CFL/CFLPA Labour Negotiations -- Deal reached

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David
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Uh oh. Andrew Harris has put foot his foot in his mouth. Again. He was just on a Winnipeg radio station and had an....ummmm....let''s call it an 'open and honest' dialogue with the host about the CBA impasse HERE.

"Both sides are being really stubborn right now..."
"I think 20% of the players are going to vote yes 'cause they're pushing 40, the other 80% need to play football...."
"I think we'll miss a max of a week of training camp..."
"I think we're asking for a bit too much right now..."


Waiting for the fallout on this He's issued a Twitter apology to his union brothers (although I do respect his desire to play football).

WCJ, I think the next contract will be higher for the reasons outlined. Better infrastructure + expansion (Ottawa and possibly Halifax) = better attendance and TV numbers. I don't see a decline in the value of TV contracts from sports leagues anytime soon. As for a possible strike? This will be forgotten by the end of this season, let alone 4 and 1/2 years from now when the contract is up for renewal.


DH :cool:
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WestCoastJoe
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David wrote:Uh oh. Andrew Harris has put foot his foot in his mouth. Again. He was just on a Winnipeg radio station and had an....ummmm....let''s call it an 'open and honest' dialogue with the host about the CBA impasse HERE.

"Both sides are being really stubborn right now..."
"I think 20% of the players are going to vote yes 'cause they're pushing 40, the other 80% need to play football...."
"I think we'll miss a max of a week of training camp..."
"I think we're asking for a bit too much right now..."


Waiting for the fallout on this He's issued a Twitter apology to his union brothers (although I do respect his desire to play football).

WCJ, I think the net contract will be higher for the reasons outlined. Better infrastructure + expansion (Ottawa and possibly Halifax) = better attendance and TV numbers. I don't see a decline in the value of TV contracts from sports leagues anytime soon. As for a possible strike? This will be forgotten by the end of this season, let alone 4 and 1/2 years from now when the contract is up for renewal.


DH :cool:
Andrew speaks his mind. That is both good and dangerous. We saw it last year. No guile. Forthright. The truth as he sees it.

Andrew runs through minefields carrying the football. Fearless. Speaking his mind is much the same thing.

David, I have high hopes for my favourite pro sports league. Wishful thinking even.

A strike that upsets the schedule, costs of TC, etc., would be a grievous blow to the CFL. A long term shutdown might spell the end of the CFL. If all the good happens, wishful thinking, then our league will continue to strengthen. But it is very vulnerable. I see the TV deal as a business venture, a test by TSN, that they were willing to do this time. They are hopeful, but future deals depend on this one, with no setbacks for the league. I hope Andrew is right. And I hope his brothers forgive him for speaking his mind.
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Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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Hawkballer 14 wrote:A "Yes" strike vote by the players would be bad.

An actual players strike would be catastrophic, would completely undo the progress made over the last 3-5 years. Would put the league back on life support.

In labour negotiations when a strike vote is held the result is usually at least 85% in favour. It's essential that a strike vote is overwhelmingly in favour of "yes" regardless of whether the union actually uses it or not. A "no" strike vote effectively strips a union of any negotiating powers.
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KnowItAll
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Hambone wrote: . A "no" strike vote effectively strips a union of any negotiating powers.
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David wrote:Uh oh. Andrew Harris has put foot his foot in his mouth. Again. He was just on a Winnipeg radio station and had an....ummmm....let''s call it an 'open and honest' dialogue with the host about the CBA impasse HERE.

"Both sides are being really stubborn right now..."
"I think 20% of the players are going to vote yes 'cause they're pushing 40, the other 80% need to play football...."
"I think we'll miss a max of a week of training camp..."
"I think we're asking for a bit too much right now..."


Waiting for the fallout on this He's issued a Twitter apology to his union brothers (although I do respect his desire to play football).

WCJ, I think the next contract will be higher for the reasons outlined. Better infrastructure + expansion (Ottawa and possibly Halifax) = better attendance and TV numbers. I don't see a decline in the value of TV contracts from sports leagues anytime soon. As for a possible strike? This will be forgotten by the end of this season, let alone 4 and 1/2 years from now when the contract is up for renewal.


DH :cool:
Have to say that I didn't perceive Andrew inserting his foot into his mouth on that interview. It seemed mild, and he seemed restrained and reasonable. I don't think it's inflammatory to say that 80% of the players want to play football, and that, likely the same percentage of owners also want to see this settled and move on to TC and the season. He praised Mark Cohon and suggested that a compromise, middle-point settlement would be ideal. I thought he handled himself well. If he apologized to his brethren for not spouting the party line, I don't think he needed to; he avoided a stereotypical response--not a hanging offense--and, as a result, came off with much greater credibility. No one expects the PA to get everything they're asking for. My view is that most players probably feel the same way as Harris and won't hold it against him that he didn't just parrot the CFLPA spokesperson of the day.
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MikeAK
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Yeah, I thought he was direct and honest. Probably spoke in such a way that represents the majority of the members views. I think he later apologized because it wasn't the usual preaching from the universal union members handbook and because of that received flak from inside the PA. I also agree with what he had to say about the strike vote. I don't see a majority yes vote. Harris is right about 80% needing to play football. We all live within our means and these players are no different. I can't imagine there are many of them who can sit at home not earning an income for too long.
Hawkballer 14
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MikeAK wrote:Yeah, I thought he was direct and honest. Probably spoke in such a way that represents the majority of the members views. I think he later apologized because it wasn't the usual preaching from the universal union members handbook and because of that received flak from inside the PA. I also agree with what he had to say about the strike vote. I don't see a majority yes vote. Harris is right about 80% needing to play football. We all live within our means and these players are no different. I can't imagine there are many of them who can sit at home not earning an income for too long.
Huge props to Andrew Harris.

