Lions 26 Stamps 7 Stats and Post Game Comments

[notahomer]

IMO, had the game had more needed, wouldn't have Hufnagel challenged Lulays long pass. I think Moore had it but whomever the reciever was its didn't look like he survived contact? Anybody watching on TV see it differently? I watched the replay in the stadium and thought "he's gotta challenge that" but he didn't.

Hufnagel wanted to challenge Moore's catch. He took out his challenge flag, stood beside an official on the sideline and looked up at the big screen, hoping for another replay. When one wasn't shown, he put the flag away. I think a coach upstairs watching the TV replay told him that it was a good catch. It looked like Moore took about three steps with the ball before losing possession after he was tackled.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm just never sure when you add in the surviving contact with the ground. Three steps with the ball before being tackled should have done it though.

[Toppy Vann]

The Offensive line which has been much maligned this season is perhaps playing their best all season. The BC quarterbacks had all day to throw the football. Dean Valli said in the post game that they changed their schemes couple of games ago.

I think we have to take that dominance with a certain grain of salt. Once they lost the 2 DTs it looked like the Stamps had to spend the rest of the game with only 3 DL and little rotation. Junior Turner at 264# seemed to be task with playing nose tackle in that 3 man front. D'Aguilar seemed to rotate in a bit but struggled to get up after more than a couple of plays. I don't think he was exactly top of health. So it was very much and undersized and outmanned group Calgary had left to field for the second half.

I totally concur. Difficult to really assess the Lions as both teams played as if it was an exhibition game.

We will only really know if this was like a preseason game if they come out flat in Regina.

> It does appear that new players in the mix and the fixing of the OL/run game has really given this Lion team some life. I didn't get a sense that either Buck or Lulay came into that game just to do preseason motions and get out unscathed and just hope they could do well. My sense is that Lulay to some extent has fed off the energy and leadership of Buck and Logan and the changes and he looked like he was game ready mentally including his run.

This just seems to be a more exciting team and I give some credit to the GM for seeing he needed to change the mix with player personnel if they were to salvage this season. He was right although to outside observers it might not have appeared as a need.

> Benevides says Buck is fine.

> The taking out of Cornish should have been fine as that other back is also a pretty darn good player in his own right and they were fine when Cornish was not playing that one game earlier this season. It was interesting to see Tate struggle though and I thought they left him out there a long time with Bo available.

> The Riders (I didn't see the game) and the Stamps playing their last games with no meaning in the standings were bound to be unpredictable and misfits in some ways as the Stamps are pretty cocky and sure of themselves as they know as do we they've looked like the cream of the CFL and if they keep playing as they have I can see a GC for them even if Ricky Ray is playing well.

Now with their injuries on DEF and the upsurge in the Lions, I really think if either Buck or Lulay can play decently, the Lions have a chance to get to the WDF and win.

> The falling off of the BC crowds at home is not a good thing for pressure on ticket prices for next year as the fans clearly weren't excited by what the Lions were doing until this latest re-tooling.


>>It is too bad the Lions entered this seasons with blocking too complex for the talent and an offensive philosophy that has to be altered as the season progresses versus constantly and consistently building on and improving with variations on their set offensive themes - which most teams like the Stamps do.
Only BC has to undergo significant mid season corrections it seems. The gun to the head as MLF says.

[TheLionKing]

Only BC has to undergo significant mid season corrections it seems. The gun to the head as MLF says.

Seems like the only time meaningful changes are made is when they are forced to. In this case, Buono calling out the coaches lit a fire under their asses. I just hope it continues and not the same old, same old.

[DanoT]

On the Team 1040 post game show Moj and the guys all said that they thought LuLay would start the WSF. I saw things differently: Lulay threw 4 passes but if he plays in the WSF he will need to throw 25-30 passes, so I saw a QB who was testing his arm, not a guy getting game ready after being off so long.

Buck will start and if Lulay has a very good practice week he might be #2 QB.

[QB Club 63]

All day long today I was telling people that the Lions had a new quarterback, a guy named Buck LuMarco

Not one of those people knew where I picked up that idea. How many of you, my fellow Lionbackers, can recall the QB named J.J. Barnagel?

The year was 1981. The Saskatoon Roughies had turned to "Papa" Joe Faragalli as Head Coach after Ron Lancaster had led the team to consecutive 2-14 seasons. Faragalli went into the season with a pair of war horses at the quarterback position, and he deployed them with an uncanny knack.

