Lions 24 - Riders 22 Post Game Stats and Comments

[DanoT]

With the Lions having trouble with the inside running game, they should just use dump passes , screens etc. The QB needs to have plays where he looks down field for his first read and if it is not there, don't look for a second read, just throw a short release valve pass to Harris and let him make a LB miss in the open field.

[Hambone]

One thing that is missing from this team is the running game. The interior of the O-line isn't opening any holes for Andrew Harris, and the only rushing success has come on sweeps and misdirection plays to the outside. To win the West against the Stamps and Riders, the Lions need to re-establish the running game that looked sharp last year and in the earlier part of this year. That may require the QB to keep the ball more on the zone read to keep ends from crashing down on Harris. Quick-hitters, counters and traps can also add variety. The draw play, used successfully today, is also a nice weapon. However they try to bolster the run game, they need better blocking from the centre and guard positions.

I don't know if it's the design of the plays called for the respective backs or something else but it just seems to me that every running play for Harris is slow to develop. They either seem to be a delayed handoff or once he gets the ball he hestitates and briefly dances a bit presumably looking for a hole to open. Conversely when Brown gets the call there doesn't seem to be that same hesitation or delay much like the way he returns kicks. He seems to take the ball and hit the line hard and fast. Maybe it's a sign that Harris isn't as instinctive or decisive as he needs to be to be more effective running inside? Hesitating can give the OL an extra second to open something up but it also gives the D an extra second to react and close gaps.

[Blitz]

One thing that is missing from this team is the running game. The interior of the O-line isn't opening any holes for Andrew Harris, and the only rushing success has come on sweeps and misdirection plays to the outside. To win the West against the Stamps and Riders, the Lions need to re-establish the running game that looked sharp last year and in the earlier part of this year. That may require the QB to keep the ball more on the zone read to keep ends from crashing down on Harris. Quick-hitters, counters and traps can also add variety. The draw play, used successfully today, is also a nice weapon. However they try to bolster the run game, they need better blocking from the centre and guard positions.

I don't know if it's the design of the plays called for the respective backs or something else but it just seems to me that every running play for Harris is slow to develop. They either seem to be a delayed handoff or once he gets the ball he hestitates and briefly dances a bit presumably looking for a hole to open. Conversely when Brown gets the call there doesn't seem to be that same hesitation or delay much like the way he returns kicks. He seems to take the ball and hit the line hard and fast. Maybe it's a sign that Harris isn't as instinctive or decisive as he needs to be to be more effective running inside? Hesitating can give the OL an extra second to open something up but it also gives the D an extra second to react and close gaps.

Harris got into a pattern of hesitating and briefly dancing to set up his blocks or to wait for a hole to open. However, there are times when that is hurting his game. Yesterday he was even trying to pick his way on a toss sweep wheeas Brown just used speed and cut upfield. Therre are times when holes are not open for Harris but other times when the hole has closed due to his hesitation. I donèt buy the problem is a vanilla scheme. Most CFL teams are just running the zone read and blocking it in different ways.

Calgary does not do a lot of innovative things in their running game. They usually just go zone read and let Cornish find a hole. However, Cornsh hits the line of scrimmage with burst and makes his cut. He also breaks a lot of tackles or makes people miss and he is very tough to bring down. I wonder if the extra weight that Harris put on this season is a factor.

We know that defenses this season have blitzed a lot for two reasons - to shut down the run and to get quick pressure on the quarterback. Last season we led the league in rushing and we averaged the most yards of offence per game. Defenses have blitzed more often as a general trend but it made the most sense against us because Harris was the focal point of our offence and Lulayès strength was his scrambling ability. Teams have also focused on covering Harris out of the backfield on passes and spying Lulay, before he was injured on runs.

The refrains that we needed to run Harris more and throw to Harris more and rollout more sounded good...easy to say.... but when a defense is doing everything to stop those elements of our offence they are weakening themselves elsewhere and we needed to exploit that. However, too often we were not able to.

Yesterday Harris was covered like a blanket most times when we swung him out and Saskatchewan took him down for no gain when we threw to him.

Of course we need to run Harris some to take away the defense just pinning their ears back but when he only gets a yard or two time and again its hard to keep running Harris. I agree that better interior blocking would help Hambone and our run game really was hurt when we lost Fabian. We also have cut down the number of plays in our offence per game. We did that to simplify things more for Lulay and our offence a few games back.

