2015 Schedule Released - Women's World Cup implications

[sj-roc]

I don't see things being that difficult. Obviously the stadium will be off-limits for the entire WWC. If FIFA could live with the Lions having a game 2 nights before the final then there wouldn't be an issue squeezing in a preseason game in between June 16th and 21st and we know that isn't going to happen. In all likelihood they get a bye in Week 1 and play on the road in Week 2. With the Whitecaps playing Sundays in Week 3 and 5 both weekends are open to a Friday night home tilt. Even Week 4 may not be all that unrealistic. I don't know what the logistics are for a changeover from football to soccer but suspect the removal and repainting of lines from one sport to the other is the biggest time constraint unless they actually have separate turfs for Caps and Leos. Converting from concert to football likely takes less time. Concert roadies have their part down to a fine art. Tearing a stage, lighting and sound down has to take half the time it takes to assemble it. BC Place staff should be able to start laying the turf down just as soon as they start removing floor seating. It's conceivable a Saturday football game could be played night after a concert in Week 4. Regardless Byes Week 1 & 11; Friday nights Week 3 & 5; Weekends wide open Week 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 19 & 20. All adds up to 4 games before Labour Day with 5 post Labour Day.

I was speaking mostly with regard to the difficulty of having Saturday games specifically. Fridays are probably a close second preference-wise and there are many of those nights available but I think if most stakeholders and/or affected parties here had their way they'd want nothing but Saturday nights.

Something else I mentioned but hasn't been picked up is the nature of the annual scheduling cycle at BCP. With MLS getting their schedule set (and perhaps even started play) before the CFL, does this mean that as long as the two teams share the building, that the Lions will always be in a position of having to pick from the leftover scraps after the Whitecaps have skimmed off the dates they want? Do the Lions have any leverage at all in the process?

Re: soccer/football changeover and turf issues. I recall asking this question myself in the last year or two and someone mentioned the two teams use the same turf and the field lines are constantly erased and repainted with every changeover. In fact as I recall there were several instances last year of one team playing back-to-back home games without the other team hosting a game in between, and IIRC someone identified this as a way to reduce the amount of required changeover work over the course of a season, and said that BCP had a hand in twisting both teams' arms in accepting this arrangement.

[David]

Something else I mentioned but hasn't been picked up is the nature of the annual scheduling cycle at BCP. With MLS getting their schedule set (and perhaps even started play) before the CFL, does this mean that as long as the two teams share the building, that the Lions will always be in a position of having to pick from the leftover scraps after the Whitecaps have skimmed off the dates they want? Do the Lions have any leverage at all in the process?

This is a great question, sj-roc and one that should be asked of Skulsky at the next "Presidents Week" summit on TSN (assuming we are even invited without an agreement in place with TSN1040, which in itself is a little disconcerting, but I digress...). It would appear that the Whitecaps have determined that Saturday (afternoons) are their favourite day for home matches. But why should we be left with table scraps just because their season starts earlier?


DH

[sj-roc]

Something else I mentioned but hasn't been picked up is the nature of the annual scheduling cycle at BCP. With MLS getting their schedule set (and perhaps even started play) before the CFL, does this mean that as long as the two teams share the building, that the Lions will always be in a position of having to pick from the leftover scraps after the Whitecaps have skimmed off the dates they want? Do the Lions have any leverage at all in the process?

This is a great question, sj-roc and one that should be asked of Skulsky at the next "Presidents Week" summit on TSN (assuming we are even invited without an agreement in place with TSN1040, which in itself is a little disconcerting, but I digress...). It would appear that the Whitecaps have determined that Saturday (afternoons) are their favourite day for home matches. But why should we be left with table scraps just because their season starts earlier?


DH

I would think at a minimum that the Lions have priority for SF & F playoff games in November but MLS soccer season is over by then anyway. The other thing is, there are so many internal constraints that the CFL itself (and TSN) places on its own schedule that it might not be a straightforward matter for the Lions to tell BCP in Dec or Jan, "Hey, block off these eighteen nights because we might want to use some of them." I would think there ought to be some clear language in the Lions' lease with BCP on how their schedule is prioritised and balanced with that of the Whitecaps.