Joe Barnes had been drafted by the Chicago Bears at running back (13th round), but when offered an opportunity to play QB he headed off to Montreal in 1976 to back up the venerable Sonny Wade. After 5 seasons season with the Alouettes, he was traded to the Riders before moving on to Toronto, where he won a Grey Cup in 1983, then he spent some time with Calgary before returning to Toronto for his final season in 1986.

John Hufnagel had been drafted by the Denver Broncos (14th round) and spent 3 seasons in Mile High City. He joined the Stampeders in 1976 and played 4 seasons there. 4 seasons in Saskatchewan (80-83) were followed up by 3 years with Winnipeg (84-86). He was a player-coach in 1987 when he returned to the Riders. He won his only Grey Cup as a player with the Bombers in 84.

The '81 Riders regained a measure of respectability by finishing the season at 9-7, but despite the best efforts of Papa Joe and his QB tandem, they still missed the playoffs. Someone came up with the name J. J. Barnagel when asked to name the Riders most effective "player".

[South Pender]

Only BC has to undergo significant mid season corrections it seems. The gun to the head as MLF says.

Seems like the only time meaningful changes are made is when they are forced to. In this case, Buono calling out the coaches lit a fire under their asses. I just hope it continues and not the same old, same old.

Well, another perspective on all of this is that the 2013 Lions' management and coaches were willing and able to make significant changes, by bringing in a couple of key additions and altering their schemes. With many teams, the coaches can't figure out (a) that changes are needed (seeing all of the failure as on the players) and (b) how to change the schemes to be a more effective team and just go on playing poorly until the end of the season (cf., Edmonton, Winnipeg, 2013) or they're fired. As I've said before, any and all professional coaches have a "gun to their head," particularly when their team is losing, but not all are motivated or clever enough to make the necessary changes to turn things around. It's not always the coaches' fault that mid-season corrections have to be made; injuries often dictate this, along with players playing below what was expected of them. The fact of a mid-season change, therefore, is not necessarily a sign of a defective team or coaching staff, but may, in fact, be the sign of a good one.

I think that it's inherently difficult for football coaches, stuck with the players they have and the inevitable injuries to key players, always to be able to tell at what point to change the overall scheme. They might truly believe that the scheme is sound, and that their task is to teach the players they happen to have to execute it better, working around injuries that hadn't, of course, been anticipated. In fact, there may be strong evidence to support this position, and, at a certain point, it might seem crazy to give up on a scheme when the coach feels that it is close to being executed very well. The risk in such a situation would be to have to start over again with no guarantee that a new scheme will work better with the current players (along with, of course, the inevitable chorus of criticism that the coach was a dope for introducing a new, bad scheme). So, I don't fault a coach for continuing to try to make what seems like an optimal scheme work. I think that, in the present case, the addition of Logan (and good on Wally for getting him) made a change of scheme feasible and likely to improve production. So good on Chapdelaine too for taking what he was given and making something better out of the Lions' offense.

[Toppy Vann]

South Pender - nice perspective but check the Lions home game stats for the final two of the year PLUS the loss of a home play off date - all benchmarks the football side of the organization have missed at a time when rising costs are putting pressure on ticket prices for fans in a seat driven league.

24K for Esks followed by 27K for Stamps (following Buck and Logan bringing some excitement back) and the reemergence of a running game.

Same old Lions story - run game hard. Dorazio blocking scheme too challenging - we've heard it all before.

Valli and others in 2011 called out the scheme as too many passes and teams pinning their ears back and coming hard at them. Media too. Same this season and Wally finally lit the fire.

It's a business and the product on the field combined with media and fan reviews showed the Lions what they thought of it - they stayed home in significant numbers and watched on TV.

[South Pender]

South Pender - nice perspective but check the Lions home game stats for the final two of the year PLUS the loss of a home play off date - all benchmarks the football side of the organization have missed at a time when rising costs are putting pressure on ticket prices for fans in a seat driven league.

24K for Esks followed by 27K for Stamps (following Buck and Logan bringing some excitement back) and the reemergence of a running game.

Same old Lions story - run game hard. Dorazio blocking scheme too challenging - we've heard it all before.

Valli and others in 2011 called out the scheme as too many passes and teams pinning their ears back and coming hard at them. Media too. Same this season and Wally finally lit the fire.

It's a business and the product on the field combined with media and fan reviews showed the Lions what they thought of it - they stayed home in significant numbers and watched on TV.

