Andrew Harris

[South Pender]

Harris is absolutely a victim...a victim of a under gunned OC and a ridiculous OLine...how he has handled things is far from purrfect, but at least he cares, and at least he's passionate about winning...and Blitz, be honest, the Lions only act to "fix" their offence was to bring in Logan...how would you view that in Harris' shoes, huh??? You have the worst OLine in recent memory and an OC that is overmatched and embattled year after year, and the only move is to change the RB??? WTF???

As Cougar Country aptly pointed out, Harris is not only a SPECIAL skill position player, he's CANADIAN...you don't want to point the finger at him or Lulay...but that's exactly what the Lions have done...they brought in Pierce to point the finger at Travis (beyond ridiculous) and brought in Logan to point the finger at Harris...

Again as CC said, the egos of Wally and Chapdelaine have been the biggest problems with the Lions over the last decade...they are STUBBORN to a fault and point out at everybody else except themselves. The problems on this team are OBVIOUS beyond description and we have done nothing except bring back the Lion's Alumni Assocation...Buono should be embarrassed.

Have to strongly agree with Blitz on this one. In my opinion, Harris is absolutely not a victim. He's been treated extremely well by Wally and the Lions for a long time now (since before he became a team member) and has shown some really immature behaviour. Second, it seems like conspiracy theory to me (making accusations without any real evidence) to suggest that Pierce was brought in to humiliate Lulay and Logan to humiliate Harris. I see the addition of Pierce as preparing for a very-possible contingency (something Shi Zi Mi seems to think Wally doesn't plan for) that Lulay could get injured. After all, he did just that last year, and, as it turned out, did so again this season. So, in my opinion, Wally was looking to handle a very real negative possibility. As for Logan, evidently he called Wally, and Wally, seeing our ground game going nowhere (and not only because of a weak O-line), thought it might help the running game to have Logan for the last part of the season. What was he supposed to do? Worry that Andrew Harris might be miffed and pass on a chance to strengthen the team--which, after all, is Wally's job?

Also have to disagree that Wally's ego has been "the biggest problems with the Lions over the last decade." This is an incredibly odd assertion given that the Lions, under Wally, have been the most successful team in the CFL over the last decade (actually tied with Mtl. with 114 wins, or an average of 11.4 wins per season, including 5 of the 10 years where we had more wins than any team in the West, and another year when we were tied for most wins in the West, and 4 of the 10 when we had more wins than any club in the CFL), and for 5 of those 10 years, Chapdelaine was OC. So, are we to believe that, although the team's had really terrible management and coaching over this decade, we somehow managed to, on average, be the best team in the CFL (tied with Mtl)? WOW! If true, I guess that If we'd only had a decent GM, coach, and OC (i.e., with smaller egos), we would have been even better than the best in the past decade! Frankly, given his success, I think Wally should be very proud of his record with the Lions.

[Blitz]

You are correct MLF that the only personel move the Lions made to improve their running game was to bring in Logan last week. Wally looked to make a trade for an offensive lineman but the price was too high. It was too late in the season anyway. Offensive line requires so much cohesion.

The big question is whether we should have brought in Logan or not. No doubt it has made Harris very unhappy and he was not happy before. However, he was happy in 2011 and 2012, as he should have been. The only major change on our Leos from those two seasons and this one is our offensive line.

If we don't win a playoff game, then the decision to bring in Logan probably works more as a negative, at least as they stand now. If we do win a playoff game, then it was a positive move for the team, if not Harris.

Like all players on a pro football team, there is usually someone behind you pushing to take your job. Andrew Harris really didn't have that and perhaps he thought that is the way it would always be.

Harris doesn't have a bad average per run actually. He is averaging 4.8 yards per carry. This will probably surprise many ...its the same average per run (4.8 yds per carry) that Harris had in our 2011 Grey Cup season. Its just that last year he led the league in average yards per carry at 5.9 yds. Cornish is having such a lights out season at 7.2 yards per carry that he almost makes all other running backs look average this season.