The logistics of setting the league schedule are (or have become) sufficiently complex that the league has consulted with University of Saskatchewan business professor (and self-disclosed Roughrider fan/STH) Keith Willoughby on getting it assembled. He even published this research paper in 2010 (link below) on how he went about building the schedule for that year. This was in the eight-team era, so the process has become even more complicated now with Ott back in the loop to make it nine. It's a somewhat dry read in places but it identifies pretty much all of the scheduling issues that get discussed on boards like this and the takeaway is that it's not a simple task.

"A Decision Support System for Scheduling the Canadian Football League"

A couple of passages:

Formulating a model to develop the CFL schedule is somewhat different from the modeling efforts devoted to determining schedules for other sports. Whereas applications for such sports as hockey and European or South American football attempt to minimize total distance travelled, our approach does not consider these factors because CFL teams return to their home cities after a road game. Moreover, baseball and hockey teams have the flexibility to play multiple games spread out on any day of the week. In the CFL, each team plays at most one weekly game on any day between Thursday and Monday.
...

... (C)ommercial software providers have... developed scheduling applications that are being successfully implemented in both professional and amateur sports organizations. Examples of such companies include the Bortz Media and Sports Group, Optimal Planning Solutions, and the Sports Scheduling Group. Apparently, the CFL had been approached in previous years by different organizations interested in applying computer-based procedures to developing the league’s regular-season schedules. The league’s reluctance to enter into agreements with such parties may have been driven by the costly nature (in the CFL’s estimation) of these services. Our involvement with the league occurred in an unexpected fashion. Both authors are sports fans; one, a season ticket holder with a CFL team, had written a letter to league officials requesting clarification of the schedule creation process and indicating that an analytical approach could prove advantageous. When we indicated our willingness to develop an OR model simply “for the love of the game,” we sparked the interest of league management.

Incidentally, KW is also the same person who created the league's standings simulator that's been discussed on this board before: it calculates during the course of a season based on current standings the probability for each team finishing in what place in their division. Here's a Global news story from last October, with a 4-min video (still plays as of this writing, I just checked) of him being interviewed about this simulator:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1592564/cfl-s ... s-ti-cats/

Excerpt:

SASKATOON – A computer program being used on the CFL’s website is not giving the Saskatchewan Roughriders much of a chance to win the West Division even though the man who designed it, Keith Willoughby, is a long time Riders fan.

Willoughby is the associate dean of research and academics at the Edwards School of Business at the University of Saskatchewan.

He’s designed a computer model that the CFL is hosting on its website.

For the Riders, the model currently gives them a 2.94 per cent chance of winning the West. For Willoughby, it’s a painful conclusion.

“It hurts me, being a passionate member of Rider Nation, and a season ticket holder,” Willoughby told Global Saskatoon’s Morning News.

[TheLionKing]

Here's what my account executive has to say:

Thank you for your email. We do know that we are not playing the pre-season game at BC Place due to the Women’s world cup. We are in the process of securing a venue in the Lower Mainland however we haven’t confirmed anything yet as we are trying to figure out what the best solution is going to be.
Once we know we will email and let you know your options. The options depend on the location of the game so once this is determined we will go from there. I know for a fact that if you are unhappy with the options you can always get the money refunded.

[sj-roc]

Here's what my account executive has to say:

Thank you for your email. We do know that we are not playing the pre-season game at BC Place due to the Women’s world cup. We are in the process of securing a venue in the Lower Mainland however we haven’t confirmed anything yet as we are trying to figure out what the best solution is going to be.
Once we know we will email and let you know your options. The options depend on the location of the game so once this is determined we will go from there. I know for a fact that if you are unhappy with the options you can always get the money refunded.

Good to hear they will entertain refunds. I'm sure for some people they'd just as soon not be bothered anyway, having to pay reg season price for a pre-season game with so many players who will only end up getting cut.

On the matter of the release of the 2015 schedule, last year's schedule was released on Wed Feb 12 which IIRC was the day (or perhaps two days) after the 2014 FA period began. So should we expect to see the 2015 schedule tomorrow, or at least sometime before the end of this week?

EDIT: for further comparison, here are the schedule release dates for other recent seasons, which average to about Feb 15:
EDIT2: to add the 2015 release date.

