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David wrote:If the Argos offered up Zac Collaros (and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd round pick), I would seriously consider this if I'm Wally. They're likely to lose him to Ottawa and we have no guarantee of keeping Harris beyond next year. If I was somewhat concerned about Travis's shoulder before, I sure as heck am now. Is DeMarco the future? Hard to say. He has shown flashes, but Collaros looks like he could be a star in this league, and Toronto will of course, be protecting Ricky.

So, are there trades allowed after the Grey Cup, but before the Ottawa expansion draft? If there are trades allowed then i think the Bombers would be the ones trying to make a trade for Collaros or for a QB from TiCats, Stamps, Als.

DanoT wrote:

David wrote:If the Argos offered up Zac Collaros (and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd round pick), I would seriously consider this if I'm Wally. They're likely to lose him to Ottawa and we have no guarantee of keeping Harris beyond next year. If I was somewhat concerned about Travis's shoulder before, I sure as heck am now. Is DeMarco the future? Hard to say. He has shown flashes, but Collaros looks like he could be a star in this league, and Toronto will of course, be protecting Ricky.

So, are there trades allowed after the Grey Cup, but before the Ottawa expansion draft? If there are trades allowed then i think the Bombers would be the ones trying to make a trade for Collaros or for a QB from TiCats, Stamps, Als.

I think that the trade window was closed a little over a week ago until the expansion draft.

I was aware that the trade deadline ended on 10/9, so I didn't mean for this season - but when does it resume again? In time for the expansion draft, no?


DH

Mr. Harris as stated by many has certainly not shown any leadership Qualities. Yes our offensive line is not as strong as it has been in the past or as it should be. Is that a reason to let your contract run out and go somewhere else? Our whole offence is suffering and their are many reasons in which many on this form have documented. Travis Lulay's numbers this year would also have been a lot better with a better offensive line, you don't see him pouting and throwing his arms in the air when things weren't going as well this year. Does that mean that at the end of his contract he should also leave because of the offensive line? Mr. Harris is having difficulty with his own lack of success instead of just continuing to work hard and worry about team success. I don't care how good a player is but when that player is more concerned about individual success than team success it is time to move him. Running backs are easily replaced It would not disappoint me at all if Wally moved him in the off season for a decent starting Canadian offensive lineman.

Hey all,

Well, I know for certain that Harris won't be in a Lions' uniform next year. I bought his jersey this year. It's the kiss o' death, lemme tell you.

In 2007 I buy a Dave Dickenson jersey: he gets released in the offseason.
In 2008 I buy a Clermont jersey: he gets cut in the offseason.
In 2008 I also buy a Rob Murphy jersey: he defects to the Argos in the offseason.
In 2009 I buy a Pierce jersey: he gets cut in the offseason.
In 2012 I was given an Angus Reid jersey --in 2013 he doesn't start a single game for us.

I'm sorry, it's all my fault. But, if you lot want to buy me the official Chap jersey, I'll wear it until my particular brand of magic works.

------

On a more serious note, I attended the Lions-Ticats game in Guelph in September and sat two rows behind the Lions bench. I was so close I yelled to Korey Banks late in the 4th when the Leos were making a bit of a comeback, and he turned around expecting a heckler. I yelled, 'we need a pick' and he yelled back, 'we're working on it' (Phillips got one on the next series). I could overhear some of the things said on the bench, and it was interesting watching the sideline dynamic.

The TSN crew made a big deal of Marsh going up to Lulay (parked on the very edge of the bench, far, far away from everyone else) sometime late in the game. What they didn't pick up on was that several defensive players (Banks, Marsh, Williams, Taylor) made a point of going over to Lulay and speaking to him privately. I commented throughout the game on Lulay's sideline demeanour --it was as if he couldn't get far enough away from the coaches. I may be misinterpreting, of course, but it really stood out.