I think we tend to focus on the negative too often. They say we have 40,000 negative thoughts a day although we are unaware of most of them. I do not have any major criticism of the play of Harris this season. He was still a key player in our offence. There were no easy answers to improving our running game for this season with our offensive line situation as it was and still is.....most importantly the short gains too often on first down, setting up second and long.

Harris is a Canadian and that really does help the ratio and he is still 3rd in the CFL in rushing and 4th in yards from scrimmage. I guess Wally either wanted to give Harris some perspective or he felt he had to do something to get our running game turned around or both and bringing back a speed back in Logan was his solution. It could be the impetus to get Harris out of his funk or make it worse.

However one thing I learned the hard way is that if you tolerate things too much from a player or put up with a me first attitude from a player for too long it hurts a team in the long run, no matter how good he is. I think Harris is talented and he just set the bar for himself and the team too high and was too used to success. Not really sure how this will play out. I hope it doesn't have a bad ending. But you can' run a team catering to anyone.

I respect your thoughts and think I understand them even though I may not totally agree. Rarely are things black and white anyway and often things turn out differently than we expect them too.

[notahomer]

......This is an odd assertion given that the Lions have been probably the most successful team in the CFL over the last decade, and this has been true of the time Chapdelaine has been with the team too. So, somehow, the team's had real substantive problems with management and coaching, but has probably (I'd have to check this or get B.C. Fan to do so) had the best record over that time period. If only we hadn't hired Wally; who knows how well this team would have done! Frankly, I think Wally should be proud of his record with the Lions.

I won't argue the Lions have been one of the more successful teams over the past decade. What has hurt is the Lions were actually close to climbing out of the negative hole we've been in and would have been at .500 for our win/loss over the lifetime of the franchise. However, we have since gone on to lose the next two games (or was it three?) ........

I'm so looking forward to the game that should happen next season where the Lions go from an all time losing record to an all time winning record. Deep down, it doesn't matter. There were lots of years long ago where the Lions lost lots of games. But as you state, South P, Wally should be proud of his record with the Lions. He wasn't part OF MANY of those wins over the decades but he's certainly been part of a few recently......

[InUrFace]

I'm in agreement with everything MexicoLionFan has been commenting on. I feel the total same way. This is straight up all
Wally's doing. As a GM you fix problems you find solutions and you get them done before they get worse. In his case he has taken to long to fix the Oline. The biggest problem on this team. I believe he think hes lost his edge this year. It doesnt matter of all the wins in hte past that he has under his belt we can put him on that high pedestal all day talking about it until we are blue in the face. Past is just that the past. Future and in the now is whats important. Wally is still taking control of this team threw MB ...MB isnt calling the shots. As much as some of you think he is...hes not. Hes not even a real coach to me. Feels more like a assistant coach. Dont ask me why I feel that way ...his actions speaks for himself. Chap ...is also Wally's yes guy.
Chap has no clue to this day about Offense ...hes more predictable than ever before. This is where I laugh ..when MB was asked about Buck on the radio Monday ...he said Buck is learning the Offense still ...this is a joke in its self....come on people the offense has been the same for years now the same as when Buck was a starter here. Excuses excuses. Im also tired of you guys praising Chap MB and Wally ...enough is enough. what are you all Wallys yes guys to ...and on his pay roll. You guys are a joke. I dont have to answer to anyone comment about how you say im wrong. As the action on the field and off the field talks for me. Off season MB did nothing in those mini camps. ...where was the competition to fight for your position. Instead he said these are my guys. What real coach does that. Ok thats the past. What has he done now in the present. Nothing. Wally nothing Chap nothing. I dont understand why you fans ... or wonnabe fans. Why you ask...I say wonnabe....cause real fans want to see change so they see wins ...when you so called fans stick to the same o same o and feels nothing wrong ...I think you probably want Wally back as a HC too. We need to see major change ...if MB is a real HC he needs to get rid of Chap close his ears to Wally ...at the end of the day routine... and come up with his own set of and make this team his team as Wally did many years ago. GM is GM ....HC is HC. GM cant be both and thats whats going on. Enough said. LU you better believe he wants change with coaching staff and real fans also wants change. Im hoping we get blown out in the rest of these games. Or change will not come next year. As Wally and his stubborn ways will keep his country club in tact ...those on here go against me for change ....go get your membership for that country club to ...oops guess your all ready one.

