attack.
But Lulay nor Sutton could get it done either. In our last two contests of the regular season, we got beaten badly in Saskatchewan, in a game which had implications for the regular season standings and we got our butts kicked by Calgary at home in our last game.

Do you believe in karma? Sometimes I do? Do you believe that the Football Gods ensure that 'deservingness' needs to be earned? Sometimes I do. I certainly did on Sunday in Hamilton.
It was almost as if the Football Gods determined that Wally did not deserve the destiny he saw for himself and that sports columnists as Ed Willes saw for him either.
On a cold November afternoon, in Hamilton, even though we would have lost the game anyway, the Football Gods added more misery to the equation.

The Wally Buono final season was anything other than envisioned by those who wanted it to be a final Buono ego show. The Wally Farewell Tour was a disaster, as he went 2-7 in the regular season. Wally trotted out at half time on Wally Buono night, with the score 25-0.

In Hamilton we were down 28-0 at half time. Mark Washington's defense, which had given up 25 points and 32 points in his two previous playoff games, gave up 28 first half points.

Hamilton scored on three of its first four possessions of the game. It was 44-0 after three quarters.
It was the worst playoff loss in Leo history, surpassing our loss to Montreal 56-18 in 2009.
We lost that playoff game by 32 points but the loss to Hamilton by 40 points was a horror show of Hamilton wide open receivers on defense and fumbles, interceptions, failed third down gambles and a Pick 6 on offence.

Did our players deserve such a humiliating defeat? I didn't think so.
But if anyone deserved this defeat it was Buono, after going to the press to scapegoat players, yelling at Lulay twice on the sidelines this season, and refusing to put a mirror up to our coaching and schemes.
Nothing changed on offende and our return game, when it needed to change this season.
Jarious was just as rigid as Buono too. He blamed Jennings at the start of the season and after the Hamilton loss and he said it was not his scheme that was the problem, but rather that Saskatchewan and Calgary had more to play for in our last two games.
Wally stuck with his 'up the gut' runs on second and short, all season, no matter how many times they failed.

But this playoff game was supposed to show us all the Wally Way was the best way and we had just not been patient enough. Wally would pound Sutton while Lulay would throw high possession style passes to keep our offence on the field while our defense held the fort.

Buono would also win the field possession game by running his punt returns up the gut and all would turn out well in Leo Land. We just had to believe that 'the Legend' would take us to the Promised Land.
It seemed as if the Football Gods decided otherwise. Wally had not done it the 'right' way, the virtuous way.

He hadn't earned it by the way he handled things this season such as the way he had treated some of his players and deflected and blamed, rather than man up, be accountable, and make the necessary changes.
Rather than a confidence combined with an attitude of continuing to improve and adapt as a football coach, there was a conceit, an arrogance, a condescension, and an aura of superiority when it came to Buono's approach this season.


It was as if Buono decided that he deserved to to go out with another Grey Cup victory because the Legend had returned, that was his fate to do so.
It was if the Football Gods decided that Buono's 'deservingness' deserved a much different ending.

Buono's final comments, in his press conference after the game in Hamilton highlighted why our Leos season ended so horribly.

Buono's last comment was:
“Life gives you lessons. I hope they (the players) learn something from this lesson.”
The word ‘they' said everything.
Lessons were to be learned for everyone else but Buono. He never seemed to think that he had lessons to learn too.
If he had, our Leos would have been much more successful the past two seasons and we would not have been blown out in this playoff game.

Leo fans and Leo players paid a heavy price for one man's attitude.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:50 am
by JohnnyMusso
According to Ed Willis, very soon David Braley will soon put up the For Sale sign for the BC Lions. That is a must and Lions need to be sold in the off season. The apathy around the team is too high and Lions needs ownership that will be front and centre, not far away as if they don't exist.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:43 am
by globespanner
48 Points against an all star defense is a shocking inditment of the BC coaching staff and the game plan in all three phases

Four first team all-stars Lee, Foster, Orange and Coleman, as well as 4 more 2nd team all-stars in Lemon, Willis Rose and Lokombo and we let them post a near 50 burger on us.

