Lions 20 - Bombers 17, Post-Game Stats and Comments

[Hambone]

I can't see the Riders dealing for Jennings at this point in time. Not unless Callaros' health is worse than we know. Adding Jennings would mean Jones would have 2 QBs in almost the same situation, great season(s) a few years ago but struggling now. So why would Jones trade away assets just to get another QB in the same boat as Collaros?

It also takes a lot of pressure off of Jones if Collaros doesn't recover and Bridge continues to
struggle. He can say "I told you so" about Bridge while not having to accept responsibility for signing Collaros. "Hey, who knew he'd get hurt?".

I think Jones will be happy let the Riders flounder under the 2 QB system of Bridge and Watford all season so he can convince the Riders to open the vault for Mike Reilly in the offseason. Of course Jones will need a contract extension for himself before Reilly will agree to sign with the Riders in order to play for his old coach.

Really wouldn't make SMS sense for the Riders unless they knew Collaros will be gone for longer than the 6G. They negotiated his deal down a bit but are still paying north of $400K. Depending on any bonuses they ate one stint on the 6G might not buy them the sort of relief to assume Jennings new salary which if I recall is now around $300K.

[zeppo]

BC beat a good team. The difference? Lulay.

No. The Lions won this game because their defence pitched a shut out in the second half, and got four turnovers in the process.
Travis played OK, but the defence gave him the opportunity to bring the Lions back.

[Belize City Lion]

Really wouldn't make SMS sense for the Riders unless they knew Collaros will be gone for longer than the 6G. They negotiated his deal down a bit but are still paying north of $400K.

I am talking about NEXT season. No way Reilly is going anywhere until season end. Edmonton definitely will not trade him for anything, but Reilly will be a UFA at the end of the season. If the Riders do manage to sign Reilly, Callaros gets cut before the ink is dry.

[Hambone]

Really wouldn't make SMS sense for the Riders unless they knew Collaros will be gone for longer than the 6G. They negotiated his deal down a bit but are still paying north of $400K.

I am talking about NEXT season. No way Reilly is going anywhere until season end. Edmonton definitely will not trade him for anything, but Reilly will be a UFA at the end of the season. If the Riders do manage to sign Reilly, Callaros gets cut before the ink is dry.

Ah. I thought you were talking this season. I found a bit more on Collaros' deal. Per 3DNation he was set to be paid $540K this year per his old Hamilton deal. Riders reworked that down to $430K with $225K up front so that he could take advantage of tax laws that would have him taxed at 15% on any signing bonuses. I believe that new deal was just a 1 year deal making him, along with Reilly, an FA after this season.

As I said in an earlier thread I'd be hard pressed to believe Reilly won't already have a new deal inked before this season ends unless he wants to wait until the new CBA is negotiated which is unlikely to happen before the eve of training camp.

[Blitz]

I think the Riders might be interested in trading for Lulay, but not Jennings who would just be the equivalent of Bridge 2.0 for them. Chris Jones has no experience in developing a young QB, and it shows. I don't think it would be good for Jennings either and learning a new offense and on a new team, at this point in the season really is a non starter for Jennings. Dano T.

Jennings won't have a choice if he is traded during this season. I don't believe the Riders would be interested in Lulay.

In terms of Jennings contract status I know that he was signed to a 3 year rookie contract when he first came to B.C.

Jennings started the last 6 games for us in 2015. Its almost hard to believe now, but in those 6 games Jennings, completing 66 per cent of his passes for 2,004 yards with 15 touchdowns.

If Jennings play this season, would have continued as it was, in six games, he would have completed 66.7% of his passes for 974 yards and 4 touchdowns. That is the drop off of his play from his rookie season, let along his 2016 season.

Which brings me to Jennings contract status. When Buono named Jennings as his starter, upon returning to the sidelines to coach in 2016, Jennings was on a 3 year rookie contract that paid him around $55,000 a season. He had to request more as the new starter. Just before training camp it was announced that Jennings was given a contract extension to 2018 (an extra season).

It was an awkward situation, with Jennings announced as the starter for 2016 but not being paid as a starter while Lulay was being paid starters money. Jennings new contract paid him $150,000 for 2016 and $175,000 for 2017. I don't know how much Jennings is being paid this season as he took a pay cut so that Hervey could sign free agent linemen, as Figuroa and later Olifioye, but it would have been an escalating contract, in his final year of the deal.