[TheLionKing]

I'm in agreement with everything MexicoLionFan has been commenting on. I feel the total same way. This is straight up all
Wally's doing. As a GM you fix problems you find solutions and you get them done before they get worse. In his case he has taken to long to fix the Oline.

I take exception to your statement that the offensive line is fixed. It's still a sieve.

[ziggy]

This thread reminds me of some of the old Area 51 threads.

[Rammer]

Wonder if a good O line would have saved us from the 8 turnovers. I think not.

Those 8 turnovers weren't on the OL, although perhaps the pressure that DeMarco felt was a factor, and that may or may not be pointed to the OL. But least we forget, there were an additional two TO's that were taken away due to penalty. That is a complete meltdown on the O, which haven't won the Lions a single game this season. If the D doesn't play up to its capabilities, then the Lions are in tough, even tougher now without the experience of Lulay.

[David]

These past 2 games has featured some of the best pass blocking from this unit that we've seen for most of this season.


DH

[DanoT]

I'm in agreement with everything MexicoLionFan has been commenting on. I feel the total same way. This is straight up all
Wally's doing. As a GM you fix problems you find solutions and you get them done before they get worse. In his case he has taken to long to fix the Oline.

I take exception to your statement that the offensive line is fixed. It's still a sieve.

You are mis-interpreting InUrFace's comment here. He is NOT saying that the O-line has been fixed, he is saying that it should have been fixed by now, but it has taken too long and nothing has been done.

I think Wally has tried to improve the O line by acquiring Myddelton, a back up from Calgary who hasn't shown much, and trying to acquire Rottier from the Esks, but Wally felt that the price that Hervey was asking was too high. The facts are that there is not an abundance of talented O lineman around, especially NI lineman and bringing in Import O lineman means dumping Imports at other starting positions and thus you need quality NI guys to start elsewhere. So do you bench Taylor or Moore or some other Import on D like Banks or Bighill or Marsh etc and replace them with what qualified NI?
Esks and Bombers also have weak O lines which is further proof that quality O lineman are in short supply. Example: the Bombers recently traded an all star DE, Alex Hall, to the Riders for a back up O lineman who will now be a starter in Winnipeg. THERE IS NO EASY FIX HERE.

The reality is that the Lions are stuck with what they've got as a starting O line for the rest of the season and hopefully for next year Fabien recovers and can play, the junior player (is his name Tyler from Virginia, I can't remember the details) works out, or maybe Lions property, Danny Watkins is released from his NFL team and decides to play in the CFL next season.

[MexicoLionFan]

You are correct MLF that the only personel move the Lions made to improve their running game was to bring in Logan last week. Wally looked to make a trade for an offensive lineman but the price was too high. It was too late in the season anyway. Offensive line requires so much cohesion.

The big question is whether we should have brought in Logan or not. No doubt it has made Harris very unhappy and he was not happy before. However, he was happy in 2011 and 2012, as he should have been. The only major change on our Leos from those two seasons and this one is our offensive line.

If we don't win a playoff game, then the decision to bring in Logan probably works more as a negative, at least as they stand now. If we do win a playoff game, then it was a positive move for the team, if not Harris.

Like all players on a pro football team, there is usually someone behind you pushing to take your job. Andrew Harris really didn't have that and perhaps he thought that is the way it would always be.