2015: Fri Feb 13, source
2014: Wed Feb 12, source
2013: Tue Mar 05, source
2012: Sat Feb 18, source
2011: Fri Feb 18, source
2010: Mon Feb 01, source
2009: Tue Feb 03, source
2008: Thu Feb 21, source
2007: Wed Feb 14, source
2006: Fri Jan 27, source
2005: Mon Feb 28, source

[sj-roc]

A Jan 22 Sun media article by Kirk Penton on this year's yet-be-released schedule:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/01/22/upc ... auts-again

Upcoming CFL schedule will be tough on Argonauts, again
By Kirk Penton, Winnipeg Sun

First posted: Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:18 PM EST
Updated: Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:24 PM EST

CFL fans should soon be able to start planning their summers.

Last year's schedule was revealed on Feb. 12, and CFL president and COO Michael Copeland is hoping fans will see it even earlier this year [Not much time left for that! — sj-r]. There could be some hurdles that prevent that from happening, though.

“The schedule is an incredibly difficult one at the best of times,” Copeland said Thursday in Winnipeg, where the CFL's annual winter meetings are being conducted. “This year it's made more difficult with the 2015 Women's World Cup and the Pan Am Games in southern Ontario. We're working on it, we're hopeful in the next short while we'll be able to release a final version.

“We're going through some final changes with the teams, so we've sent the teams a final draft to review. They're reviewing it, and then coming out of that there inevitably will be some tweaks.”

The word is it's going to be another rough schedule for the Argos, who have to fight for time at Rogers Centre this year with both the Blue Jays and the Pan Am Games. Last season, primarily due to the Blue Jays schedule, the Argos went seven weeks without a home game.

“That's one of the things we're trying to make sure we make it as good as it can possibly be, but there's challenges there,” Copeland said. “The Argonauts have been really resilient in working through those challenges, but that's one of the things that we're still working on.”

A couple other item from this week's meetings:

* The search for a new commissioner continues, and there's a chance the final interview process could take place at the board of governors meeting in late February. The league would like to have someone in place before the season starts, but “it's more important for the search committee to find the right individual,” Copeland said.

* Like most professional sports leagues, the CFL is always trying to figure out ways to attract new fans. That's why Raptors “superfan” Nav Bhatia, who is a big reason why Toronto's NBA team has such a diverse fan base, was in Winnipeg on Thursday to give a presentation to the league and its nine teams.

“You always have to maintain your core fan base, and we have an extremely strong one,” Copeland said. “So we're committed to them, but reaching out to new fans and younger fans in new ways is important for any league. It's a priority for us.”

[Hambone]

Something else I mentioned but hasn't been picked up is the nature of the annual scheduling cycle at BCP. With MLS getting their schedule set (and perhaps even started play) before the CFL, does this mean that as long as the two teams share the building, that the Lions will always be in a position of having to pick from the leftover scraps after the Whitecaps have skimmed off the dates they want? Do the Lions have any leverage at all in the process?

This is a great question, sj-roc and one that should be asked of Skulsky at the next "Presidents Week" summit on TSN (assuming we are even invited without an agreement in place with TSN1040, which in itself is a little disconcerting, but I digress...). It would appear that the Whitecaps have determined that Saturday (afternoons) are their favourite day for home matches. But why should we be left with table scraps just because their season starts earlier?


DH

If there's a difficult part it's that MLS's schedule historically has been all over the map. Seems to me it hasn't been unusual for the Whitecaps to play 3 or 4 games in 2 weeks then not play at all for 3 weeks. This has likely hurt MLS particularly in the US where folks are used to gridiron teams playing every weekend. This year's Caps sked looks like more like a gridiron football schedule. 26 of their 34 games are on Saturdays, 5 are Wednesdays and 3 are on Sundays. Bottom line the Whitecaps have 34 games to play over 34 weeks or an average of 1 home game every 2 weeks, just like the Lions. The Lions usually have a home game on the last weekend of the season and with Ottawa back usually have a bye on Labour Day weekend. Other than maybe not being fussy about playing at home on the BC Day long weekend I don't know if it matters much one weekend to the next when the Lions play or for that matter the Whitecaps. In theory there's enough weekends for them to rotate every Saturday without clashing.

[Hambone]

Here's what my account executive has to say:

Thank you for your email. We do know that we are not playing the pre-season game at BC Place due to the Women’s world cup. We are in the process of securing a venue in the Lower Mainland however we haven’t confirmed anything yet as we are trying to figure out what the best solution is going to be.
Once we know we will email and let you know your options. The options depend on the location of the game so once this is determined we will go from there. I know for a fact that if you are unhappy with the options you can always get the money refunded.