What Mike said, plus players love to play the game. They need that adrenaline rush that comes with perfoming in front of 17K+ people once a week.
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http://www.thesudburystar.com/2014/05/2 ... fore-storm
CFL labour dispute hits calm after storm

By Kirk Penton, Winnipeg Sun

Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:50:35 EDT PM

We have reached the calm after the storm in the CFL labour talks.

It's the point that occurs during most collective bargaining agreement negotiations where there is one day of news releases, strong talk and hurt feelings, and then nothing for a few days afterwards. There is still plenty of time for an agreement to be reached and for training camps to begin on time, but it looks like the players are going to make the owners sweat a bit.

Both sides have something to give, and now fans will sit back and wait for them to meet somewhere in the middle.

There was a telling conversation on Winnipeg radio Friday night, when B.C. Lions running back Andrew Harris told CJOB's Jim Toth that the players are asking for "a bit too much." Harris was obviously admonished for his statement -- he was even hearing it from his own teammates -- because on Saturday he wrote the following on his Twitter account: "My apologies to fellow @CFLPA members. Lesson learned when putting the heart of one ahead of business for all. #united."

If that's how one veteran Canadian CFLer feels, how do you think other players with weaker ties to the league and to the country are going to feel after a few pay cheques don't come in?

A football player's career lasts only so long and it's difficult to see the players standing strong as a group for an extended period of time. That's why you can count on there being football at some point this summer, even if it is delayed by a few weeks.

Not only will players get the itch to do what they train six months of the year to do, but owners like David Braley and Bob Young have poured millions into the CFL. Many say if it weren't for Braley there might not be a league today. Since most of the league's owners have the financial wherewithal to outlast the players, a few more million in losses isn't going to cause them to give in to the players. That's what people who have been in the CFL for years are saying behind the scenes, anyway. There's no way the players are going to be able to topple the deep-pocketed owners over the long haul.

As much as the players deserve more money -- they do, and what the league is offering would give them that -- the owners who have helped keep the league afloat should be rewarded for their patience. Some might view that as the rich getting richer, but no one is getting rich in the CFL. It's no secret Toronto and Hamilton lose money year after year.

Teams are building new and better stadiums for their players, which costs the franchises a varying degree of cash due to public funding, and attendance figures aren't exactly skyrocketing.

Montreal doesn't sell out anymore. Toronto still attracts family and friends. Hamilton hasn't been a big draw for years. Winnipeg couldn't sell out its brand new stadium after the 2013 home opener and season-ticket sales are down big time this year. Calgary does well only when the Roughriders are in town. Edmonton's attendance took a big dip last year. And B.C. wasn't exactly packing them in, either. The Roughriders, of course, are the exception to the rule.

That's looking at the situation from a glass-half-empty approach, but it's something to consider. When commissioner Mark Cohon says every November that the league is doing well, he's still speaking relatively.

The owners told the players they would revisit revenue sharing when they gave it up during the 2010 negotiations, but so far during these talks it has been a non-starter. Therefore, the owners should throw the players a bone and increase the cap by more than the $50,000 they're offering after the first year of the deal. The $400,000 hike off the hop is a good one, but it should be bigger after that. The owners should also put it in writing that revenue sharing will be a part of the next CBA in one form or another.

The players, meanwhile, should allow the league to continue to grow for a while. Let's see what the revenues are during the new TSN deal. Enjoy a serious bump in the salary cap and fewer practices with pads, and then if the league continues to flourish you will get your revenue sharing back in four years.

The solution seems painfully obvious. Now that the barbs have been thrown and the terms have made public, all that's left to do is get a deal done.