Harris doesn't have a bad average per run actually. He is averaging 4.8 yards per carry. This will probably surprise many ...its the same average per run (4.8 yds per carry) that Harris had in our 2011 Grey Cup season. Its just that last year he led the league in average yards per carry at 5.9 yds. Cornish is having such a lights out season at 7.2 yards per carry that he almost makes all other running backs look average this season.

I think we tend to focus on the negative too often. They say we have 40,000 negative thoughts a day although we are unaware of most of them. I do not have any major criticism of the play of Harris this season. He was still a key player in our offence. There were no easy answers to improving our running game for this season with our offensive line situation as it was and still is.....most importantly the short gains too often on first down, setting up second and long.

Harris is a Canadian and that really does help the ratio and he is still 3rd in the CFL in rushing and 4th in yards from scrimmage. I guess Wally either wanted to give Harris some perspective or he felt he had to do something to get our running game turned around or both and bringing back a speed back in Logan was his solution. It could be the impetus to get Harris out of his funk or make it worse.

However one thing I learned the hard way is that if you tolerate things too much from a player or put up with a me first attitude from a player for too long it hurts a team in the long run, no matter how good he is. I think Harris is talented and he just set the bar for himself and the team too high and was too used to success. Not really sure how this will play out. I hope it doesn't have a bad ending. But you can' run a team catering to anyone.

I respect your thoughts and think I understand them even though I may not totally agree. Rarely are things black and white anyway and often things turn out differently than we expect them too.

Excellent post Blitz, and I understand and agree with almost everything you say...the only difference is that I see the Lion's MGT and coaches as the source material for some of the behavioural problems on the team, i.e. Harris...as Dano said, with the state of Canadian OLinemen around the league, there is no easy fix to this offensive problem, that's why missing on so many OLinemen draft picks has really hurt us...but targeting Harris for the problems is just plain wrong...I like Stefan Logan a lot...he's a good, tough football player and will help us, but he isn't what we actually need...the source of the offensive problems for years has been Chapdelaine, he truly is an embattled coach year after year...its time to move in another direction...if Paul LaPolice does not get a HC job in the offseason, he should definitely be asked to take over our offence...Travis and Harris would be in good hands with LaPolice...and its time for Kelly Bates to have a MUCH larger role with the Lions...OLine Coach for sure, and maybe Asst. OC...Kelly has a great future as a CFL coach, and has a very,very bright mind...on O, its time for Chapdelaine and Dorazio to go...as Joe says, we should have a lot of respect and appreciation for CFL Asst Coaches because they work so hard, care so much and have so little security...and I agree...but enough is enough Wally with this offence...it time for a MAJOR change in direction before there is NO ONE left to play QB here...

And thanks to everyone for their comments...I don't mean to attack anyone...all of you have intelligent, valuable comments to share...I just see what I see so clearly and need to let it out...

[ziggy]

Wonder if a good O line would have saved us from the 8 turnovers. I think not.

Those 8 turnovers weren't on the OL, although perhaps the pressure that DeMarco felt was a factor, and that may or may not be pointed to the OL. But least we forget, there were an additional two TO's that were taken away due to penalty. That is a complete meltdown on the O, which haven't won the Lions a single game this season. If the D doesn't play up to its capabilities, then the Lions are in tough, even tougher now without the experience of Lulay.

Absolutely agree Rammer. I thought the O line played good enough, but the rest of the offence looked like they had just come from a greased pig contest and didn't have time to wash their hands.

[TheLionKing]

Totally agree with MLF. Same thing every year

[ducepot]

MLF you are right,I have little football experience ,but its pretty easy for me to predict the Lions Offence.I watch some of the games at work with a co-worker,who by the way is an ex NI O lineman ,that played for the TiCats and Argos.He says the Lions main porblem is Chapdelaine and his highschool Offence.

[Sir Purrcival]

Totally agree with MLF. Same thing every year

Add me to the cast who agrees with MLF

[notahomer]

Totally agree with MLF. Same thing every year

Well MLF must be consistent or is MLF consistently right?