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I know this doesn't matter a whole lot when it comes to personnel decisions, and maybe it shouldn't.

But Pre was a significant fan favorite in Toronto and even with Vanderjagt comes back, what's his shelf life, really?

cromartie wrote:I know this doesn't matter a whole lot when it comes to personnel decisions, and maybe it shouldn't.

But Pre was a significant fan favorite in Toronto and even with Vanderjagt comes back, what's his shelf life, really?

Not so sure about the "not mattering" part, cro. I think it matters a lot, and you've hit a vein here. Mike's shelf life? Maybe the season. Maybe not.

Really don't understand this move by Toronto. Back in the day Vanderjagt was a very good kicker, but that time is over. Despite his struggles Prefontaine is still a superior kicker than Vandgerjagt at this point in their careers. Great move by Edmonton, dumb move by Toronto. I'm not enjoying seeing teams in our division improve.

No Ordinary Joe wrote:Really don't understand this move by Toronto. Back in the day Vanderjagt was a very good kicker, but that time is over. Despite his struggles Prefontaine is still a superior kicker than Vandgerjagt at this point in their careers. Great move by Edmonton, dumb move by Toronto. I'm not enjoying seeing teams in our division improve.

Eskimos gave up a first round pick for 09, plus a conditional pick on Prefontaine's performance. If you ask me that is two rounds to high of a pick to trade to the Argos, let alone the conditional pick as well, for a player that has a huge contract, age, and TC opening Sunday, strange.

I agree that Vanderjagt is an upgrade over Prefontaine but let us not forget that Prefontaine can tackle, be a team leader, is younger than Mike and was probably cheaper as well.

Wally has taught me that in football, Cheaper+Younger=Better.

But Mac...Vanderjagt is 38 soon to be 39, and Prefontaine is 35.

So Vanderjagt is Younger+Cheaper?

Hambone wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:Mikes PCT last yr was still notably better than Noels last 2 seasons, for whatever that is worth.

is fg kicking supposed to be harder or easier in the NFL??

Vanderjagt didn't play last year. He last played for Dallas in 2006. He's also now 38 so is no spring chicken. Prefontaine turned 34 in December. omebody else in this thread mentioned NFL pedigree. Well Mike had a pretty good CFL pedigree before he went to the NFL. As for FG kicking it theoretically is more difficult in the NFL because they don't get the benefit of the little platform tee that is used in the CFL. They have to kick off the turf down south. For the Argos this likely is all about improving their FG kicking. Vanderjagt has a career 86.5% success rate in the NFL which the last I heard was the best in NFL history. Prefontaine was good on only 66.7% last year and 69.1% over his career. When Vanderjagt played for the Argos in 1996 & 1997 he also handled the punting chores and has a career 43.8 yard average with a net ave. of 36.0.

The hash marks are wider in the CFL - making angles tougher on some kicks; CFL coaches also go for more gamble or long FG kicks as opposed to just punting to try to pin a team behind their 20 - where a majority of NFL coaches often only go for sure-shot makeable FGs - plus, often worse field/weather conditions for CFL kickers to deal with - FG kicking is tougher in the CFL IMO.

I don't get Solar M saying this a wild & crazy move by the Argos ??? - is Vanderjagt all of a sudden totally washed up? - guy is the all-time NFL FG percentage leader, plus he was a very good dual kicker for the Argos back to back GC Champs; in an ideal CFL world with way more buck$ available - the Argos could have kept Prefontaine as punter (all time CFL career average leader) AND added an all-time great FG kicker in Vanderjagt - stlll, they added a great vet kicker; Prefontaine was often iffy or inconsistent as a FG kicker - blew too many makeable FGs - sad to see him go from the Argos but I'm excited about the return of Vanderjagt to Double Blue (hope he still has maintained his punting form) and the Argos got a first rounder from the Esks too !!!

OV - 54:40 wrote: I don't get Solar M saying this a wild & crazy move by the Argos ??? - is Vanderjagt all of a sudden totally washed up? - guy is the all-time NFL FG percentage leader, plus he was a very good dual kicker for the Argos back to back GC Champs; in an ideal CFL world with way more buck$ available - the Argos could have kept Prefontaine as punter (all time CFL career average leader) AND added an all-time great FG kicker in Vanderjagt - stlll, they added a great vet kicker; Prefontaine was often iffy or inconsistent as a FG kicker - blew too many makeable FGs - sad to see him go from the Argos but I'm excited about the return of Vanderjagt to Double Blue (hope he still has maintained his punting form) and the Argos got a first rounder from the Esks too !!!

Vanderjagt is 38, soon to be 39, and he hasn't played in a couple of seasons. Prefontaine, whatever you may think of his Placekicking, is an excellent punter.