Harris was similar. Watching a bit of warm-up, he looked jacked pre-game. He was so excited and so visibly aggressive looking that I was expecting a big game from him, and I continue to believe that if they had just kept feeding him the ball he would have eventually found the holes and torn off some monster runs. But they didn't. As the game wore on his frustration levels grew. Much has been made in the past about Harris attending O line meetings, trying to understand their schemes, etc. Like Lulay, as the game wore on he became an island unto himself on the sideline. He was pacing back and forth all game like a big dog wanting to be let loose. But he wasn't obviously communicating with anyone else: the line were all grouped together with Dozario and Bates with a whiteboard, the receivers were all together, but Lulay and Harris were somehow adrift in their frustration.

Do you lot recall the 'Road to the Grey Cup' feature on TSN about the Lions' 2011 win? There was some great footage of Wally in the dressing room. He's got his hands in front of him and he claps on each syllable for emphasis: 'men, must win the line of scrimmage....Must...Win...the Line....of Scrimmage'. There was a defiance there that I loved. If you dominate the line of scrimmage, good things happen. It's simple. I don't think this current edition of the team is dedicated to winning the LOS. They're trying to manage it. We all understand why: the injuries to Reid and Fabien, the lackluster season from Archibald, etc. At its heart, this philosophy is wrong. Moj or Burns on the postgame show over the past few weeks has been dancing around the issue with the line: 'so the team doesn't run the ball well. If you don't tackle well do you stop doing it? If you don't pass well, do you stop doing it? So why is it acceptable to stop running the ball if you're not having success?'

A few years ago Montreal came into BC Place on a long undefeated streak and up until that point in the season they looked like men playing against boys. We beat the living heck out of them. We went double-tight for much of the game, and just rammed it down their throat. Now I know this isn't the formula for long-term success in the CFL, but it is exactly what we need at the moment. Well, in the playoffs. It isn't scheme and formation that is killing us, it's the current psychological state of the team, the mentality of the coaches. They have lost sight of the primary objective in football: it is not to manage the game, it is to impose your will.

Harris can't impose his will on opponents if he doesn't get the ball. The line can't impose its will if they're on the back-foot pass blocking all game. Kabongo isn't fast or nimble enough to pull from his guard spot to open up holes for Harris, who often has to wait for him to get his arse round the opposite centre-guard gap.

Here's how we win in Regina in three weeks: you put six or seven big boys on the LOS and you run hurry-up the entire first quarter, cycling the ball between Harris, Logan and Lumbala. None of these stupid sweeps. None of these too-clever-by-half blocking schemes. You put your helmet on your man and drive him back three yards. You use Manny and Jackson and whoever else in motion and start cracking linebackers and D-ends every single play.

This is, I believe, how the team can best harness Harris' aggression. Harris is less frustrated by his lack of touches than by the passive, 'manage the game' mentality that takes the ball out of his hands. If the jet sweeps were consistently ripping off 20 yards, do you think Harris would mind? Of course not. What is driving him mad is the 'oh...that didn't work so well....let's abandon it and do something else....' mentality.

Anyway, my two cents.

Cheers,

James

I can't believe a lot of what I am reading in this thread...has Harris made some missteps off the field this year? Yes, he has...but part of that comes from the fact that THERE IS NO LEADER ON OFFENCE...a group that does not posses an identity...Harris has tried to step up and be a leader, but as Toppy put it so well, some people just aren't cut out for that role...but at least he tried...I think the injury to Angus Reid is bigger than most of us understand, because of his lost leadership in the dressing room...remember, the only "player" more vocal about the Lions Offensive problems this year than Harris has been the injured Angus Reid....he has made it very clear that the O's problems lie at the doorstep of Crapdelaine...but no one else had said anything...

Now Blitz makes it sound like this is a "bad" thing to do...that the Lions should keep their "dirty laundry" private and that Harris has broken some sort of code for simply stating FACTS!!! And for that he is lambasted? I don't get it...so many of you want to talk about stats (which can always be manipulated to produce whatever outcome the author wants)...alright, let's talk about this stat...5 games into the season (with Kirby Fabien starting at RG) Andrew Harris was on pace to break both his rushing total from last year and his ALL TIME CFL RECORD for total yards by a CDN player in one season. Fabien suffered a season ending injury and Harris' production went into the toilet...in many of the games that followed Harris was given the ball to run with less than 10 FREAKING TIMES IN ONE GAME...and that's okay???

