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If the video is as unclear as has been reported, Jimenez is going to get off. THEN we'll see the screaming from alot of supposed fans of the game.

hwgill wrote:If the video is as unclear as has been reported, Jimenez is going to get off. THEN we'll see the screaming from alot of supposed fans of the game.

You don't need video evidence if you have eye witness accounts. This would include refs and players from both teams.

Vern Halen wrote:Thanks for the kind words.

You all have a really great group and great board here.

Just because we cheer for different teams doesn't mean we all can't enjoy the game.

Vern,

Your Avy rocks!

Disturber wrote:

Vern Halen wrote:Thanks for the kind words.

You all have a really great group and great board here.

Just because we cheer for different teams doesn't mean we all can't enjoy the game.

Vern,

Your Avy rocks!

LOL - it's freakin' hilarious you should say that - I did it up today after I saw yours and I thought "I should do one like Disturber's cause that kicks ass!"

Calgaryclan wrote:It's going to come out before the game. And as aRider troll posting under a fake name as a CALGARY FAN, I almost hope it isn't as blatant. But, I have to think, with all the media analysists, former players, and for ****'s sake his own teamates commentsabout something they haven't seen. I'm glad I'm not a BC lion's fan.

Go Riders! (said with not that much enthusiasmlest you find out I'm Jer Bear posting under another username)

Fixed.

cromartie wrote:

Calgaryclan wrote:It's going to come out before the game. And as aRider troll posting under a fake name as a CALGARY FAN, I almost hope it isn't as blatant. But, I have to think, with all the media analysists, former players, and for ****'s sake his own teamates commentsabout something they haven't seen. I'm glad I'm not a BC lion's fan.

Go Riders! (said with not that much enthusiasmlest you find out I'm Jer Bear posting under another username)

Fixed.

You let the Cat out of the bag on him Cromartie.

Blue In BC wrote:

hwgill wrote:If the video is as unclear as has been reported, Jimenez is going to get off. THEN we'll see the screaming from alot of supposed fans of the game.

You don't need video evidence if you have eye witness accounts. This would include refs and players from both teams.

with todays technology, video can lie better than humans can.

KnowItAll wrote:

Blue In BC wrote:

hwgill wrote:If the video is as unclear as has been reported, Jimenez is going to get off. THEN we'll see the screaming from alot of supposed fans of the game.

You don't need video evidence if you have eye witness accounts. This would include refs and players from both teams.

with todays technology, video can lie better than humans can.

The eyewitness account of a single ref, one of a group that fans have been accusing of incompetence this entire season. Sorry if that doesn't fill me with confidence on this call.

hwgill wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:

Blue In BC wrote:

You don't need video evidence if you have eye witness accounts. This would include refs and players from both teams.

with todays technology, video can lie better than humans can.

The eyewitness account of a single ref, one of a group that fans have been accusing of incompetence this entire season. Sorry if that doesn't fill me with confidence on this call.

OTOH, what non lion or lion fan has come forward and say they clearly saw it and it was not as the ref says it was???

Those who beleive him guilty have more foundation than those who do not beleive him guilty.

KnowItAll wrote:

hwgill wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:with todays technology, video can lie better than humans can.

The eyewitness account of a single ref, one of a group that fans have been accusing of incompetence this entire season. Sorry if that doesn't fill me with confidence on this call.

OTOH, what non lion or lion fan has come forward and say they clearly saw it and it was not as the ref says it was???

Those who beleive him guilty have more foundation than those who do not beleive him guilty.

But NO ONE has come forward and said that they saw anything at all. The league has not even issued a statement saying what the ref says he saw. Perhaps when the whole arbitration thing is over they will issue some kind of definitive statement (hopefully they will), but in the meantime we are all in the dark, aren't we?

I have been one of those people who you would describe as not believing that he is guilty, but that would not be accurate. I have no opinion because I have nothing to base a credible opinion on. Just as you do not.