On 3rd Down Nation a Hamilton player was quoted as saying June Jones had the purrfect Game Plan for BC defense. He knew what they were going to do ob on every play.

A new broom sweeps clean. I think Hervey is out shopping right now, I would bet on at least 30 roster changes and a complete new coaching staff without a single carryover.

Also further changes to Operations staff like McEvoy and Smon may also be in the cards

For too long BC has come up small in BIG games. Time for a clear eyed ruthless evaluation and house cleaning.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:09 am
by B.C.FAN
globespanner wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:43 am 48 Points against an all star defense is a shocking inditment of the BC coaching staff and the game plan in all three phases

Four first team all-stars Lee, Foster, Orange and Coleman, as well as 4 more 2nd team all-stars in Lemon, Willis Rose and Lokombo and we let them post a near 50 burger on us.

On 3rd Down Nation a Hamilton player was quoted as saying June Jones had the purrfect Game Plan for BC defense. He knew what they were going to do ob on every play.

A new broom sweeps clean. I think Hervey is out shopping right now, I would bet on at least 30 roster changes and a complete new coaching staff without a single carryover.

Also further changes to Operations staff like McEvoy and Smon may also be in the cards

For too long BC has come up small in BIG games. Time for a clear eyed ruthless evaluation and house cleaning.
I've seen several references to Hamilton scoring 48 points against B.C.'s defence. That's incorrect. Hamilton scored 31 points off turnovers by B.C.'s offence and two points off a conceded safety when the B.C. offence failed to move the ball inside its own 10 yard line. The Ticats scored only 18 points on drives that started in their own end of the field, including just 15 points on drives that didn't start with a B.C. turnover.

You can't fault the defence for Lulay's pick-6 or the bungled snap on the Hamilton 1-yard-line that ended with Hamilton first and goal at the B.C. 1-yard-line. That's 14 points directly given up by the B.C. offence. Hamilton scored another 14 points on drives that started after B.C. turnovers in scoring territory at the B.C. 41 and 42 yard lines.

I agree that June Jones had an excellent game plan against B.C.'s defence, especially in the first half, using perfectly executed screen passes to counter B.C.'s blitz, attacking B.C.'s best DB, T.J. Lee in man coverage and isolating Jordan Herdman in man coverage against a running back on a wheel route in the end zone. The Lions brought a lot of blitzes but they had little success in pressuring Masoli, who either got the ball off early or bought time with his feet and found open receivers downfield.

There is always enough blame to go around after a blowout loss but I would put most of it on the B.C. offence for commiting six turnovers that led to 31 Hamilton points. The defence didn't do much to help but the game was given away by the B.C. offence.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:46 pm
by CardiacKid
There might not be the purge folks are expecting if Hervey's statements in the article below are accurate...

https://theprovince.com/sports/football ... off-season

He says not to expect a massive overhaul of the roster but he will be aggressive in free agency. Myself, I hope that is the approach he does take for 2019. The roster has already undergone some very significant changes from 2017 but still resulted in playoff disappointment. A few substantial changes in the coaching brain-trust will be appreciated I am sure; especially when you consider the horses on the ground were changed but the byline stayed the same.

There is good talent on the team. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:08 pm
by DanoT
CardiacKid wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:46 pm There might not be the purge folks are expecting if Hervey's statements in the article below are accurate...

https://theprovince.com/sports/football ... off-season

He says not to expect a massive overhaul of the roster but he will be aggressive in free agency. Myself, I hope that is the approach he does take for 2019. The roster has already undergone some very significant changes from 2017 but still resulted in playoff disappointment. A few substantial changes in the coaching brain-trust will be appreciated I am sure; especially when you consider the horses on the ground were changed but the byline stayed the same.

