Lions 18 - Argos 9 Post Game Stats and Comments

[TheLionKing]

McCallum's kicking adventures did not suddenly appeared overnight. It was there last season as well

[TheLionKing]

Tried to get a screen cap from the TSN VOD archive of the KW offside call that nullified the Parker TD int return. This is what I capped as quickly as possible after the snap (note the OL have come back out of their stance). The yellow oval establishes the LOS and KW is the red arrow. This is just after the snap so it's hard to imagine that he's prematurely very deep into the one-yard neutral area, if at all — a very close call at best. Seems there might even also have been an Argo or two (yellow arrows) offside on the play — in fact, that was actually the way Cuthbert called it live just after Parker made it to the end zone.

If things don't work out in the CFL the official who threw the flag can get a job refereeing women's soccer

[WestCoastJoe]

Toronto's D is very hard hitting. Close to being dirty, I would say, if the definition of dirty is trying to hurt somebody. The tackle on Harris was far beyond what was necessary. Those crossing route hits on Gore were nasty. Kuale can be nasty. Any hard hitting D is going to have some calling dirty however.

Our O Line was outstanding in pass protection IMO. Not so much in run blocking, but that might also have to do with the Argos's aggressive D.

Our pressure on Ray was fierce and unrelenting. Westerman was terrific in his backup role to the starters, who were all awesome. Didn't see Peguese on the D Line, but he must have been in there sometime. 6 man rotation was available to keep the guys fresh.

LBs were super. Bighill. Reddick. Yurichuk. Didn't notice Love at all.

DBs tackled well, even Phillips. If the O is not picking on Muamba, that tells me something very good.

Ernest Jackson is possibly even better than I might have hoped.

Weird to see Geroy playing a very limited role. Even Bruce. But with all those weapons, et cetera.

A bit concerned about Harris. Thought we might have rested him a bit after the dirty take down. I would say a normal, non super human would be concussed on such a tackle. In view of Andrew's turf toe, I am wondering if we used him too much. More work for Tim Brown would have been in order? Andrew is tough, but he is not made of steel.

Travis kept his cool in a very intense game. Did Chris Jones out scheme JC? Dunno. Or did Travis not achieve the highest level? Or did the terrific Argo D just do what such D can do, neutralize great O? Somewhere in there ...

Did Rich Stubler out scheme Milanovich? Same situation ...

IMO Benny and Wally need to keep working with Chuck to get our STs up to speed. The extra starters helped. Do we need more out of Gesse and Arakgi?

Time to give O'Neill a game or two?

Pretty much a heavyweight non title fight. And we win.

[SammyGreene]

Weird to see Geroy playing a very limited role. Even Bruce. But with all those weapons, et cetera.

Bruce was a vertical threat last year. I recall those two wins in Regina where two deep touchdown passes (100 and 72 yards) were defying moments of the games. He also made a key early 50-plus yard catch in the Western Final against the Eskimos that got the Lions out of poor field position. Same goes for Geroy who other than the record breaking catch in the opener against the Bombers is rarely going vertical, at least with balls being thrown his way.

Right now Bruce and Simon look like identical receivers where when they are the primary receivers they are running the same 8-to-15 yard dig routes. Maybe this is about Father Time and neither getting the seperation from defenders for Travis to look their way or him not having enough time to do so. I'm hoping it's more about the Lions needing to vertically challenge defences more so teams like the Argos can't tee off on our WRs from too many predictable reads.

[DanoT]

Some of the best tackling by BC in quite some time. On several occasions an Argo caught a 6 or 7 yard pass and was tackled immediately, forcing a punt.

Tremendous pressure all game on RR. I recall one play when BC rushed 7 or 8 at RR and hit him just as the ball was released causing a blooper pass. An easy one to pick off I thought, except is there anyone left in the defensive backfield to make the pick? Phillips came close.

Boyd got something like 48 yards from 6 runs and 6 catches---outstanding defence.

Nice to see Westerman get the defensive game ball. BC will be very much ok when Westerman steps in to Mitchell's spot when Mitchell serves his suspension.