Gerry wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:

hwgill wrote:
The eyewitness account of a single ref, one of a group that fans have been accusing of incompetence this entire season. Sorry if that doesn't fill me with confidence on this call.

OTOH, what non lion or lion fan has come forward and say they clearly saw it and it was not as the ref says it was???

Those who beleive him guilty have more foundation than those who do not beleive him guilty.

But NO ONE has come forward and said that they saw anything at all. The league has not even issued a statement saying what the ref says he saw. Perhaps when the whole arbitration thing is over they will issue some kind of definitive statement (hopefully they will), but in the meantime we are all in the dark, aren't we?

I have been one of those people who you would describe as not believing that he is guilty, but that would not be accurate. I have no opinion because I have nothing to base a credible opinion on. Just as you do not.

I go by the refs original call, and Jimenez reputation, as well as other apparent eye witness accounts that say whatever happened was well behind the play and therefor unnecessary

KnowItAll wrote:

Gerry wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:OTOH, what non lion or lion fan has come forward and say they clearly saw it and it was not as the ref says it was???

Those who beleive him guilty have more foundation than those who do not beleive him guilty.

But NO ONE has come forward and said that they saw anything at all. The league has not even issued a statement saying what the ref says he saw. Perhaps when the whole arbitration thing is over they will issue some kind of definitive statement (hopefully they will), but in the meantime we are all in the dark, aren't we?

I have been one of those people who you would describe as not believing that he is guilty, but that would not be accurate. I have no opinion because I have nothing to base a credible opinion on. Just as you do not.

I go by the refs original call, and Jimenez reputation, as well as other apparent eye witness accounts that say whatever happened was well behind the play and therefor unnecessary

Fair enough. The thing is though that all you have to do is go back to the tussle in Regina to know how bad the refs can be. Rasouli, who ended up being suspended, wasn't even flagged on the play. Murphy, who did nothing, was. The name escapes me, a receiver, I believe it was was ejected, but was not suspended. Chick threw a punch and was not flagged or suspended. There were refs all over the place and they royally botched it. That's one example. There are many more. Ask a fan from any team.

So, now you have a penalty, supposedly away from the play a good distance. It doesn't get in the view of the TV cameras. Could the ref have see the aftermath of the hit and then reacted to the injury rather than the hit itself? Did he see Jiminez launch himself at the Stamp player, Perry style, or did he look in that direction a bit too late to see Jiminez trip or be pushed? Is the league now backing their official as they have done on so many other occasions when there is a controversial call?

Usually we can decide for ourselves when we see the replay. In this case we cannot, at least until we see how good this video of theirs is. I agree that Jiminez has a reputation. If you know of his reputation, please name one earlier incident of a similar nature that stands out in your mind. Any one. Remember that he is not leg-whip or choke hold Murphy. He is not knee-em, kick-em Rasouli. He is Jason Jiminez. Name one other similar incident that causes you to condemn him this time.

As for these other eye-witnesses, please link to any one account of their version of what happened. Just one.

Thank you.

KnowItAll wrote:

Blue In BC wrote:

hwgill wrote:If the video is as unclear as has been reported, Jimenez is going to get off. THEN we'll see the screaming from alot of supposed fans of the game.

You don't need video evidence if you have eye witness accounts. This would include refs and players from both teams.

with todays technology, video can lie better than humans can.

LOL - "In other news, staff at Pixar have been hired to re-create the events of Saturday November 3rd in a Canadian Football League game between the British Columbia Lions and the Calgary Stampeders..."

CGI Jiminez...

Or how about this? Whatever video evidence exists would be like the Zapruder film.

Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.

Seriously though - I'm a fan that is waiting for proof one way or the other - "innocent until proven guilty"

Vern Halen wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:

Blue In BC wrote:

You don't need video evidence if you have eye witness accounts. This would include refs and players from both teams.

with todays technology, video can lie better than humans can.

LOL - "In other news, staff at Pixar have been hired to re-create the events of Saturday November 3rd in a Canadian Football League game between the British Columbia Lions and the Calgary Stampeders..."