Get back to the table.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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WestCoastJoe
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There was a telling conversation on Winnipeg radio Friday night, when B.C. Lions running back Andrew Harris told CJOB's Jim Toth that the players are asking for "a bit too much." Harris was obviously admonished for his statement -- he was even hearing it from his own teammates -- because on Saturday he wrote the following on his Twitter account: "My apologies to fellow @CFLPA members. Lesson learned when putting the heart of one ahead of business for all. #united."
Harris may have crystallized sentiments, and he may have helped prevent a strike. His union will certainly be unhappy with him, for speaking his mind, and telling it as he sees it.
Not only will players get the itch to do what they train six months of the year to do, but owners like David Braley and Bob Young have poured millions into the CFL. Many say if it weren't for Braley there might not be a league today. Since most of the league's owners have the financial wherewithal to outlast the players, a few more million in losses isn't going to cause them to give in to the players. That's what people who have been in the CFL for years are saying behind the scenes, anyway. There's no way the players are going to be able to topple the deep-pocketed owners over the long haul.
At many times the CFL has been on life support, and IMO it still is. Braley support.
As much as the players deserve more money -- they do, and what the league is offering would give them that -- the owners who have helped keep the league afloat should be rewarded for their patience. Some might view that as the rich getting richer, but no one is getting rich in the CFL. It's no secret Toronto and Hamilton lose money year after year.
Teams are building new and better stadiums for their players, which costs the franchises a varying degree of cash due to public funding, and attendance figures aren't exactly skyrocketing.

Montreal doesn't sell out anymore. Toronto still attracts family and friends. Hamilton hasn't been a big draw for years. Winnipeg couldn't sell out its brand new stadium after the 2013 home opener and season-ticket sales are down big time this year. Calgary does well only when the Roughriders are in town. Edmonton's attendance took a big dip last year. And B.C. wasn't exactly packing them in, either. The Roughriders, of course, are the exception to the rule.
The owners told the players they would revisit revenue sharing when they gave it up during the 2010 negotiations, but so far during these talks it has been a non-starter. Therefore, the owners should throw the players a bone and increase the cap by more than the $50,000 they're offering after the first year of the deal. The $400,000 hike off the hop is a good one, but it should be bigger after that. The owners should also put it in writing that revenue sharing will be a part of the next CBA in one form or another.

The players, meanwhile, should allow the league to continue to grow for a while. Let's see what the revenues are during the new TSN deal. Enjoy a serious bump in the salary cap and fewer practices with pads, and then if the league continues to flourish you will get your revenue sharing back in four years.
Pretty much how I see it.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Shi Zi Mi
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The strength of any union is it's solidarity within the membership......Harris' words erodes that solidarity and weakens the union's position significantly......and you can be sure the league executive are smiling from ear to ear upon hearing Harris' interview.
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WestCoastJoe
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Harris:

"We deserve a bigger piece of the pie."

"We're the reason that ratings have been so high."

"The brand of football on the field is better than it ever has been."

"I hope that we can meet in the middle somewhere soon."

"I don't want to miss any of the season, and I know the fans are the same way."

"I think the majority on both sides want to get it done. We don't want any animosity."

"Guys want to be treated fairly."

"I think we are asking a bit too much in volatile markets that are struggling."
............

Sounds pretty level headed to me. But of course he will not be poopular with the union.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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DanoT
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When I first read about "Harris putting his foot in his mouth" I thought oh no he has ripped the Comish a new A-hole. So I am very happy that he was so level headed.

And yes I do think that Harris' statements will make it easier for some to vote against the strike because Harris has pretty much now publicly stated how he will vote.

Often times in a labour dispute there is one key person who steps up with the plan/proposal that provides the compromise or face saving position or whatever that effects the ultimate settlement. I thought that that person might be Braley given the amount that he has at stake as the owner of 2 teams. Maybe it will turn out to be Andrew Harris. :popcorn:
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Shi Zi Mi wrote:The strength of any union is it's solidarity within the membership......Harris' words erodes that solidarity and weakens the union's position significantly......and you can be sure the league executive are smiling from ear to ear upon hearing Harris' interview.
I don't know. I think everyone knows the union party line, along with the fact that their opening position is untenable. Everyone also knows that this dance is entirely predictable and, at least to me, somewhat boring. Management says "we can't afford it;" union says "we demand what we're asking for." Ho hum. Any player saying that the union position is entirely justified and management's is completely unreasonable is simply written off as a union stooge, who likely doesn't believe half of what he's saying. So I don't see Harris's comments as weakening the PA's position or, for that matter, as having any effect one way or the other on the outcome of this impasse. I do see his comments, though, as a refreshing change from the usual boilerplate, and I applaud him for his honesty and realistic perspective. In a sort of perverse and ironic way, I think his views may put the players in a more favorable light in the ongoing to'ing and fro'ing. He did say, after all, that a compromise position would be best, which means he's not saying that the players should just accept what the league is offering. This is just common sense, and is the way most labor conflicts are eventually resolved.
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Paul McCallum was on the Team 1040 this afternoon. Feels that there won't be a training camp given the state of negotiations right now. As to the strike vote, he thinks it will be 90% in favour of strike action.
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Toppy Vann
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The CFL has accomplished its prime objective with Cohon's well timed attack on the players' proposal. Fans are on the CFL's side.

But the price the CFL might pay in a trouncing of the union is a real loss of player loyalty if players choose to just play and fulfill their contracts but screw all other things outside of their contractual obligations. The fan non-support could lead to a reversal of what fans have come to know in the CFL is how easily accessible these guys are.

What would be nice but not likely to happen is if the CFL would settle with a raise that works for them this year plus commits the CFL and PA to engage an independent consulting firm who could confidentially review all the teams financial statements and propose something over the next season that might work for both sides.
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