[Dan_Payne_fan!!]

a win is a win but dang there was some bad officiating haha

Adam Bighill with easily his best game of the season to date

Chappys gotta be more innovative at the goal line, like what he was doing with the Marco TD vs Edmonton a few weeks ago.

all the Defence played outstanding

cant wait for the game vs the Riders, those games are always fun and intense

[Blitz]

It was a big win for our Leos, on the road against a tough Argo team that had played very well at home. It was a defensive battle but our defense came up best, preventing the Argos from scoring a touchdown, even though they had very good field postion often and we also came up with the big turnovers that were key to our victory. A key insertion into our offensive receiving group also paid big dividends. Some post-game thoughts:

~The tone of the game was set early when Korey Banks, in a one on one in the open field on a Boyd run, knocked Boyd backward and on his ass. Our defense played aggressive and tough, made some oustanding tackles and big hits all game.

~too many fans attribute defensing the running game only based on the middle linebacker position. Stopping the run is a defensive team concept. Williams, Smith, Mitchell, and Taylor all played very well and Westerman had a break out game on the inside. We held the league's leading rusher in Boyd to 23 yards on 8 carries - impressive!!

~I've always liked James Yarichuk and said before the game I prefer him on the outide. Yarichuk played very well against Toronto and showed that he is the real deal and has starter ability. It was also great to see Aragki also play so well in his rotational role at outside linebacker and to watch him contibute in a way he has always wanted to.

~Adam Bighill once again showed his anticipation skills against the pass-an area that he is better at than Eliminian. Bighill was all over the field against Toronto.

~Rich Stubler is considerd one of the very best defensive coordinators to ever coach in the CFL for good reasons. He showed that ability again against Toronto, with some very well schemed blitzes combined with using his defensive personell to their strengths. He really mixed his coverages well against Ricky Ray and gave him a lot of false reads. We had a lot of pressure on Ricky Ray most of the game and delivered a lot of hits on him. Our defensive players executed his game plan almost to perfection.

~It was a tremendous shame to see a great interception and touchdown return by Byron Parker wiped out by a wrong call. Keron Williams was NOT offside. The touchdown looked like it would give us the momentum to start walking away with the score and instead the offside call gave the Argos new life.

~Offensively, we needed to do two things to overcome Chris Jones press man coverage style of defense. First, we needed to establish the run to create balance, have the Argo's defensive backs looking into our backfield, and to set up play action. We did not open holes for Harris and he was stymied except for a big scamper late in the fourth quarter. Secondly, Lulay needed to challenge deep early to loosen up Toronto's defense and he did not, prefering the dink and dunk conservative approach and it hurt our offence.

~Chris Jones anticipated that we would also use a lot of crossing patterns, using our speedy receivers to be able to get separation running horizontally across the field. Jones used combination coverages, which included the corner staying in the flat and coming across on the crossing patterns. Lulay did not read the coverage and almost got some of our receivers killed on crossing patterns with suicide passes. It reminded me of the days when we did that to Jason Clermont. Lulay needed to throw to our wide recievers deeper earlier in the game to back the corner off as well as hitting some seam and skinny post patters earlier and he was too tentative to hit those vertical patterns. You can't play conservative against press man coverage and Lulay did, which caused our recievers to be blanketed most of the game.

~I anticipated that Simon and Bruce would have a tougher time against press man coverage and they did. However, our speedsters in Gore, Foster, and Jackson needed to step up and they did. It was a great move by Benevedes and Chap to insert Earnest Jackson aginst Toronto, where his size and speed made him tough to cover in press man coverage and Jackson came through with 4 catches, including his deep catch that enabled us to score our big touchdown in the fourh quarter. However, before fans go ga ga over Jackson he needs to become a better route runner against zone defenses. No question though that he has the athletic ability to be a tremendous asset to our offence.

~Toronto had a player whose toe was over the line on our third down gamble attempt that was stopped at the one yard line. A tough call for Toronto, it meant nothing to the play, but where do you draw the line? More disappointing was our play calls and execution down there. We really need to have a tough runner dive it in there..the plays took too long and reminded me of too many awful situations when Wally was running our short yardge units. We'll ned to get back to work in this area after it appeared that we had addressed this shortcoming of too many previous seasons.

~I don't believe too much stock can be put into McCallum's punting average for the Toronto game. He was deliberately trying to have the ball hit the ground and bounce, before Owens could field it and he was trying to put 'junk' on his punts. However, McCallum has been inconsistent this year in his punting and has shanked a few so far this season. It would be nice to have O'Neil in a game for kickoffs, long field goal tries, and even some punting situations but with our problems with downfield coverage I can't see our Leos using two kickers in the near future.