CGI Jiminez...

Or how about this? Whatever video evidence exists would be like the Zapruder film.

Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.

Seriously though - I'm a fan that is waiting for proof one way or the other - "innocent until proven guilty"

So what is your opinion then? The ref's and the CFL are out to get Jiminez? The ref didn't see anything and the CFL supported his statement to the point of issuing a suspension and making an effort to suspend him for more than a single game, was based on absolutely nothing?

I understand the innocent until proven guilty issue, but you're willing to suggest the ref is guilty of error because you can't see it on video.
Certainly video would be preferable and there may be video we haven't been allowed to see. I don't know.

Sorry, but I have to agree that the CFL made the correct decision based on the facts. If that isn't true, we have bigger problems than this issue.

You might also consider that the suspension has determined he is guilty and that an appeal is an excercise in rights and a determination is whether a suspension was fair based on the action.

If you take AJ Gass's win on his appeal. He was guilty of his action. The overturn was not of his action but of the severity of the penalty.

Throwing a helmet into space although by rule is a suspension is overkill, even though we understand why that rule is in place.


Regardless, win or lose the appeal, it is not good for the CFL that this overlaps a season. At a certain level, it would be better if he was found not guilty than guilty at the appeal level.

If he's found guilty after the fact, it's going to be ugly.

Blue In BC wrote:

Vern Halen wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:with todays technology, video can lie better than humans can.

LOL - "In other news, staff at Pixar have been hired to re-create the events of Saturday November 3rd in a Canadian Football League game between the British Columbia Lions and the Calgary Stampeders..."

CGI Jiminez...

Or how about this? Whatever video evidence exists would be like the Zapruder film.

Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.
Back....and to the left.

Seriously though - I'm a fan that is waiting for proof one way or the other - "innocent until proven guilty"

So what is your opinion then? The ref's and the CFL are out to get Jiminez? The ref didn't see anything and the CFL supported his statement to the point of issuing a suspension and making an effort to suspend him for more than a single game, was based on absolutely nothing?

I understand the innocent until proven guilty issue, but you're willing to suggest the ref is guilty of error because you can't see it on video.
Certainly video would be preferable and there may be video we haven't been allowed to see. I don't know.

Sorry, but I have to agree that the CFL made the correct decision based on the facts. If that isn't true, we have bigger problems than this issue.

You might also consider that the suspension has determined he is guilty and that an appeal is an excercise in rights and a determination is whether a suspension was fair based on the action.

If you take AJ Gass's win on his appeal. He was guilty of his action. The overturn was not of his action but of the severity of the penalty.

Throwing a helmet into space although by rule is a suspension is overkill, even though we understand why that rule is in place.


Regardless, win or lose the appeal, it is not good for the CFL that this overlaps a season. At a certain level, it would be better if he was found not guilty than guilty at the appeal level.

If he's found guilty after the fact, it's going to be ugly.

In regards to whether or not Jiminez is guilty, I do not have enough information to make an informed opinion. Since I don't have that info, I cannot with a good conscience, make a decision one way or another. I have not seen video of the incident, nor was I there so I cannot speculate.

There is a process in place (flawed as it may be) that allowed Jiminez to appeal his suspension. Like it or not, that's the process put in place by the league and the CFLPA and we are dealing with the result. All that being said, the league has already said that the appeal process is something their going to look at during the offseason and work with the CFLPA to try and get a better process in place. You cannot change the rules 90% of the way through the season no more than you can change the rules 90% of the way through a game.

As far as if the ref made an error - he is a human being, and as a result, will occasionally make wrong decisions. We all have done that - how many times in your life do you wish you had a "do-over"? I'm sure you have, as I have as well. Officials make errors from time to time, hence video replay while a game is on.

I am not condemning anyone (Jiminez, the officials, the league), but there is a flaw in the system, and it's something we have to deal with right now. B****ing and complaining will solve nothing at this point.