Toppy, I'm not concerned at this point about the lost revenue, but rather the team's chances moving forward. Sure, I certainly know that it's a business, but most of us on Lionbackers are interested in the play of the team and the intricacies involved with this. Wally and Skulsky can worry about the dollars, and this might motivate them to bring in some topnotch players for 2014. I'm not sure about the "same old story" part of your post. Sure, lots of folks on this forum see it that way, but, in my opinion, every season is unique, and a lot of what is blamed on "same old, same old" is really the result of some unique injuries that made changes necessary, but, at the same time, very difficult. I don't think I'd cite something Dean Valli said in 2011. A better player wouldn't be complaining about the opponents' defenses "coming hard at them"; he'd be moving those guys out. That has been the problem this year, as far as I'm concerned: sub-standard O-line play that isn't Dorazio's fault. Valli, for one, is just simply not good enough to play effectively in the CFL.

[Upper Bowl]

Those attendance totals still have to be pretty disappointing for a team that finished with a record of 8-1 at home. The Lions have been such a different animal (no pun intended) at B.C. Place than they are on the road. But I guess many casual fans saw them lose bad in Calgary and Regina and responded as they saw fit. Fair enough, and obviously the lack of playoff implications was a huge factor.

Merchandise sales may have softened the financial blow of the smaller crowds, at least slightly. Everyone got 20% off Friday night (at last year's home finale only seasons ticket holders did, while everyone else got 10%) and the merch stands were completely swarming.

A few other late thoughts on the game:

Absolutely love the discipline the Lions showed. Meaningless game or not, ZERO penalties is an impressive stat, and the Leos garnered the fewest flags in the league this season. I'd hope Benevides gets his due for that stat.

Cam Chism is still a work in progress, but I'm encouraged by what I'm seeing from him. He looked more comfortable and responded quicker to the ball Friday night.

I just hope Sol is good enough to be a factor on Sunday. His game is so predicated on that quick burst, he just isn't the same without it.

Arceneaux seemed to tweak his hammy, but was still able to fight through it for a big completion in the fourth. He must be used to playing with that injury by now.

Everything has pretty much been said about Buck, Travis, Harris and the running game. I hope these last two games eased the frustration Andrew had been feeling, and discourages any possible ideas he MAY have had about eventually flying the coop.

Loved that the Lions kept pushing the ball downfield, while still running it so well, as if to tell the Riders, "you'll have to prepare for everything we got!"
Let's hope they remember to pack it all with them on the plane later this week!

[JohnHenry]

All day long today I was telling people that the Lions had a new quarterback, a guy named Buck LuMarco

Not one of those people knew where I picked up that idea. How many of you, my fellow Lionbackers, can recall the QB named J.J. Barnagel?

The year was 1981. The Saskatoon Roughies had turned to "Papa" Joe Faragalli as Head Coach after Ron Lancaster had led the team to consecutive 2-14 seasons. Faragalli went into the season with a pair of war horses at the quarterback position, and he deployed them with an uncanny knack.

Joe Barnes had been drafted by the Chicago Bears at running back (13th round), but when offered an opportunity to play QB he headed off to Montreal in 1976 to back up the venerable Sonny Wade. After 5 seasons season with the Alouettes, he was traded to the Riders before moving on to Toronto, where he won a Grey Cup in 1983, then he spent some time with Calgary before returning to Toronto for his final season in 1986.

John Hufnagel had been drafted by the Denver Broncos (14th round) and spent 3 seasons in Mile High City. He joined the Stampeders in 1976 and played 4 seasons there. 4 seasons in Saskatchewan (80-83) were followed up by 3 years with Winnipeg (84-86). He was a player-coach in 1987 when he returned to the Riders. He won his only Grey Cup as a player with the Bombers in 84.

The '81 Riders regained a measure of respectability by finishing the season at 9-7, but despite the best efforts of Papa Joe and his QB tandem, they still missed the playoffs. Someone came up with the name J. J. Barnagel when asked to name the Riders most effective "player".

Thanks for the retrospective, QBC 63! I remember JJ Barnagle and several other effective QB tandems in the CFL. The Lions had a good combination one year with McManus, Austin and K. Jones, I believe.

All 3 of our QB's will likely have to contribute if the Lions are going to make it to the Grey Cup this season. It is well within their grasp...or perhaps Buck LuMarco's .

[TheLionKing]

I don't recall the Lions going deep as much as they did on Friday since the days of Casey Printers.

[B.C.FAN]

I don't recall the Lions going deep as much as they did on Friday since the days of Casey Printers.

Calgary likes to blitz and play press man coverage, and the Lions like to respond by throwing deep, especially if they isolate one of their top receivers on Calgary DB Brandon Smith. The Lions also used draws, screens and quick hitters with success against the Calgary blitz in this game.

The Stamps often fool opponents with their zone blitz, and they did that to Pierce on the first offensive series, bringing safety Eric Fraser up to the line and dropping LB Deron Mayo into his spot. Pierce didn't see him and Mayo made an easy INT. The Stamps ran that coverage several time in the game but the Lions weren't fooled again.