~I've never been a fan of what Tim Brown brings to our Leos but it depends on what one if looking for. If our Leos are looking for a punt returner who does not fumble, who brings returns upfield for a decent average, and can step into the offence and run inside Brown provides that. However, if our Leos are looking for a game breaker type of returner, Brown does not have breakaway speed on kick returns, where he struggles, and he is not a put fear in an opposition defenses hearts on punt returns. He's had a couple of big games over the past two seasons when he has been given space from good blocking but he is not someone who can create that space easily by himself. On offence he is not dangerous in the passing game or to the outside. I would prefer a different style of return guy and rotational tailback for our offence. I also believe we should be using Iannuzzi in a rotation on punt returns and should certainly be using Iannuzzi instead of either Brown or Foord on kick returns, where neither are kick returner with the blazing speed needed for that portion of our return game.

All in all, though, we went back East and showed poise in a tight game against a tough openent, trading blows all game and came up big when we needed to. We won the turnover game and we played championship style defense. The bye week comes at a very good time, after a bruising battle, and its an opportunity to nurse some bruises and work on the areas that we need to.

[South Pender]

Although no one has really mentioned this, I thought that our O-line looked poor at times, particularly in the series from the Toronto 1-yd. line. Harris was just stuffed 2 or 3 times. I would think that it should be considered completely unacceptable for an offense to be unable to score in 3 downs from the one. I couldn't see, on most plays, just who was out there at the guard positions, but I assume it was JHR and Matt Norman on most plays. Was this the case on those goal line plays? I believe that Dean Valli was dressed. Did he play much if at all? To me, a not-always-reliable O-line has been a negative factor for the Leos, and that this was apparent in yesterday's game. I guess we can hope that, with the bye-week break, JHR will have improved health-wise and that Dean Valli will be closer to 100%, and that these guys can step in and play against Saskatchewan in two weeks.

[MexicoLionFan]

Great post Blitz...thanks for your excellent comments...I think we saw things pretty much the same way...I just wanted to make a couple of points...

One, I don't mind Tim Brown returning punts, because, as you said, he doesn't fumble and generally goes north...but he is hurting us on KO returns and missed FGs...he can't turn every return into a 5 yard gain off tackle...and thus you have a problem...how do you keep a roster spot, in the CFL, for a guy that averages 1 rushing carry a game, and is hurting his team on KO returns and missed FGs???

Like Jackson, I think the Lions should give Stewart a shot at the return position and see what he can do...

As for Jackson, while I agree that he still has many things to learn, another 2 weeks in our system is going to help him immensely...I am very excited to see him in our next game vs. Sask!

And Two, we both agreed what Lulay needed to do coming into the game vs. Jones' D...he didn't...and while I admire his austerity program against turnovers, he is also the reigning MOP in the entire league...he is a veteran QB now, and needs to have the courage and skill to make plays downfield...when he finally launched that pass to Jackson (which turned into a huge gain) I almost fell off my chair, that was the first long pass he made all game, in a game where he needed to have made 10-15 of them...Lulay needs to take another step forward in his game, if he is truly going to be the MOP in this league.

Again, great post...

[Spud387]

I only caught the play on radio and they were stumped. Can someone clarify why the punt that hit Owens and was recovered by the Lions was not challenged?

[WestCoastJoe]

On the one yard line, the D goes all in to stop the dive, or any run. They penetrate. To me it is an empty conceit to think your guys can over power their guys at the goal line. And yet, there we were, back in the dark old days, pounding our head against the wall, three straight times. We lost that battle, except for the very, very marginal makeup call penalty.

Slow developing running plays against an all out penetrating defence? A head shaker. Stubbornness like we haven't seen in about a year.

Why not spread the field? Use all the weapons. Make them defend everything.

When they stopped us on the third attempt, how would that have changed the game? We pass the ball down to the one. Fail to get it in. It may well have turned the game around.

We have shown some creativity down there. Some unpredictability. It was scary to see us go back to head in the sand thinking.

[DanoT]

I only caught the play on radio and they were stumped. Can someone clarify why the punt that hit Owens and was recovered by the Lions was not challenged?

There were two Lions standing about 4 yards from Owens where he may have touched the ball (replay shows he didn't touch the ball) so if he had touched the ball, then 5 yard no yards penalty to BC, still no TD and Argos get the ball on about 8 or 13 yard line. (I'm not exactly sure what yard line Owens was standing on.)