However, it seems like a long time since we have seen Harris make a great cut or break a tackle like he used to while Jon Cornish does that regularly. As for the notion that we do not use Harris enough, going into the game against Regina, we were 3rd in rushing attempts in the CFL and Harris had only 19 less carries than Jon Cornish with Cornish averaging 1.7 more yards per carry than Harris.

Of course our recent lack of effectiveness can be blamed on the coaches (Bates and Dorazio design the run game and Chap just calls the plays) and the offensive line and when something isn't working well its usually a combination of factors but like you Hambone, I see a different Harris running the football a lot of the time this season.

[zark]

This is definitely the year for back ups. Some thanks should be given to Collaros and the Argos for beating the Stumps. Both games, the rookie beat the vet.

[David]

Congrats to Superman on tying the record for receptions, but I was happy to see Moore and Taylor have big games after getting mildly dissed earlier this week:

“I don’t think they’ll ever replace us, especially me, or what Arland did,” Simon said.

“Those guys are very good, and they’re very talented. But they have to make names for themselves. I don’t think it’s fair to compare Nick to myself or Courtney to Arland because me and Arland made our own legacies. I think it’s up to them to make theirs.”

The point of the exercise though was to get faster (cheaper) and better production at the position - not necessarily replace Geroy and Arland with Hall-Of-Famers or even future Hall-Of-Famers. Anyone else notice Geroy getting tracked down by Dante Marsh in the open field? The wouldn't have happened two or three years ago.


DH

[Lions4ever]

I certainly hope this week's practice includes a heavy dose of ball catching drills for the DBs. I realize they're DBs cuz they're not receivers, but it would be nice if they didn't react to gift INTs as if they've never seen a football before!

Great win tho'. My heart was pounding through my chest for a while.

[Blitz]

Toppy Vann wrote I am really liking Lapo - coaching corner on TSN especially his review of the panel dancing. He was the funniest when they did the dance showing what they thought of the Lions DEF dancing. Lapo described Garrett as a good "young" player who is 'high rep' meaning he was young and learning and he'd make mistakes but that he was wanting to be patient given his talent. Garrett going the wrong on play action fakes seemed to really rattle Durant.

If the Lions DEF had intercepted those 3 sure grabs Durant would have really been rattled and the Lions might have been in a better position to get a real leg up on them in the first half. Larose - not one INT and he says that it is not his role or some other crazy thing. Marsh missed one too and IIRC so did Parks - all 3 catchable balls and would have been huge lifts for the Lions and major deflators for their crowd and team. Larose's missed INT was b r u t a l. Marsh gets some slack as he's actually made INTs.

Toppy Vann

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I really like the LaPolice segment on TSN too Toppy Vann

Yesterday he pointed out a missed blocking assignment that led to a hit on our quarterback. Lumbala was lined up outside of Archibald as a tight end. Regina's outside linebacker was lined up at the line of scrimmage. Lumbala's primary assignment was to pick up the outside linebacker if he blitzed and to help out Archibald if he didn't. However, Lumbala helped out Archibald and the outside linebacker blitzed. Harris came over to block the outside linebacker. The outside linebacker was past Lumbala but Lumbala tried to help out anyway. Then Regina's inside linebacker, on delayed blitz, shot the gap that Lumbala had vacated with a straight uncontested shot at our quarterback. If Lumbala had stayed in his lane he would have picked up the delayed blitz. So he screwed up twice on the play.

Had Lumbala picked up the outside linebacker, Harris would have picked up the delayed blitz and the play would have had a good chance for offensive success. Instead blitz pickup (and it was not a scheme problem) by one player ruins a play, gets our quarterback hit and can ruin a drive.

Its those types of aspects of the game that LaPolice illustrates and what the average fan doesn't see that increases knowledge. I really enjoy the segment.

I'm still feeling the excitement of what Ullrich called the Miracle at Mosaic yesterday. To go into Mosaic with the situation that was presented and come out with a victory is such a positive feelings. Our coaches, who have come under some criticism lately deserve kudos too. We had a first time starting quarterback get it done and while DeMarco and our recievers have gotten a lot of credit deservedly Chap also had our backup quarterback developed and prepared to be successful and Stubler had our defence causing Durrant and Company all kinds of problems.

[South Pender]

“I don’t think they’ll ever replace us, especially me, or what Arland did,” Simon said.