Bull$hit...this ridiculous season lays at the feet of Wally Buono and the Lion's coaching staff and not the players...Andrew Harris did not go from a CFL All Star, a CFL All Time Record Holder to a bum all by himself...Harris hasn't lost a single step or a fraction of his insane talent...hell, that run in Winnipeg 4 weeks ago in the 2nd half when he was pitched the ball as part of a toss to the left, and ended up avoiding 8 WIN players and reversing his field for a 30 yard gain simply proves it...he is an ELITE CFL talent that is being pissed away by a JOKE of an OC...

And then comes last week and the re-emergence of Stefan Logan...nice...stir the pot Wally, piss off your best CDN player for no reason at all...we need a Safety, we need an OLine, we need a DT, but Wally goes back into the annals of Lion's history (and his own arse) and pulls out Chris Wilson, Buck Pierce and Stefan Logan...let's see, at the time, DE with Keron Williams back outside was the LEAST of our frigging problems but whatever...Wilson comes in and guess what??? NOTHING...unless you want to include Roughing the Passer penalties, which I believe he leads the CFL in...you know, that's when you are a little too slow and run into the QB too late??? Then we trade away a CDN WR that looked like a monster in EDM a year earlier for Buck "No Mas" Pierce...and I LOVE Buck...he's a hell of a person and WAS a good CFL QB, but since he has been back...YIKES...the Lions didn't even turn to Buck in SASK last week when DeMarco completed more passes to SASK defenders that Lion receivers...and now, we publicly embarrass our Canadian All Star Andrew Harris, the ONLY change Wally makes on the offence, seemingly to suggest that it is all our young friend's fault...WTF??? What did Logan do??? He tried hard, he made 2 nice runs...he fumbled the ball and setup a SASK TD...and he did a good job returning kicks BUT NO BETTER than the incredibly hot Tim Brown...and for most of the game he was nailed in the backfield for losses, just like Andrew Harris! If this keeps up maybe it will be Logan publicly calling out the OC in a few weeks...

So Wally, maybe you better cut your ties with Logan now and see if Larry Keys or John Henry White are still available to play...because clearly our running problems are based on the Tailback position...or maybe our OLine is HORRID...or maybe our OLIne coach can't develop any of our 1st round OL draft selections, or perhaps he can't coach at all? Or perhaps we can't draft OLineman to save a darn (until Kelly Bates came along)...or maybe that's it, Kelly Bates a retired OL is coaching our RBs??? Or maybe, just maybe, our Offence struggles EVERY year for huge chunks of the season because the man in charge of our entire offensive system simply isn't good enough??? Well there's a novel idea...

The Lions have become a MESS and Wally Buono need look no further than himself...he knew what our problems were heading into this season, better than anyone else...but he has done NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to address any of these problems...Why is Chris Wilson playing DE for us when reigning CFL All Star Keron Williams is playing DT??? I don't know, I mean literally don't know...we go game after game with little of no sustained pressure on the QB, and NO PUSH from the interior of our DLine, and yet we add a DE that played for us 5 years ago...we add a backup QB long past his prime...and we add an import RB and KR when we had a great CDN RB and a very good KR???

Yeah, Wally, JR LaRose (who has NEVER INT a pass in his entire career in EDM and BC) doesn't hurt us at all...Patrick Kabongo (out of football 2 years ago) is our answer at LG...Dean Valli (coming off 2 knee surgeries in 2 years) is our answer at RG...Matt Norman (a rookie Guard) is our answer at Centre...we were literally unbeatable when we ran a 6 man DLine rotation for a year and a half, but we don't continue with this and trade off our All Star DT because he's a tweeting idiot??? Again, where is any of this Travis Lulay's fault for bailing to his right under constant, lethal pressure??? Where is any of this Jevon Olafoye's fault playing on a line that looks like Swiss cheese??? Where is any of this Courtney Taylor's fault when he bobbles his first 2 passes of the entire season during a rain storm in SASK??? Where is any of this Keron Williams fault for being asked (at 30) to add weight (and lose speed) and move inside to DT when he is an ALL CFL DE??? And where is it JR LaRose's fault to be asked to be a starter at Safety when he's only good enough to be part of the STs???? The answer to all of these questions is that it ISN'T their faults...the MGT and Coaching of this team have made a decade's worth of mistakes in one season, and look everywhere else than at what's actually needed and themselves...so what do we expect...if their actions and decisions are sh$t then how are we supposed to perform as a team???