As a starter, from 2013 to 2015, Lulay was paid $ 450,000 per season. If Lulay is brought back as a starter next season (he will need a new contract, he will expect to be paid a much higher salary than the contract Jennings has accepted (or been forced to accept) so we could keep both Jennings and Lulay on the roster.

That would mean that, if Lulay is our starter next year, Jennings would have to go (and would likely also want to leave). Lulay accepted the backup role here, as he was injured a the time and once again injured going into this season and because no other team was interested in signing him as a future starter nor could pay him the salary we were paying for Lulay to serve as a backup/mentor.

That may change if Lulay stays healthy for the rest of this season and continues to play well.

But things are going to change in Leo Land for 2019. Buono will be gone and the script for next season is a long way from being written yet.

[Blitz]

While its interesting to speculate, unless our Leos do trade Jennings this season (as TSN is saying could happen) we're a long ways away from 2019.

Lulay is a free agent at the end of this season. So is Jennings. Our Leos only signed Travis to a one year deal for this year and Jennings contract is up.

When Jennings was playing well, we had a good thing happening in terms of quarterback depth. Jennings low contract for a CFL starter allowed us to keep Lulay and pay him well as a backup and mentor.

However, if Lulay is signed to be the starter next season, he will cost us more than Jennings ever did as a starter and we will likely need a developmental quarterback as our backup.

In focusing on the immediate, I'm pleased for Lulay getting another opportunity to be our starter. He has strong leadership abilities as a quarterback, he is a 'character' guy, and he has been a loyal soldier while mostly sitting most out the last two seasons. Not easy for a former MOP who has had tough roads back due to injuries.

While I would have preferred our Leos to have held back Lulay for another week, it all worked out. And I had reached the conclusion that Jennings needed to go to the sidelines and practice and try to get his game back.

What has happened to Jonathan Jennings is almost inexplicable. Here was a quarterback who loved to challenge defenses deep in 2015 and 2016 that became afraid to throw deep. He only threw 2 completions for over 15 yards in his last game. The why is the most interesting question.

Its also important to keep the big picture in mind. Travis Lulay played very well in his four games as a starter last season and made some excellent plays in last night's game, especially considering his rust. Its interesting that the pass he threw to Bryan Burnham, on our last possession of the ball game, is the type of pass that we didn't want Jennings to throw anymore.

My concern is not Travis Lulay's play. Now that his shoulder has been at full strength since last season's training camp, we know that he has the ability, with his mind, his arm, his legs, and his experience to lead our offence successfully.

But Travis has also had shoulder surgery and two knee surgeries, including coming off knee reconstruction surgery this off-season. He may get fortunate and remain healthy all season and mosty healthy for many years to come. Any starting quarterback is only a hit away but Travis is a higher risk due to his injury history.

What that means to me, is that if Lulay is our starter, we really want to have a quarterback who is the backup that we can have confidence in, if necessary. Right now that isn't Jonathan Jennings and its not anyone on our roster at this point in time. Perhaps, further along this season, that could be Cody Fajardo or it could be Ricky Lloyd or it could be a restored Jonathan Jennings if he isn't traded.

But in the euphoria of a 20-17 win, all is not fixed just because Travis is at the helm. We made some adjustments to our offence (less RPO) and our pass defense was good in the second half of this game. But we couldn't score for too long in this game, we only scored 20 points, even off 3 interceptions, the Bombers really self-destructed to give us the opportunity to come back in this game, and our defense still can't stop the run.

I wouldn't be rushing to buy Grey Cup tickets yet if one is anticipating our Leos playing in the Grey Cup game this year. It was a big win for us, almost a necessary win, and if we can build on it, then more positive things will happen.

But there are still changes to be made and more work to be done.

[Hambone]

Jennings' original deal was torn up after his rookie season. The new one was to be $150K in 2016, $175K in 2017 then a big raise to $300K this year. I think Travis was to be in the $225K range last year giving the quite reasonable QB costs in 2017. In theory Jennings was to now be entrenched as starter with big raise coinciding with the expiration of Lulay"s deal. Things didn't quite work out according to plan.

[dodger]

A win is a win but my oh my was there a lot of brain cramps by the Lions.