“Those guys are very good, and they’re very talented. But they have to make names for themselves. I don’t think it’s fair to compare Nick to myself or Courtney to Arland because me and Arland made our own legacies. I think it’s up to them to make theirs.”

Jeez, did Geroy say that? What a shame. That really reduces my respect for his character. It shows a big head and appalling lack of class. Like 'I'm so fabulous that no one--even a talented younger player--could ever equal me' (more in his first sentence). That sucks. What he should have said was something along the lines of "these guys are very talented and will, in time, build their own legacy," which is different from his second sentence. It's his first sentence that's the worst. What he said may well be true, but it's in very poor taste to actually say it. What these guys don't seem to understand is that a little modesty makes them seem even greater whereas bragging reduces their stature in peoples' eyes.

I know, I know, Geroy was a great receiver, but it would be nice to see true modesty (or even false modesty!), as opposed to pure narcissism, accompany great talent for a change.

[WestCoastJoe]

Andrew Harris looks discouraged and confused in our running game.

IMO this young man is a special talent that is starting to waste away in our offence.

I have not spoken in his defence prior to now.

Every running back needs a hole to run through. How often does Andrew have that? The offence, from the design, to the practice, to the play call, to the blocking, creates holes.

Running game not working? I see blame being assigned to Harris. Not hitting the LOS with speed, dancing. So I am going to say, how about the coaching? Can I say that, on behalf of Andrew Harris? Well I started this thread, so I am going to say it. How about the coaching of the running game? Do we have a dynamic running game?

Could it be that Calgary has a better designed running game?

I feel I have to defend Andrew Harris. But after a while, I will stop defending him.

I am not going to claim any special expertise in designing a running game. I am not privy to the meetings of the coaching staff. I cannot assign the relative responsibilities of Chapdelaine, Dorazio and Bates in designing the running game and the game plan. But if an offence is serious about running the ball, might not it be advantageous to have 2 running backs occasionally? Both must be dangerous, to take away LBs keying on the one threat in the backfield. Might our featured running back get more than 7 carries in a game? Where is Harris? Right beside the QB, where he always is. How is Calgary getting large holes for Cornish? I will have to tape some of their games. How are the blocks set up? How is deception built in? How is surprise built in?

Andrew did not look slow or hesitant on that draw play. What was that? A draw play? Yes, a draw play that fooled the defence. And Glen Suitor was surprised. Surprised enough that he complimented Jacques Chapdelaine for the play call.

Defence of Andrew over, for the time being. Or maybe I will just let the criticism rain down on him, undefended, in an offence with a poor running game.

[Blitz]

Well we had the best running game in the CFL last season so something is different and the scheme hasn't changed so something isn't as good as it was last season. Not sure how much you could change the scheme. We use the zone read with 10 different ways of blocking it. We incorporate the quick toss and the cutback play, and the stretch read. We throw in the direct snap to Harris and the shovel on occasion. We are still 3rd in rushing attempts. Kelly Bates is the same coach of the running game in working with Dorazio.

What is different is that we have Kabongo starting in place of Hameister-Rees, who was a very underrated guard. We have a new center this season replacing a lot of experience at this crucial position and he makes the run blocking calls. Valli played a lot last season at guard but Fabian was playing very well at guard to start the season. There has been slippage in SArchibald's play. Harris came in 12 pounds heavier this season.

Most CFL teams, if not all CFL teams use a feature tailback. We probably use two backs (Harris and Lumbala or Harris and Brown) more than any CFL team in the league.

Defenses have also focused more on stopping the run this season and especially ours, since we led the league in that department last year. I see it more as a combination of line blocking and Harris using less burst and also not making people miss like last season, as other posters have pointed out. Its very easy to just point out its always a coaching problem because the coaches are always ultimately accountable.

I find it interesting that when we have a good game its all due to the players and when we don't play well the focus is on the coaching staff. Chap and Stubler have been heavily criticized when we don't play well but rarely receive credit when we do from some.

Wally brought in Buck and Wilson and stated more changes were coming if we didn't start playing better on the road and we just played the most inspired game on the road by far all season.

We just won a big game on the road against a very talented Riders team with a backup quarterback with very little experience and our leading receiver missing from the lineup. DeMarco did some very good things out there and credit is due to him but credit is also due to our coaches for getting him to the point of preparing him well for that first start.