Andrew Harris is a great football player who CARES about the team, the fans and himself...he has gone out, each and every week and played his heart out, only to be benched...yep, that's it...its Andrew Harris' fault...next problem please...

Sounds like you are not feeling lucky about the player jersey you choose jcalhoun... Maybe you should just get a Wally coaching jacket...

I like your concept in theory jcalhoun and I remember well going double tights against Montreal in that season. However, we do go double tights a lot on first down and we have not got results from it. We also have used the jet sweep rarely this season in comparison to 2012 and 2011.

I prefer the direction we are presently going in and that is using Logan mostly on first down and Harris on second down, where his receiving skills come more into play. I really don't believe that we can dominate the line of scrimmage this season with just straight ahead bull blocking. Archibald is not what he was, Valli can't do it, and Olifoye's back limits him from doing it. Kabongo could do it but he also does not have the quick explosion out of his stance and defenses are not just going to stand there. They run a lot of stunts and loops and linebacker blitzes that make straight ahead blocking more difficult. Our offensive line has also proved that it cannot zone block well for the run....have a look at our zone read play when we zone block and we don't move people.

Obviously winning the line of scrimmage is the best way to win and teams that do it usually win. However, what is the point of running Harris time and time again between the tackles for a 0-2 yard gain. All it will lead to is so many two and outs that by the time our line may have worn down the defense we will be so far behind we will have to pass anyway.

I think the temporary answer is Logan who can hit hoels quickly and make holes by himself mixed in with Harris. I also think using both in a two back set at times has some positive options. The permanent solution is to fix our offensive line. That will require a new import left tackle, a quality non-import left guard, the return of a healthy Fabian, and the back problem of Olifoye resolved.

At the receiver position we need to come up with a better threat than Iannuzzi at wideside outside receiver and its more than time we gave Haidara a shot there.

Longer term our Leos are going to need to decide whether Lulay is in their long term plans and who is next in line. My bet is that they give Lulay one more shot next season and if he hurts his shoulder again next year they will go with a different quarterback...either DeMarco or Hart but it will be a quarterback from inside, developed from within....the only way Wally likes to do it.

As for Harris its hard to right now which direction Wally wil go but I do not believe the Lions brass is happy with the leadership of Lulay or Harris this season and there have been a number of comments as well as some decisions to indicate that is the case.

Of course we know there will be significant changes on our defense as well next year but that is a topic for another time.

I have a gun metal gray uniform without any lettering, I may just place Chapdelaine on it and send it to you....now would his number 0...

Good post, James. The inability of the offensive line to fire off the ball is the biggest failing of this year's team. If you can't drive forward to give your quarterback a yard on a quarterback sneak and are always allowing the defence to control the line of scrimmage, the offence becomes one-dimensional. The Lions led the league last year in rushing and passing with largely the same coaching staff and personnel, except for three receivers and two offensive linemen. The biggest change has been the transition at centre from Reid and Norman. I hope Norman works out in the long term. I have my doubts.

David wrote:If the Argos offered up Zac Collaros (and perhaps a 2nd or 3rd round pick), I would seriously consider this if I'm Wally. They're likely to lose him to Ottawa and we have no guarantee of keeping Harris beyond next year. If I was somewhat concerned about Travis's shoulder before, I sure as heck am now. Is DeMarco the future? Hard to say. He has shown flashes, but Collaros looks like he could be a star in this league, and Toronto will of course, be protecting Ricky.

To make that move is to give up on Lulay because they would have to protect one or the other. I'm sure Ottawa would jump at Lulay if he was available.