Kind of goes without saying given it's unlikely any venue within the Province could hold more than maybe 1/3 of season ticket holders. Cool! Getting my money back is like a bonus for this out-of-towner who has only used his pre-season ticket once before and that was in 1983.

[sj-roc]

In theory there's enough weekends for them to rotate every Saturday without clashing.

True but even if there no were outside logistics to complicate things, it's mathematically impossible for the CFL to have teams alternate H/A every week amenably, even if there were only eight teams with no odd-man-out issue to deal with every week. It would mean the four teams that host in Week 1 would always play at home for odd weeks and on the road in even weeks, so when would these four teams ever get to face each other? You'd only get to play the same four teams through the season (the ones who are always on the road when you're at home and vice versa) which wouldn't be amenable. And if you can't do it for the whole league, it wouldn't really be fair to let any one team have such a schedule — so the league probably tries to avoid favouring anyone like this. By necessity pretty much every team gets saddled with back-to-backs both at home and on the road at some point in the season, with perhaps a bye coming between them.

Just as significantly, not all weekends are created equal in this market. No one wants the two mid-summer fireworks Saturdays (the latter of which falls on BC Day long weekend; we've almost always played home games on the Friday night before when we must host during either of these weekends). And Labour Day generally doesn't suit us as a nine-team league leaves us no opponent what with the traditional LDW schedule. Canada Day often creates a long weekend and doesn't help the gate here, either, if we host at such time. Long weekends in general are a drag on the Lions' gate. Would have been nice to see the Caps take LDW, which we would never use, and leave open some other Saturday that would otherwise suit us. But I suppose they don't always (ever?) like to host on long weekends, either.

[B.C.FAN]

Here's what my account executive has to say:

Thank you for your email. We do know that we are not playing the pre-season game at BC Place due to the Women’s world cup. We are in the process of securing a venue in the Lower Mainland however we haven’t confirmed anything yet as we are trying to figure out what the best solution is going to be.
Once we know we will email and let you know your options. The options depend on the location of the game so once this is determined we will go from there. I know for a fact that if you are unhappy with the options you can always get the money refunded.

I'll bet one of the options is to get an extra regular season ticket in lieu of a preseason ticket. It would be like last year's guaranteed-win promotion but without the fan backlash. And the cost to the team in lost revenue would be minimal. Most season ticketholders likely would give the extra tickets away to friends and family who wouldn't have bought tickets themselves.

[sj-roc]

Here's what my account executive has to say:

Thank you for your email. We do know that we are not playing the pre-season game at BC Place due to the Women’s world cup. We are in the process of securing a venue in the Lower Mainland however we haven’t confirmed anything yet as we are trying to figure out what the best solution is going to be.
Once we know we will email and let you know your options. The options depend on the location of the game so once this is determined we will go from there. I know for a fact that if you are unhappy with the options you can always get the money refunded.

I'll bet one of the options is to get an extra regular season ticket in lieu of a preseason ticket. It would be like last year's guaranteed-win promotion but without the fan backlash. And the cost to the team in lost revenue would be minimal. Most season ticketholders likely would give the extra tickets away to friends and family who wouldn't have bought tickets themselves.

Not that this is completely relevant to the current situation, but I wonder how things worked for Green Bay Packer STHs back in the days (before the mid-1990s) when they would play two or three of their eight reg season home games in Milwaukee.

[sj-roc]

Checking out cfl.ca to see if the 2015 schedule has been uploaded and I see this:

http://cfl.ca/2015releasert

It looks like some sort of gimmick where they want people to tweet about the schedule and then when it hits some threshold, they release the schedule. It's almost there now and prob will be by the time you read this.

EDIT: a partial screenshot:



And they've reached it. This is supposed to be the link for the schedule but I don't see it there yet:

http://cfl.ca/5kv3sia2xq

[squishy35]

Its there now....

[squishy35]

http://cfl.ca/5kv3sia2xq

MOD EDIT - merged this with Women's World Cup implications thread as both were about the new schedule. Thanks. DH

[sj-roc]

Its there now....

Still not seeing it here. Initially I get what appears to be an image placeholder but then nothing appears.