There is good talent on the team. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
^^^agree 100%. The Lions had better personnel on the field in most situations than the TiCats but in football coaching and game planning is more important than personnel and the Eastern semi final proved it. In no other sport do you game plan for a week and then during a game, stop play for coaching input. Wally and his coaching staff in the last half dozen years have a suspect regular season record and an atrocious playoff record of not even competing let alone having any chance of winning. :bang:

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:34 pm
by Toppy Vann
The key is a new HC and a GM able to enact his plan.

I don't see a new HC not keeping some coaches around whether it's a Jarius in a new role or even OC with a HC with a good philosophy. I think Jackson's a good coach and had he better leadership in the x and o and OFF philosophy, he'd be a success. I don't see Khari Jones failing quickly if the current HC stays in MTL. He had some decent wrinkles likely brought in by Sherman.

Not sure why there is dislike of the Aquilini ownership. You might not like all that's gone on at the Canucks but all owners will take the helm on some issues - that's private ownership for you.

Why Wally says it has to be sold reflects the fact that he spent last year pretty much alone after Skulsky abandoned him. That takes a toll.

I don't see a highly successful coaching tree from Wally - as guys like Hufnagel have far better leadership skills as a HC than he does. What Wally does have is stability, no drama, no insane crazy moves.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:58 pm
by Blitz
globespanner wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:43 am 48 Points against an all star defense is a shocking inditment of the BC coaching staff and the game plan in all three phases

Four first team all-stars Lee, Foster, Orange and Coleman, as well as 4 more 2nd team all-stars in Lemon, Willis Rose and Lokombo and we let them post a near 50 burger on us.

On 3rd Down Nation a Hamilton player was quoted as saying June Jones had the purrfect Game Plan for BC defense. He knew what they were going to do ob on every play.

A new broom sweeps clean. I think Hervey is out shopping right now, I would bet on at least 30 roster changes and a complete new coaching staff without a single carryover.

Also further changes to Operations staff like McEvoy and Smon may also be in the cards

For too long BC has come up small in BIG games. Time for a clear eyed ruthless evaluation and house cleaning.
Couldn't agree more globespanner and the following excerpt from 3 Down Nation elaborates on your comment that the Tiger Cats had an excellent game plan.

We've were so badly outcoached in this playoff game and the last playoff game against Calgary in 2016 (32 half time lead for Calgary) that is embarrassing.

Here is the excerpt from 3 Down Nation
But, in opposing coach Wally Buono’s final game (see page S6 for that story), the Ticat coaching staff might just have been the most impactful stars of the giddy afternoon at Tim Hortons Field.

Defensive coach Jerry Glanville’s schemes were impeccable and kept B.C. starting quarterback Travis Lulay under duress, guessing – usually incorrectly – for his entire tenure, which ended when he was replaced by Jonathon Jennings late in the third quarter.

Glanville also had to quickly respond to losing two of his starting defensive backs: corner Jumal Rolle was sliced at, but not into, his Achilles tendon by an errant spike during warmup and halfback Josh Johnson went down during the game.

Jones and his offensive staff devised some technical wrinkles which bought Masoli a lot of time to complete each of his first 10 passes, and 14-of-19 overall for three touchdowns, two to Luke Tasker another to Sean Thomas Erlington.

“It goes a long way when you know your coaches are confident with what they’re calling and you know it’s going to work, ” said Ticat offensive tackle Ryker Mathews.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:08 am
by Blitz
I'm hoping (and anticipating) that our next Head Coach will be someone who is more knowledgeable and sophisticated regarding football strategy.

Under Buono, our Leos usually played hard but we were too often outcoached in important games.

A lot of fans thought we had turned this season around in the second half. Then we lost our final three games by a combined score of 109-33.

