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Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:46 am
by South Pender
Wasn't Khalif Mitchell's appeal hearing supposed to have taken place this week? Has anyone heard the results of the hearing?
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:48 pm
by notahomer
jcalhoun wrote:Hey all,
I suspect the Mitchell decision won't come down until the weekend. If it were announced today, it steals some of the thunder of tonight's FNF, and will earn comment in all the weekend papers. If they wait until tomorrow to announce their decision, it'll get buried by the closing ceremonies of the Olympics, and won't rate much comment come Monday. That allows the league to dodge critical media stories, especially editorials, that will likely assume the league bungled the decision/process.
If I were running the show I'd tack the announcement onto the tail end of this week's players of the week selections on Monday. "And in other CFL news....etc." Minimize the damage and all that.
Cheers,
James
I think you are 100% correct. Releasing 'bad' news late Friday afternoon and/or Saturday is a hallmark of politicians and companies. I have to admit I have even been guilty of an opposite version of this myself when I was still a child going to school. I 'forgot' to bring a note home to my mother from my grade four teacher one Friday that probably would have meant a bad weekend for me. I still had to deal with the fallout once Monday came when I
remembered that note I'd forgotten in my desk at school but it wasn't nearly as bad....
This is probably a no-win situation for the CFL head office. Many will be frustrated if the suspension is upheld and many will be frustrated if the appeal is successful and the penalties reduced in any manner. I know I was frustrated when the Gass appeal was successful......
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:50 pm
by Toppy Vann
The CFL argument for the late process will be their agreement with the players association and the fact that they have specific arbitrators to choose and possibly they if more than one were too busy. But they have to fix this process as it is an embarrassment and joke - lucky for them the NHL is considered to a bit of a joke in how they do discipline and they have a lot more than the CFL as football is not typically a sport that has goonery to the degree of hockey.
Arbitrators typically in complex cases go off and make a decision in private after consulting prior histories. Not sure why this can't be a faster process but the reality is that it is a labour- management process with the players having to agree to the rules versus a top down imposed system of discipline with less balance of power as it is not an arbitrator deciding what to do. Arbitrators must be agreed to (or at least a list from which one is chosen in most collective agreements I know) and this usually means the arbitrator must be seen to be fair to both sides or one side will not agree to that person in future.
There is no conspiracy here to hide the news or make it on day that is not a game day or some other day. An arbitrator selected by sides would never ever agree to postponing a decision for a better news day.
Summary of the agreement on Arb here:
"Arbitration System
The current arbitration system has been maintained, with the following amendments:
• The CFLPA and the CFL and its clubs must use best efforts to expedite the arbitration process once a notice to arbitrate has been filed; and
• The list of arbitrators has been changed, and is to comprise four individuals in total - two located in eastern Canada (east of Winnipeg) and two in Western Canada (Winnipeg and west). "
http://media.cfldb.ca/documents/cfl-cfl ... t-2010.pdf
They need an expedited arbitration process for discipline issues.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:02 pm
by Blue In BC
The arbitration took place on Wdnesday. That doesn't really have anything to do with why they would delay the official statement. That has more to do with the politics of when to announce the news. Olympics etc etc.
Just watched most of the Edmonton game and see that Rottier is still on the IR. Normally an injury to a player isn't taken into account when the result is a player being suspended, but as I've suggested before, I think in this case it should.
My view is that was an intent to injure and as blatant a RP as I have seen in as long as I can remember.
How long is Rottier out for/ Anybody know?
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:20 pm
by Blue In BC
So where is any sort of announcement?
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:23 pm
by Rammer
Blue In BC wrote:So where is any sort of announcement?
I would expect it to come out Tuesday Dale, seems that most of the league office stuff takes until Tuesday after the weekends games.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:59 pm
by Zarquon
Blue In BC wrote:So where is any sort of announcement?
From the
teamradio.ca practice report.
Khalif Mitchell also met with the media and discussed the appeal hearing for his two game suspension which was held last week. The arbitrator has yet to make a decision, but Mitchell said he felt good about how the hearing went.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:23 pm
by QB Club 63
Zarquon wrote:Blue In BC wrote:So where is any sort of announcement?
From the
teamradio.ca practice report.
Khalif Mitchell also met with the media and discussed the appeal hearing for his two game suspension which was held last week. The arbitrator has yet to make a decision, but Mitchell said he felt good about how the hearing went.
That pretty much agrees with what I heard Khalif saying on Saturday at Rick's (BC Lions Day at Sports & Stuff). He was late in arriving due to his flight from Toronto being delayed. He made it with about half an hour left in the autograph session but graciously stayed on to make sure he met with everyone who waited.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:13 pm
by Toppy Vann
In the conspiracy laden CFL, there must be something up. Maybe Braley has got the CFL to suspend him at the Lions request for two games later on thus slowing the entire process down to get the Lions past the games they need him in. Maybe it is hoping that SE will return and then they don't even def. linemen as SE will take care of the tackling in the def. backfield.
Arbitrator ar'-bi-tray-ter: A cook that leaves Arby's to work at McDonald's.
source:
http://www.jokebuddha.com/Arbitrator#ixzz23TulPghd
Question: What is the first symptom of schizophrenia?
Answer: The sole arbitrator drafting his dissenting opinion.
Back here on earth, of course the player thinks the arbitration went well as the arbitrator mostly listens and asks some questions. Then he comes down with a decision that he hasn't signaled of course.