Fantastic post James...thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts...and I agree with what you said...as Blitz noted, we may not have the personnel to execute the things that you wish to see, but then whose fault is that??? We are three quarters of a season removed from the best record in the league and hosting the WFinal...we are 1 and 3 quarters removed from winning the Grey Cup and we can't run the football with an All Star running back??? BRUTAL!

Harris and Lulay have both been thrown to the wolves by the Lion's MGT and coaches this year...they have been alone on islands because there is no other place for them to go!!! Blitz infers that the players were stoked about Logan's arrival, denoting that there is some level of disenchantment with Harris and that Lulay is the architect of his own problems and injuries...bullsh$t...Harris and Lulay are loved by their teammates because they possess elite talent and play with heart and fire...that is all any player can ask of a teammate...the reason no one else has spoken out about Chapdelaine or the Lion's woes is that they are looking to save their jobs...I am sure Marsh and Banks would have a literal TON to say if they could...but they know Wally all too well...seeing Harris star for another team in the CFL in the not so distant future wouldn't surprise me at all knowing a little bit about Wally's ego and beliefs...

Thanks again James...

Rammer wrote:I have a gun metal gray uniform without any lettering, I may just place Chapdelaine on it and send it to you....now would his number 0...

I think a negative sign would be more appropriate

Great posts, James and Blitz. Failing to win the fist-fight at the LOS accounts for most of our problems this year. As for Lulay and Harris, I don't believe they've been thrown to the wolves at all. The coaches have tried to produce success for these guys with a woefully-inadequate O-line. No one questions the desire or commitment of these two players, but there's no question that Harris has taken his opinions--and body language--beyond the bounds of what is acceptable if TEAM really comes first. As I said earlier, I think Harris might be a good slot. In my opinion, he's not top-shelf feature-back material. Wally can do better with a big and/or exceedingly fast and shifty import at that position. As for Lulay, everything depends on his recovery, in my opinion, and whether this shoulder issue is one we can expect to arise each year through cumulative wear.

I think it's always easy in hindsight to blame the coaches and general manager for a team's shortcomings. But how was Wally to know that Reid wouldn't play this year and that Fabien would be injured. At first, the O-line looked adequate: Archibald, Norman, Reid, Fabien, and Olafioye. With the small CFL rosters, losing two O-line starters and forcing a guy who's essentially a rookie into probably the most-demanding O-line position, we were doomed in terms of having a powerful O-line. Can't see how this is either Wally's, Bene's, or Chapdelaine's fault. The Riders lost Kory Sheets for a while, and their offense suffered greatly. Is this the fault of Taman, Chamblin, or Cortez because they didn't have the foresight to have a quality replacement on their roster?

Wally has been the most successful HC in CFL history, and is, in my opinion, a good GM. It just doesn't make sense to me to start blaming him, Bene, and Chaps for a disappointing season. Injuries can turn a promising season into a disaster; we've seen this time and again, and it occurs with the much-larger rosters in the NFL too. How will the Bears look now that Jay Cutler is out for a minimum of four weeks (and likely longer). Do we blame Marc Trestman for this? How will the Rams look now that Sam Bradford is out for the season? Jeff Fisher's fault?

KnowItAll wrote:

Rammer wrote:I have a gun metal gray uniform without any lettering, I may just place Chapdelaine on it and send it to you....now would his number 0...

I think a negative sign would be more appropriate

Not sure that I can get a hand gesture that fits that bill.

MexicoLionFan wrote:

Now Blitz makes it sound like this is a "bad" thing to do...that the Lions should keep their "dirty laundry" private and that Harris has broken some sort of code for simply stating FACTS!!! And for that he is lambasted? I don't get it...so many of you want to talk about stats (which can always be manipulated to produce whatever outcome the author wants)...alright, let's talk about this stat...5 games into the season (with Kirby Fabien starting at RG) Andrew Harris was on pace to break both his rushing total from last year and his ALL TIME CFL RECORD for total yards by a CDN player in one season. Fabien suffered a season ending injury and Harris' production went into the toilet...in many of the games that followed Harris was given the ball to run with less than 10 FREAKING TIMES IN ONE GAME...and that's okay???