Yes the Argos got a first rounder out of it, but Pre is 3 years younger. As an Argo fan, (didn't know that, interesting) you may be enthused, but there are differing opinions everywhere you look. Hope he works out for you.

Solar Max wrote:But Mac...Vanderjagt is 38 soon to be 39, and Prefontaine is 35.

So Vanderjagt is Younger+Cheaper?

My bad, I forgot 38 is the new 28.

MacNews wrote:

Solar Max wrote:But Mac...Vanderjagt is 38 soon to be 39, and Prefontaine is 35.

So Vanderjagt is Younger+Cheaper?

My bad, I forgot 38 is the new 28.

Easy mistake to make.

OV - 54:40 wrote:

Hambone wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:Mikes PCT last yr was still notably better than Noels last 2 seasons, for whatever that is worth.

is fg kicking supposed to be harder or easier in the NFL??

Vanderjagt didn't play last year. He last played for Dallas in 2006. He's also now 38 so is no spring chicken. Prefontaine turned 34 in December. omebody else in this thread mentioned NFL pedigree. Well Mike had a pretty good CFL pedigree before he went to the NFL. As for FG kicking it theoretically is more difficult in the NFL because they don't get the benefit of the little platform tee that is used in the CFL. They have to kick off the turf down south. For the Argos this likely is all about improving their FG kicking. Vanderjagt has a career 86.5% success rate in the NFL which the last I heard was the best in NFL history. Prefontaine was good on only 66.7% last year and 69.1% over his career. When Vanderjagt played for the Argos in 1996 & 1997 he also handled the punting chores and has a career 43.8 yard average with a net ave. of 36.0.

The hash marks are wider in the CFL - making angles tougher on some kicks; CFL coaches also go for more gamble or long FG kicks as opposed to just punting to try to pin a team behind their 20 - where a majority of NFL coaches often only go for sure-shot makeable FGs - plus, often worse field/weather conditions for CFL kickers to deal with - FG kicking is tougher in the CFL IMO.

I don't get Solar M saying this a wild & crazy move by the Argos ??? - is Vanderjagt all of a sudden totally washed up? - guy is the all-time NFL FG percentage leader, plus he was a very good dual kicker for the Argos back to back GC Champs; in an ideal CFL world with way more buck$ available - the Argos could have kept Prefontaine as punter (all time CFL career average leader) AND added an all-time great FG kicker in Vanderjagt - stlll, they added a great vet kicker; Prefontaine was often iffy or inconsistent as a FG kicker - blew too many makeable FGs - sad to see him go from the Argos but I'm excited about the return of Vanderjagt to Double Blue (hope he still has maintained his punting form) and the Argos got a first rounder from the Esks too !!!

Prefontaine has had some injury problems in recent seasons as well and his injuries often come up around playoff time for some reason. He has more mileage on him because of the way that he plays and the hits that he gives and takes. He had two concussions last season alone (granted one of them came as a result of a blown assignment by another player) and apparently reported to the FAN 590 recently that he is still experiencing headaches. He was a devoted Argo and, for that reason in particular, I hate to see him go. However, the Argos need better field goal kicking which they will definitely get from Vanderjagt regardless of how old he is. He still has a terrific leg on him. In fact, I doubt that Vanderjagt is much older than the fellow that the Lions have kicking for them.

Edit: I just checked and McCallum turned 38 earlier this year.

I am a Vanderjagt fan, and I hope he does well, but I sure wish he had keep his mouth shut regarding Payton and I hope he can keep it shut from here on in.

I guess time will make the Argo's either genius's or goats. One thing is for sure if MV was still all that primetime, he would have a job in the NFL. That should be the first warning sign. Nobody down there wants him despite the career stats. If he was all that, then someone would have him regardless of price.

Sir Purrcival wrote: One thing is for sure if MV was still all that primetime, he would have a job in the NFL. That should be the first warning sign. Nobody down there wants him despite the career stats. If he was all that, then someone would have him regardless of price.

That was my thinking, Sir P. Maybe I'm wrong, but 29 other GMs didn't want Mike for whatever reasons.

Sir Purrcival wrote:I guess time will make the Argo's either genius's or goats. One thing is for sure if MV was still all that primetime, he would have a job in the NFL. That should be the first warning sign. Nobody down there wants him despite the career stats. If he was all that, then someone would have him regardless of price.

Or maybe he wanted to have less pressure that the CFL provides, although as a kicker, you have to think that the NFL pressure wouldn't be that demanding like an O/D starter would have it.

Argos have had the P/K pretty good since the last go around with Vanderjagt, I would imagine he will be decent still, but this isn't a long term move them.