Wally gets a ton of credit for developing quarterbacks and his system of talent evaluation and practice rep time has been part of that formula. But Wally never has coached his quarterbacks. Hufnagel, Cortez, Burratto for a brief period, and Chapdelaine have been the coaches who have played the key roles in the 'quarterback factory'.

[WestCoastJoe]

Blitz, I am not going to go back and forth with you anymore. You are assigning blame to Harris. So be it. You are defending the coaches. So be it.

I have defended Lulay in the past. I just defended Harris.

No more defence by me.

Have at them.

I have complimented our coaches on many occasions, including Stubler and Chapdelaine.

IMO our running game is poor.

Since I started this thread, I felt some obligation to express my strongly held views on Andrew Harris.

[South Pender]

I never did think of Harris as a truly great running back, and that's the reason I argued in the off-season for a big, fast, tough import RB who could drive tacklers back. Harris lacks Kory Sheets' speed (4.39) and Jon Cornish's power and burst. He didn't get the training that these two guys did at big-time U.S. football programs--Sheets at Purdue and Cornish at Kansas, and his football instincts may not be quite as refined. Still, I like Harris, and do see him as an asset to our team, but don't see him as an ideal feature back. In many ways, Harris would thrive as a slot because he seems able to do things in space and can catch the football.

The problem with the running game IMO is not primarily Harris (although it is to some extent), but rather a very substandard O-line. A better back might do better than Harris has done with these three interior guys in front of him, but I doubt that he'd be great either. Similarly, if you put a dominating O-line, capable of getting real push, in front of Harris, he'd definitely look adequate, although perhaps not quite world-class, and we'd be able to get yards between the tackles, something necessary at regular intervals to keep the heat off the QB. In my opinion (probably not shared by many), Tim Brown is the better back between the tackles. A better version of Brown is Winnipeg's Chad Simpson, who, at 5-9, 216, has a fairly similar body form, although packing 25 more lbs., but has 4.42 speed and a 5.8 yds./carry average, as opposed to Harris's 4.9.

But at the end of the day, it's the line. I don't blame Wally/Bene for this. They did get Fabien and were counting on one more year from Reid. If we were now working with Norman and Fabien at guard, Reid at centre, and our two tackles, our ground game, IMO, would be just fine, as this unit rounded into form working with one another.

[B.C.FAN]

My criticism was directed more at the interior of the offensive line and at the coaching staff for the run calls and blocking schemes than at Harris. Every RB would love the holes that Cornish gets. Harris usually hits a wall of humanity whenever the Lions try to run to the A gap.

Blitz touched on this to some degree. Defences are scheming to take away what has worked for Harris. The holes aren't there in the inside run game and he is being picked up by linebackers whenever he tries to get out of the backfield. The Lions need to introduce some new wrinkles. This season can be broken into two:

Harris rushing stats:
Games 1-6: 83 rushes, 459 yards, 5.5-yard average, 3 100-yard games
Games 7-12: 55 rushes, 218 yards, 4.0-yard average, 0 100-yard games

For Harris and the Lions, 2013 success will depend largely on how well they can run the ball in the final 6 games of the regular season.

[TheLionKing]

I certainly hope this week's practice includes a heavy dose of ball catching drills for the DBs. I realize they're DBs cuz they're not receivers, but it would be nice if they didn't react to gift INTs as if they've never seen a football before!

Great win tho'. My heart was pounding through my chest for a while.

Especially #27 JR Larose. He has the worst hands of any DB's in the years I've been watching football.

[TheLionKing]

“I don’t think they’ll ever replace us, especially me, or what Arland did,” Simon said.

“Those guys are very good, and they’re very talented. But they have to make names for themselves. I don’t think it’s fair to compare Nick to myself or Courtney to Arland because me and Arland made our own legacies. I think it’s up to them to make theirs.”

Jeez, did Geroy say that? What a shame. That really reduces my respect for his character. It shows a big head and appalling lack of class. Like 'I'm so fabulous that no one--even a talented younger player--could ever equal me' (more in his first sentence). That sucks. What he should have said was something along the lines of "these guys are very talented and will, in time, build their own legacy," which is different from his second sentence. It's his first sentence that's the worst. What he said may well be true, but it's in very poor taste to actually say it. What these guys don't seem to understand is that a little modesty makes them seem even greater whereas bragging reduces their stature in peoples' eyes.

I know, I know, Geroy was a great receiver, but it would be nice to see true modesty (or even false modesty!), as opposed to pure narcissism, accompany great talent for a change.

I concur and well said !