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The Lions have become a MESS and Wally Buono need look no further than himself...he knew what our problems were heading into this season, better than anyone else...but he has done NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING to address any of these problems...Why is Chris Wilson playing DE for us when reigning CFL All Star Keron Williams is playing DT??? I don't know, I mean literally don't know...we go game after game with little of no sustained pressure on the QB, and NO PUSH from the interior of our DLine, and yet we add a DE that played for us 5 years ago...we add a backup QB long past his prime...and we add an import RB and KR when we had a great CDN RB and a very good KR???

I agree with you MLL, in that most of our problems are personell decisions made in the off-season or even before. There is no way that we should have been in a situation to have to start such a very inexperienced player at center and should have been developing a center much earlier, that Kabongo should only be a depth player, that Valli, is not good enough and especially coming off two knee operations, and that we knew Archibald was declining and Wakky offered him a reduced salary as an indication of such rather than replacing him. No question from my view that the major problem this season on offence has been our offensive line, especially in the area of run blocking, and that has been our major problem.

On defense I agree that it was not wise to sign Williams or move Keron into the tackle position but he did not play well outside as well this season either. I think he will be released in the off-season. While most would likely disagree I would have signed Foley in the off-season. It would have allowed us to play an import at safety and we already knew that LaRose was not good enough. We also did not address our defensive tackle situation and we really should have been able to find a big, tough import defensive tackle to replace Mitchell.

The fact that we do not have a dominant pass rusher or a dominant defensive tackle (Taylor has played well in his role without a complimentary tackle) and our defense has played as well as it has is amazing. Itès mainly been due to the scheming of Stubler and the play of our coners and halfbacks as well as our linebackers.

I do not agree with you regarding the comments of Harris whether they are FACTS or not. The fact is that, in any organization, if you publically criticize your boss, its insubordination. Doing it in a major newspaper is not wise, right or not. Players understand that as does anyone who works for a boss. Thee is also an unwritten code regarding criticism of a teammate or former teammate. You either wish the player well on his new team or make no comment when asked and you certainly don't initiate a comment publically. Plus, outside of that notion, you also don't do anything more to fire up that fomer teammate for the next time you play them.

But the actions of Harris this season have not only shown a lack of leadership....so lets say he is not leadership material...even though he said he wanted to be more of a player leader...they have also been anything but exemplary and missing the team flight by sleeping in before the Regina game is just another example. Yes, Wally should have done a much better job of getting us a better offensive line this season. But many backs, quality backs, have had to play behind an inferior offensive line at times, during their careers, and almost all of them play hard and do their best without drama.

I didnt' see our Leos doing anything wrong to Harris this season other than not providing him with a quality offensive line. He has had almost as many running touches as last season, we continue to throw the football to him more than any tailback in the league and yes, at times, we expect him to pass block..less so than other tailbacks. Cornish and Sheets and other teams tailbacks are used to pass block more often than Harris. It was Harris who chose to tweet about another roommate, who needed to show his frustration publically in games, which is showboating rather than playing, who yapped off to the press, who had a sulk fest after the Montreal game, who continued to make comments to the press and who missed a flight. He missed one in 2011 and Wally gave him second team practice reps that time but this time it did not look good.

Many Leo players commented last week very positively about the addition of Stefan Logan. Obviously Logan is not the future. There was no way that we could address the offensive line situation at this stage of the season so the only option was to continue with Harris or to take a chance that Logan could add something in order to give us a better chance in the playoffs. I think the deportment of Harris may have been part of that decision making process.

Pro football is not a democracy. Facts or no facts or disputed facts or opinions are fine on Lionbackers. However, if you have a problem or a concern as a player in pro football you either discuss it with your team captains who can go to the coach or you discuss them with the coach personally or you shut up or you can quietly ask to be traded. Its not the Oprah Winfrey show. Its the way it is, right or wrong, and the way it likely will always be.