[South Pender]

On the one yard line, the D goes all in to stop the dive, or any run. They penetrate. To me it is an empty conceit to think your guys can over power their guys at the goal line. And yet, there we were, back in the dark old days, pounding our head against the wall, three straight times. We lost that battle, except for the very, very marginal makeup call penalty.

Slow developing running plays against an all out penetrating defence? A head shaker. Stubbornness like we haven't seen in about a year.

Why not spread the field? Use all the weapons. Make them defend everything.

When they stopped us on the third attempt, how would that have changed the game? We pass the ball down to the one. Fail to get it in. It may well have turned the game around.

We have shown some creativity down there. Some unpredictability. It was scary to see us go back to head in the sand thinking.

I don't know. You have 5 offensive linemen who are heavier than the D linemen. You can add a fullback or tight-end (or H-back) type for additional blocking, and you've already got the one-year gap between the lines. In my opinion, a one-yard gain should be about automatic--certainly in three tries. I certainly agree about slow-developing running plays, but a couple of Q-back sneaks really should get it done, shouldn't it?

[TheLionKing]

Slow developing running plays against an all out penetrating defence? A head shaker. Stubbornness like we haven't seen in about a year.

Why not spread the field? Use all the weapons. Make them defend everything.

When they stopped us on the third attempt, how would that have changed the game? We pass the ball down to the one. Fail to get it in. It may well have turned the game around.

We have shown some creativity down there. Some unpredictability. It was scary to see us go back to head in the sand thinking.

Chapball is not dead

[WestCoastJoe]

On the one yard line, the D goes all in to stop the dive, or any run. They penetrate. To me it is an empty conceit to think your guys can over power their guys at the goal line. And yet, there we were, back in the dark old days, pounding our head against the wall, three straight times. We lost that battle, except for the very, very marginal makeup call penalty.

Slow developing running plays against an all out penetrating defence? A head shaker. Stubbornness like we haven't seen in about a year.

Why not spread the field? Use all the weapons. Make them defend everything.

When they stopped us on the third attempt, how would that have changed the game? We pass the ball down to the one. Fail to get it in. It may well have turned the game around.

We have shown some creativity down there. Some unpredictability. It was scary to see us go back to head in the sand thinking.

I don't know. You have 5 offensive linemen who are heavier than the D linemen. You can add a fullback or tight-end (or H-back) type for additional blocking, and you've already got the one-year gap between the lines. In my opinion, a one-yard gain should be about automatic--certainly in three tries. I certainly agree about slow-developing running plays, but a couple of Q-back sneaks really should get it done, shouldn't it?

We showed for years that a one yard QB plunge was no sure thing.

Who has the advantage, the D Lineman who can bull rush, go low, hit the gap, choose sides, do what he wants, or the O Lineman who has to find his man, react to him, and then get him squarely?

I know a number of people say we should win the short yardage battle in the line. I don't buy it. On the other hand, IMO your chances of success improve greatly if the D does not know what you are going to do, or where you are going to go.

If deception and uncertainty give the O an advantage, why throw them out in short yardage?

Make the D honor the dive and sneak. But also make them honor the quick pass, the rollout, the reverse.

I see no reason to assume the O Line is stronger than the D Line. Usually bigger, Yes. But O Linemen carry a lot of excess weight. Is an O Lineman stronger than Khalif Mitchell or Eric Taylor? Is an O Lineman necessarily able to prevent penetration from (or remove from the play) even a lighter weight guy like Ricky Foley? I don't think so. Does a guy like Ricky Foley have an advantage in quickness, slipperiness, athleticism and leverage? Yes. D guys have immense pride too. And if the D stops the O it is huge motivational victory.

Blitz and BCFAN and myself have joked about who has the minority opinion.

I don't know which it is for me on this one. But I know what I think about the situation. I would just cite our huge lack of success trying to pound rocks in short yardage over the years when no deception is presented to the D. As I said earlier, it seems to me like an empty conceit to think your O guys can over power their D guys. Even knowing the snap count, and even with the yard. And I personally don't automatically say the O Line failed. Are we guaranteed our O can push the D back? No. Are we guaranteed a gap? No. Are we guaranteed to find a gap? No. I would say the game plan for short yardage failed, the play call failed.

Just IMO, for discussion ...