[David]

Welcome, louharris75. Great handle btw....Lou Harris and Monroe Eley formed a formidable backfield in '74. They were both 1,000 yard rushers! (I'll have to tell the story one day of how the Lions got off to an 8-4 start, and the main reason they ended that season 8-8. You won't believe it!).

This year we finished the season 11-7 - the same record as the Argos and, coincidentally, nearly the exact same points for/against: 504-461 for BC....507-458 for Toronto. By any measure the Argos had a fine season, yet our Leos are held to a very high standard by the fan base. I believe the common perception among those that follow the Leos (fans and media) is that is was an "off" year. The entertainment value suffered. In no way was this better exemplified than the Rider home game on October 4. The special intro, gun metal jersies, dimming of the lights, 37,312 in attendance.....then we were systematically dismantled by a much hungrier Rider team.

Yes, there were times this season in which we fired on all cylinders. Yet there were also too many blow-out losses and sluggish starts....."2 and outs" and almost no ground attack. Like you, I can also tell the club anecdotally of 2 casual fans (separate incidents) who went to that Rider disaster and said they'd never go again. Harsh? Perhaps. But that's the reality of the market the Leos have to deal with.


DH

[South Pender]

Welcome, louharris75. Great handle btw....Lou Harris and Monroe Eley formed a formidable backfield in '74. They were both 1,000 yard rushers!

Not to mention Johnny Musso, the "Italian Stallion," who was ripping off yards at about the same time. Injured in '74, I believe.

[MexicoLionFan]

First, good night for the Leos...Calgary, I'm sorry Blitz, had NOTHING to play for and it showed...and as soon as the injuries started, Calgary folded the tent...but our D looked strong...Biggie had another good night and should lock up an All Star spot and likely our MOP nod...but the 2 most important things were that Lulay got reps (and looked very good) and our commitment to the running game continued...which is incredibly important because if we run on SASK, with Lulay at QB, we will win that semi final as Stubler has the Defence firing right now...I know some of you want Buck to start, but IMO he just isn't solid enough, especially away from BC Place, to lead us to a win...this one should be up to Travis, if he is healthy enough...but Lulay shouldn't be throwing more than 25 times in Regina...we will live and die by the run game, and with Logan and Harris rolling, we can win via the run, and Lulay throwing fewer, smarter passes....

SP, you blindly defend Wally, Chaps and the Lions regardless of what the Players, Team Captains, the Opposition, Media, and other fans say...that's makes your views skewed and lacking perspective...it also makes you a strong Lion's fan, which is always appreciated, but difficult to engage in any "conversation" because there is no middle ground...

Toppy makes a great point about the Lions under Benevides and Chapdelaine this year...this year's attendance is a major disappointment, especially considering the stadium, and the team's last 2 seasons...to have this large of a drop off, in a gate driven league, IS A MAJOR CONCERN, whether you think it is or not...clearly not having Lulay (being beaten to a pulp for the 1st half of the season) at QB hurt, but the Lion's AWFUL road performances (the games where most casual fans watch) was a major reason for the attendance drop off...as TLK said, our road performance cost us 2nd and likely 1st place this season, and while some of it could be laid at the feet of both the defence and STs, our OFFENCE WAS PATHETIC on the road, with our OC showing ZERO efforts to make any in game adjustments, even when the announcers were calling for them, and then ridiculing our team for not making any...these experiences persuade the casual fan NOT TO SHOW UP to home games, and it furthers their belief that the CFL is "kind of a joke"...

Until the CFL starts paying coaches, especially assistants, and the referees more money, these embarrassing performances will continue and so will the label that this league can't shake. Now I love the CFL and rarely watch an NFL game, because the CFL is the most exciting sport to watch...but the label of being "a joke" is just in some regards...and with the cost of a CFL game in Vancouver now, from the time you leave your door and until you get back home, it is going to take some outstanding marketing (for a change) to not only grow the Lion's fan base, but just to maintain it...this is why the NFL is so successful, even in Canada, because people BELIEVE that the NFL is pure class and thus WANT to be identified with it...think about the Bombers this year...who would want to be identified with that??? Now think of the Lions in Montreal losing to that ridiculous 3rd string QB...that was on Chapdelaine and that embarrassment is what keeps a lot of people in BC away from our Lions...and again, Chapdelaine is a nice guy, he works hard, but it doesn't change the fact that there are A LOT BETTER QUALIFIED COACHES out there to do his job if we could afford them...

Sorry, but just being honest...