2012 WDF Attendance

[Hambone]

The other thing. Two games on the same day must absolutely have some impact on some fans who want to see both so they stay home. If you go to a game you want to make the game and after game experience the best. Div. finals on the same hurt that for some fans.

I know it means that both divisions get the same prep time for the next game BUT....................Not sure of the answer.

I believe that is an absolute non-factor. Any fan who would come up with that as a reason to stay home is highly unlikely to bother going to the stadium in the first place.

[David]

I loved Donny Taylor yesterday right when he got in. He said he was listening all day and all he heard was the big Blue Jays trade and was sick of it. He then stated that there is a BC Lions Western Final on Sunday and wanted people to talk about that instead.

I try to listen to David Pratt's show as much as I can. He tries to squeeze in as much Lions stuff as he can in less than 2 hours. Once the Dan Russell show starts, it's all hockey with some CFL dissing.

No, I believe Donny was on TEAM radio yesterday putting down his OWN SHOW! Since it's Sportsnet, a Rogers owned network, he was forced to lead with Blue Jays baseball, "which doesn't start up 'til next year," he said. "This is Vancouver," he added, "and the focus should be on the Lions in the Western Final."

That took guts.

Can you elaborate on the CFL dissing on Dan's show? I have not heard him put down the league in some time (some of it, I might add, was deserved). In fact, he often has people on like Glen Suitor or Lowell Ullrich to dissect the Lions/CFL.


DH

[TheLionKing]

Dan Russell is a big goof. Dissing the CFL is nothing new with him.

[sj-roc]

That's impressive, sj-roc.

Thanks, Mike — I take it you mean the graphic rather than the data embedded therein.

Actually I find all your work to be impressive. I've been following your last few posts on the attendance figures and it's all really well done.

Thanks again for the kind words. BTW, when I said data embedded therein, I meant the fact that it was reflecting underwhelming ticket sales, which I'm sure has left you as unimpressed as anyone else.

I've sampled the numbers a couple more times since posting that graphic and there's an ever so slight increase (possibly just noise as I mentioned before) in the uptake ramp; it still projects to over 1000 empty seats in that area (right endpoint of the dashed diagonal line). Also, I didn't mention this last time, but the numbers I've shown don't necessarily correlate 100% to actual purchases: TM holds buyer-selected seats for several minutes, so concurrent sampling during such a stretch overestimates sales if these go unsold post-sampling, adding a slight degree of noise (unwarranted optimism) to matters.

I'm somewhat amused at just how linear the uptake has been this week. I remember doing first year physics labs in univ, where the data plot was always supposed to form a straight line, but I clearly recall at least a couple of them looking not nearly this good! I'm not sure there's even a good reason (mathematically speaking) to assume uptake should conform so linearly. It's not like all the folks firm on buying are conspiring together and co-ordinating their purchase schedules to orchestrate a linear evolving of the sales data.

If I had my time back I think I might have started this "project" much earlier, perhaps as soon as we clinched first. That would have allowed some opportunity to observe how various factors have affected sales thus far: the gong show 34-0 start to our last game in Cgy, weekend vs weekday purchasing, knowing the opponent from the WSF outcome, etc. This broader sampling window might have betrayed some irregularities in the uptake pace that perhaps have failed to appear in just these last four selling days. Maybe next year. :P

We never did get that promised sales figure from Skulsky today, did we?

I checked both the Lions website and the News1130 twitter feed where they first said numbers were soon on the way. Nada.

[Toppy Vann]

The other thing. Two games on the same day must absolutely have some impact on some fans who want to see both so they stay home. If you go to a game you want to make the game and after game experience the best. Div. finals on the same hurt that for some fans.

I know it means that both divisions get the same prep time for the next game BUT....................Not sure of the answer.

I believe that is an absolute non-factor. Any fan who would come up with that as a reason to stay home is highly unlikely to bother going to the stadium in the first place.

Spoken like a hard core fan which you are.

My sense is that the game has ONLY so many of like this and the issue is keeping these folks but it must be this and growing more.

No doubt that is how those at the CFL see it too. I just think the CFL game needs to grow from 8 teams and Ottawa isn't exactly a hot bed of football.

While the game is in pretty good shape, growing the game should be a top priority. Fans on TV don't make this league and the players rich. It needs fans in stands.

[SammyGreene]

We never did get that promised sales figure from Skulsky today, did we?

I checked both the Lions website and the News1130 twitter feed where they first said numbers were soon on the way. Nada.

He had to announce something in the 40,000s or it would be a major buzz kill. That's my only guess.

A last minute plea to season ticket holders about buying additional tickets, twitter ticket links and full page ad in today's Province. Looks like they are pulling out all the stops to bump the numbers.

[Big Time]

I don't mean to dump on the great work being done here but I have to wonder why people are so obsessed about the attendance for the game in the first place. The crowd is going to be whatever the crowd is going to be. As long as they are loud and cheering for the Lions, then I don't care how many are there.

For whatever reason, people seem to think that a crowd of 40,000 shows the market doesn't care about the Lions. I thought we were past these market based insecurities. The reality is that there is a hardcore contingent of Lions fans that come to the games and it generally sits around 30,000 people. It fluctuates up or down depending on the opponent and what's at stake, but I think that's probably about what the market is in BC and that's just fine. Looking around at some of the "good" markets in the CFL, Edmonton didn't crack 40K for their labour day matchup with the Stamps, and the Stamps barely cracked 30K for their playoff game against the Riders (where supposedly their entire province shows up for each and every game home or away).