One thing we know is that its going to be someone who has previously coached in the CFL. Hervey said so this week.
“It’s going to be a CFL guy,” he said. “I believe that we cut our teeth in this league for these opportunities. I feel like there are guys in this league who have committed to this league and deserve the opportunity to grow in this league.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:41 am
by DanoT
Wally's final season, actually, his final half dozen seasons were not what could be called a success, however his hiring and passing control of the Lions to Ed is the best parting act that he could have accomplished.

Ed is one of the top GMs in the CFL and coming on board in 2018 has given Ed a close up look at the Wally way of doing things. Ed can now cherry pick what he likes or doesn't like including having the benefit of seeing Wally's assistants up close.

Rumour has it that Mark Washington is not a HC candidate and so it would appear that this time Wally will not have input into the hiring of the new HC or assistants.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:46 am
by Toppy Vann
Blitz wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:58 pm
globespanner wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:43 am 48 Points against an all star defense is a shocking inditment of the BC coaching staff and the game plan in all three phases

Four first team all-stars Lee, Foster, Orange and Coleman, as well as 4 more 2nd team all-stars in Lemon, Willis Rose and Lokombo and we let them post a near 50 burger on us.

On 3rd Down Nation a Hamilton player was quoted as saying June Jones had the purrfect Game Plan for BC defense. He knew what they were going to do ob on every play.

A new broom sweeps clean. I think Hervey is out shopping right now, I would bet on at least 30 roster changes and a complete new coaching staff without a single carryover.

Also further changes to Operations staff like McEvoy and Smon may also be in the cards

For too long BC has come up small in BIG games. Time for a clear eyed ruthless evaluation and house cleaning.
Couldn't agree more globespanner and the following excerpt from 3 Down Nation elaborates on your comment that the Tiger Cats had an excellent game plan.

We've were so badly outcoached in this playoff game and the last playoff game against Calgary in 2016 (32 half time lead for Calgary) that is embarrassing.

Here is the excerpt from 3 Down Nation
But, in opposing coach Wally Buono’s final game (see page S6 for that story), the Ticat coaching staff might just have been the most impactful stars of the giddy afternoon at Tim Hortons Field.

Defensive coach Jerry Glanville’s schemes were impeccable and kept B.C. starting quarterback Travis Lulay under duress, guessing – usually incorrectly – for his entire tenure, which ended when he was replaced by Jonathon Jennings late in the third quarter.

Glanville also had to quickly respond to losing two of his starting defensive backs: corner Jumal Rolle was sliced at, but not into, his Achilles tendon by an errant spike during warmup and halfback Josh Johnson went down during the game.

Jones and his offensive staff devised some technical wrinkles which bought Masoli a lot of time to complete each of his first 10 passes, and 14-of-19 overall for three touchdowns, two to Luke Tasker another to Sean Thomas Erlington.

“It goes a long way when you know your coaches are confident with what they’re calling and you know it’s going to work, ” said Ticat offensive tackle Ryker Mathews.
How quickly this changed with Trevor Harris and the RBs offence ripping them apart with the QB getting a CFL record for the most TD passes in playoffs - 6.

Clearly the Ticats came out sputtering and flat relative to the well rested Redblacks with Masoli's passes missing targets while Trevor Harris hit his.

It just might be that these Ticats came to Ottawa too cocky while their opponent came out on fire.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:56 pm
by Hambone
Toppy Vann wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:46 am It just might be that these Ticats came to Ottawa too cocky while their opponent came out on fire.

Considering the Ticats lost all 3 regular season meetings versus Ottawa this year and are 2-9 versus the REDBLACKS over the past 4 years they had no reason to be cocky.

Re: When Will the Purge Begin

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:24 pm
by Toppy Vann
Hambone wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:56 pm
Toppy Vann wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:46 am It just might be that these Ticats came to Ottawa too cocky while their opponent came out on fire.

Considering the Ticats lost all 3 regular season meetings versus Ottawa this year and are 2-9 versus the REDBLACKS over the past 4 years they had no reason to be cocky.
LOL but after the beatdown of BC - something was not right as all of them looked poor. Granted Ottawa was on fire.