1. Sleeping on an onside kick. I sat in the stands thinking to myself watch out for it Winnipeg might just go for it. But I then thought no Reinbold would not allow them to be so unprepared. Oh well.

2. Shotgun on 3rd down

3. Poor clock management at the end of the half.

4. Not making adjustments to Harris running off the outside. Looked like Bo Lokombo was to far inside leaving a huge area for Harris to run outside.

A positive result but the Lions still have a long way to go.

[Blitz]

A win is a win but my oh my was there a lot of brain cramps by the Lions.

1. Sleeping on an onside kick. I sat in the stands thinking to myself watch out for it Winnipeg might just go for it. But I then thought no Reinbold would not allow them to be so unprepared. Oh well.

2. Shotgun on 3rd down

3. Poor clock management at the end of the half.

4. Not making adjustments to Harris running off the outside. Looked like Bo Lokombo was to far inside leaving a huge area for Harris to run outside.

A positive result but the Lions still have a long way to go.

No question. Wally should have called a time out towards the end of the half. He has always been a terrible game day coach but with his experience, those things should not be happening.

There are two ways to look at this game. As a Leos fan, of course its an inspiring comeback. But really, it too a whole lot of miscues by the Bombers for it to happen.

We should celebrate the victory but with a caution, in terms of remembering that the Bombers also contributed to their own demise and meltdown in numerous ways. Without those many errors by the Bombers, the post game discussion in the media and on Lionbackers would have been very different.

F

rom cfl.ca

Bombers ready to move on from meltdown in BC
The Canadian Press


VANCOUVER – It will be hailed in these parts as a monumental and astonishing comeback for the BC Lions.

And for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers?
It will be cursed as a monumental and astonishing collapse – with a few choice curse descriptors that just can’t be repeated here.

The Bombers coughed up a 17-0 halftime lead in spectacular fashion Saturday night at BC Place en route to a mistake-filled 20-17 loss to the Lions that not only drops them to 2-3, but will leave everyone in Bomber Nation surly for the days to come.

“That’s going to sting a lot,” said right tackle Jermarcus Hardrick. “I’m just so emotional right now I don’t want to say the wrong thing. It’s just such a hard one to take. Now we’ve got to flush it and move on, but we all took our turns. Personally, I feel like I let the team down. This is going to be a tough one to put away because of that.”

The Lions sealed the comeback with a 16-yard Ty Long field goal with no time remaining, causing the 19,541 in attendance to leap to their feet in celebration. But from a Bombers perspective, it marked the conclusion of a frustrating second half in which they had bungled so much after a solid opening 30 minutes.

“We killed ourselves,” began quarterback Matt Nichols. “They did the things they needed to win, but we let this one slip away, for sure, with our own mistakes. There are 10 different instances that changed the game, really. Everything we could do wrong, we did wrong.”

The many mistakes, so many to attempt to chronicle here, included five turnovers – three interceptions and two botched short-yardage attempts – nine penalties, including three roughing the passer calls and a horse collar infraction totalling 51 yards, a 42-yard field goal attempt that clanged off the upright, three or four drops by the receiving corps, much of those gaffes coming in the second half.

“We played a good first half and we didn’t really play in the second half,” said head coach Mike O’Shea. “Four giveaways (in the second half), URs (unnecessary roughness), offside… penalties and turnovers, it’s tough to win.”

[TheLionKing]

A win is a win but my oh my was there a lot of brain cramps by the Lions.

1. Sleeping on an onside kick. I sat in the stands thinking to myself watch out for it Winnipeg might just go for it. But I then thought no Reinbold would not allow them to be so unprepared. Oh well.

2. Shotgun on 3rd down

3. Poor clock management at the end of the half.

4. Not making adjustments to Harris running off the outside. Looked like Bo Lokombo was to far inside leaving a huge area for Harris to run outside.

A positive result but the Lions still have a long way to go.

Totally agree with the assessment.

[Qman]

Any scuttlebutt on Jeremiah Johnson? I don't recall him going down on the field then noticed Rainey was always on the field. I looked down on the sidelines late in the 1st half and didn't see #24.

He suffered an left ankle injury early in the first quarter. He tried to come back for one play but was in too much pain. He was on the sidelines in the second half in a walking boot. Will likely see Brandon Rutley activated on Friday in Ottawa.