40K+ will be the biggest crowd of the year in the CFL. Sounds like similar sales numbers for the Eastern final. Those numbers are just fine and show that the Lions will have a big crowd of supporters cheering them on to hopefully another Grey Cup appearance.

[Ravi]

I don't mean to dump on the great work being done here but I have to wonder why people are so obsessed about the attendance for the game in the first place. The crowd is going to be whatever the crowd is going to be. As long as they are loud and cheering for the Lions, then I don't care how many are there.

For whatever reason, people seem to think that a crowd of 40,000 shows the market doesn't care about the Lions. I thought we were past these market based insecurities. The reality is that there is a hardcore contingent of Lions fans that come to the games and it generally sits around 30,000 people. It fluctuates up or down depending on the opponent and what's at stake, but I think that's probably about what the market is in BC and that's just fine. Looking around at some of the "good" markets in the CFL, Edmonton didn't crack 40K for their labour day matchup with the Stamps, and the Stamps barely cracked 30K for their playoff game against the Riders (where supposedly their entire province shows up for each and every game home or away).

40K+ will be the biggest crowd of the year in the CFL. Sounds like similar sales numbers for the Eastern final. Those numbers are just fine and show that the Lions will have a big crowd of supporters cheering them on to hopefully another Grey Cup appearance.

The East Final will have more than 50k and perhaps as much as 60k in attendance. The Esks did draw a crowd of 43k this year for a game against the Riders so the West Final will have to top that figure to be the most attended game in the west.

I would hazard a guess that what concerns many Lions fans is that this as good as it gets for the team - they have had an outstanding team with many exciting players, a refurbished stadium that many consider to be the best in the country and no other major sports competition. They really should be able to draw 50k+ under those circumstances for a game of this magnitude. What happens if and when the Lions start to struggle?

[Lions4ever]

Dan Russell is a massive toolbag. Dissing the CFL is nothing new with him.

FTFY.

[Buonosjanet69]

I don't mean to dump on the great work being done here but I have to wonder why people are so obsessed about the attendance for the game in the first place. The crowd is going to be whatever the crowd is going to be. As long as they are loud and cheering for the Lions, then I don't care how many are there.

For whatever reason, people seem to think that a crowd of 40,000 shows the market doesn't care about the Lions. I thought we were past these market based insecurities. The reality is that there is a hardcore contingent of Lions fans that come to the games and it generally sits around 30,000 people. It fluctuates up or down depending on the opponent and what's at stake, but I think that's probably about what the market is in BC and that's just fine. Looking around at some of the "good" markets in the CFL, Edmonton didn't crack 40K for their labour day matchup with the Stamps, and the Stamps barely cracked 30K for their playoff game against the Riders (where supposedly their entire province shows up for each and every game home or away).

40K+ will be the biggest crowd of the year in the CFL. Sounds like similar sales numbers for the Eastern final. Those numbers are just fine and show that the Lions will have a big crowd of supporters cheering them on to hopefully another Grey Cup appearance.

since when did Dennis Skulsky get a lionbackers account? :P

[Buonosjanet69]

but it does speak volumes when the busiest thread on here by far is the attendance one. However, and as mentioned by someone earlier, it should ring alarm bells if this is all the team can do (30k reg season, low 40s for WDFs) when it has everything else going for it.

But hey, it they are turning in a profit with these crowds then I guess Van only has to be a 30K town.

I gotta say the one thing the Canucks have going for it is roster stability and the resultant familiarity with its star players, you pretty much know each year who's gonna be on the ice ...and that certainly helps with some of the attendance issues. Familiarity helps to build that Canucks brand, helps ppl identify with it.

But for the Lions, will Lulay even be here in two years? Signing him to a long term deal is critical on many levels, imo.

[Ravi]

but it does speak volumes when the busiest thread on here by far is the attendance one. However, and as mentioned by someone earlier, it should ring alarm bells if this is all the team can do (30k reg season, low 40s for WDFs) when it has everything else going for it.

But hey, it they are turning in a profit with these crowds then I guess Van only has to be a 30K town.

I gotta say the one thing the Canucks have going for it is roster stability and the resultant familiarity with its star players, you pretty much know each year who's gonna be on the ice ...and that certainly helps with some of the attendance issues. Familiarity helps to build that Canucks brand, helps ppl identify with it.

But for the Lions, will Lulay even be here in two years? Signing him to a long term deal is critical on many levels, imo.

The Lions have the likes of Geroy Simon, Angus Reid, Dante Marsh and Ryan Phillips, just to name a few, who have been around for many years now. I really don't see roster instability as having been a problem for the Lions.

[Buonosjanet69]

I singled out Lulay because he arguably the most important player for this franchise, for reasons even beyond the football field.

You don't have him in a few years it could be tougher. That guy is really garnering a lot of respect and attention these days

[Big Time]

I agree, Ravi. Once in a while the Lions get a transcendent star that really energizes the community. Doug Flutie was an example. Casey Printers (love him or hate him) had star quality too. Lulay is great and over time could be one of the best of all time, but he's more like a Dave Dickenson type of player. The fans know he's great but that's not enough to get those on the fence into the stadium.