IIRC the list of arbitrators must be agreed to by the CFLPA so no arbitrator is going to be less than fair to both parties.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:33 pm
by Rammer
Toppy Vann wrote:In the conspiracy laden CFL, there must be something up. Maybe Braley has got the CFL to suspend him at the Lions request for two games later on thus slowing the entire process down to get the Lions past the games they need him in. Maybe it is hoping that SE will return and then they don't even def. linemen as SE will take care of the tackling in the def. backfield.
Arbitrator ar'-bi-tray-ter: A cook that leaves Arby's to work at McDonald's.
source:
http://www.jokebuddha.com/Arbitrator#ixzz23TulPghd
Question: What is the first symptom of schizophrenia?
Answer: The sole arbitrator drafting his dissenting opinion.
Back here on earth, of course the player thinks the arbitration went well as the arbitrator mostly listens and asks some questions. Then he comes down with a decision that he hasn't signaled of course.
IIRC the list of arbitrators must be agreed to by the CFLPA so no arbitrator is going to be less than fair to both parties.
IIRC, one such CFLPA arbitrator is/was an Eskimo ST holder, not sure how 'fair' he would be, but it always does allow for Sir P's smell tester.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:27 pm
by Toppy Vann
Rammer - If someone makes decisions that offend one of the parties too much that guy will not stay on that list as the other side will reject that person. Kind of like 3 strikes - only they don't wait to ding the guy off their list to get to 3.
If the below from Mitchell is true which is very hard to believe this speaks to the need for expedited discipline via arbitration.
“I can’t even go out right now,” he said Monday. “I had a death threat from somebody over the weekend. My girlfriend was out and some dude recognized her as my girlfriend and he told her I want to kill that guy. It’s real uneasy. But I have a strong faith.
Read more:
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Khali ... z23Uhedvkl
The Lion media folks need to get this guy some media relations training or at least shut him up. I know they walk a fine line with the player's rights to file a grievance under the relevant Labour Code and the Lions as employer can't stop that. But they need to get this guy reined in with this kind of talk. I
“I got a chance to feel who my real fans were when all the other ones with the big mouths left
I very much hope for his sake that despite taking full advantage of his rights to appeal (I hope he gets 1 game and just 1 lost pay day) but more importantly I hope he learns the lesson here. If he hasn't then we can guess that the next time it will be worse.
Code: Select all
"It takes a strong man not to say something. I know who I am, and that’s what it boils down to. I know what I did. I know what I believe in.
This smacks of a bit of paranoia - never heard this mentally unfit comment said other possibly as a figure of speech:
“A lot of people try to say I’m mentally unfit: ‘He turned down the NFL, now he’s breaking arms.’ But at the end of the day I got to be confident in myself. If I keep grounded, it doesn’t matter how many fans are with me.”
This is a guy who has gained nothing but respect for staying in BC. Not everyone who doesn't like what he did has "left" on him. Quite the contrary. Those who criticize the play are those who are close to the game having played it before and know it is different than the goonery in hockey. Football is rough and tough but there is a strong code of discipline instilled in players as penalties like in hockey can't be "killed." Football penalties (too many) are key determinants of the outcome in games especially IF the other side is taking any.
The reason I don't like to see the CFL players lose money is that they don't make the same money as NFL or NHL and it hurts these guys who are here in the city as well as having to keep a place back home.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:48 pm
by Toppy Vann
The Sun has a story on the appeal as well with some detail as to how the player presented his side:
He also reaffirmed his stance that he was not trying to hurt Rottier, and that what occurred was, as he called it, "a football play" - points of view he has not backed down from since initially commenting on the play following that game, despite numerous objections from fans and media.
“My story never changed, my story was never added on to, it was never reframed or refurbished,” Mitchell told reporters Monday, once practice at the Lions' Surrey facility concluded.
“I just stuck with the same story that I gave after the game ... there was never any backdown or any aggression, it was just my story and I was confident in myself and my spirit with it.”
Read more:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Lion ... z23UobbBZb
He is lucky that an arbitrator is not like a trial judge adjudicating a criminal matter where when it comes to sentencing the judge considers remorse as well as deterrence to others along with likely rehab of the offender when considering sentence options.
I say this as his need to render any sort of persuasive argument in his defense has to keep him on message that this was a football play, not an act of trying to rip an arm off. Of course the arbitrator has the video at his disposal too and can see for himself what the act was.
The CFL on the other side will also present a case for the 2 game suspension and quite frankly an arbitrator will be very hard pressed to alter that ruling and even cut it to one game. Not sure if the arbitrator could stick with the two game suspension but alter the "without pay" provision and cut that to one game. I didn't check their rules.
The defense (not sure if khalif would just do it himself) arguments would be that the penalty was too harsh and 2 games is just outside the norms and not fitting with the play and how it happened. If the Arbitrator bought that he could reduce the suspension to 1 game but unlikely he'd rule that the player was not to be suspended.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:23 am
by DanoT
I say one game suspension is appropriate because what KM did was not premeditated. What KM did was dirty, illegal play, but he was provoked by an illegal hold.
Re: Mitchell 2-gamed suspended for dirty play
Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:43 am
by Blue In BC
A suspension without the loss of a game day pay check is not exactly a penalty to the player. I don't know if that variation is allowed as part of the appeal.
That hurts the team and not the individual. What would be the point?