Joel Figueroa also suffered a leg injury in the first half and barely struggled through the final series of the half. He was limping the rest of the way but he made it through the game. At one point David Knevel came onto the field. I thought he was being sent in to replace Figueroa but they just exchanged helmets and Figueroa stayed in.

Tks! I did notice Figueroa struggle to get up after I think the 2nd last play of the 1st half. Had me wondering what the contingency plan was given Steward is out. Olafioye switch sides and Foucault slide over? Foucault over to left tackle with Godber taking his spot?

interesting to see what would happen.
Knevel was RT in college at Nebraska (they have him at backup LG for some reason)
Godber was a LG in college at Rice (they have in backing up RG on the sheet)
Foucault is a natural LT but hasn't played outside in CFL.
JO can obviously play both.
Greaves can play LG or RG but probably not T.

[Qman]

Jennings' original deal was torn up after his rookie season. The new one was to be $150K in 2016, $175K in 2017 then a big raise to $300K this year. I think Travis was to be in the $225K range last year giving the quite reasonable QB costs in 2017. In theory Jennings was to now be entrenched as starter with big raise coinciding with the expiration of Lulay"s deal. Things didn't quite work out according to plan.

i believe Jennings restructured his deal this off season to bring him down into the 200s range, but was achievable bonus laddened so he gets similar dollars after taxes (US citizens only get taxed 15% on bonus $)
Lulay has a similar deal.

there are some playtime bonuses that they effectively split but are cap neutral. ie. we are spending 440k on QBs no matter who plays which is low by CFL standards.

[CardiacKid]

I am wondering who did the majority of the talking at half-time? The coaches or the players? The level of determination in the 2nd half had me thinking the players were convinced the entirety of the season was set to turn on this result.

I don’t think I have ever seen a team show so much relief at reaching .500 after 4 games. Winning can be contagious. Maybe the emotion that spilled over will have the players working for each and not themselves as has been alluded to by Lions alumni and analysts.

Apparently Hervey came down to the sidelines and spoke to Willis. Essentially lit into him and said he was coasting by his standards. That stoked a fire in Willis as he, Knapton and Coleman were far more effective in the 2nd half.

I am wondering about Wally’s decisions in the last two games. Now, before you say “what’s new with that?!?!”, at least his decisions exist within a consistent context of his coaching philosophy. But the ridiculously early challenge flag in Winnipeg, the poor clock management at the end of the first half last night and going shotgun on 3rd down...those seem to be in a different category of head scratching all together.

Re. Jonathon Jennings...personally I don’t think Lulay’s performance last night is any justification for shopping him around. The young man has gifts, we have all seen them. Maybe, just maybe, watching Travis and being 2nd string will facilitate a shift in being a quicker decision maker. To cast him aside would be hasty. Wally will be gone next year, Jarious is pretty green himself and in 1-2 years, we will likely be without Lulay and if no JJ10 in the fold, then we are back at square 1 looking for a starting QB.

Re. the other JJ, #24, apparently he turned an ankle. From our seats, it looked like he was wearing an air cast when he came back to the sidelines. Figueroa was gutting it out for a major chunk of the 2nd half, it was a brave performance by him.

Folks are happy with the win but being understandably cautious, referring to the more work to be done. But isn’t there always more work to be done?

[Qman]

It should be noted that we should have 3 additional TDs and lulay another 100+ yds of passing if:

- ball didn't slip in his hands on first drive interception ... corner route was wide open in endzone
- drop in endzone at end of half
- manny was WIDE open on a deep pass in 2nd half, TL overthrow ... could have walked into the endzone

On D side:
- we have major issues at WILL ... bo was clearly getting picked on.
- we have major issues at DT/NT ... run over

My calculations we are starting 8 cdns. Why don't we start two US DTs and work in Luke as a rotational guy.

[CardiacKid]

It should be noted that we should have 3 additional TD and lulay another 100+ yds of passing if:

- ball didn't slip in his hands on first drive interception ... corner route was wide open in endzone
- drop in endzone at end of half
- manny was WIDE open on a deep pass in 2nd half, TL overthrow ... could have walked into the endzone

If Lulay already had some game action this year prior to being the starter, the offence would have been more impressive... as per Qman’s points above.