Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

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KnowItAll
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Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

I agree that teachers should be valued and paid better. I agree with their concerns about whats best for students. I agree that others such as nurses should be the same. However, what these stupid unions dont get that they all want a bigger piece of a pie that Campbell and his cronies finished off, leaving poor Christy holding an empty bag and trying to do damage control.

What part of, there is no more money, dont these people get. Instead of being part of the problem, they should try being part of the solution. Instead of just demanding more, try presenting a case to the govt as to how they can be given more.
Where do they expect the money to come from? Who do they expect to take it from? Or do they just expect all BC taxpayers to go more into debt so that a few can have more?

Hands up who wants to go deeper into debt for these unions.
Hands up who wants to pay more taxes?
Hands up who wants to see more cuts to yet more services.
Hands up who wants to see the govt sell everything they can, like maybe BC place, so they can meet union demands.

if your hand is still down, how do you expect the present govt to give these unions any more?

FTR, I am not a liberal supporter. I am not a Christy supporter. I do admit to being anti NDP though.


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TheLionKing
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

It's going to be a hot summer with the BCGEU, nurses union up for negotiation


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Toppy Vann
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

I have NO issues with unions nor these guys but somehow part of me feels that the timing is intended to bring the NDP to power.

I agree - no one begrudges these folks good wages and at times when gov't had money they were tight fisted.

The reality today is that there has been a structural shift in the world from unions who had power and ability to bring employers to their knees and who were accused of a sense of entitlement to where the unions have very little power for better wages and where entitlement in the executive suites in the west has gone amok.

There is no justification from the massive bonuses paid executives in these companies. IIRC the head of GM (?) this week got US$58 million in stock options for their turnaround. Not justified.

But today the gov'ts and least of all taxpayers can least afford the kind of pay increases they are no doubt seeking.


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Blue In BC
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

I vote for reducing what governments / polictians seem to put in their own pockets. There never seems to be a shorfall when they increase their salaries or pension plans.

Doesn't seem to matter which government is in power in that regard.


TheLionKing
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

Second that. MLA and MP are second to none. Plus they get long recesses


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TheFanWithTheFlag
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

Blue In BC wrote:I vote for reducing what governments / polictians seem to put in their own pockets. There never seems to be a shorfall when they increase their salaries or pension plans.

Doesn't seem to matter which government is in power in that regard.
AMEN


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Sir Purrcival
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

It's very true that I would like to see politicians practise what they preach. If the cupboard is bare, it is bare for all including politicians. MLA's start at $101000.00. Seems quite adequate for the times. Both the Libs and NDP were quite complicit in the last raise so I have no faith in either.

As for the teachers. Like most I would like to think that they deserve a reasonable wage but I think they have one. They like to say they are 9th in Canada but that is including the far North. Take out the Territories which are a special region, and they are something like 4th. With benefits, the average salary is about 80000.00 per year. They have a good pension plan and the like. They talk about improving working conditions but I fail to see how a pay raise or increased bereavement time will do anything to address that. It isn't about wages they say but they won't drop those demands so regardless of their words, the actions speak differently.

I kind of wish they would all just grow the F&** up. Screw the BCTF, Screw the Gov. They are all a pack of greedy, covetous tools.

Have a nice day :wink:


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Blue In BC
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

Don't really know but never felt they were an under paid group. Perhaps they are but it seems the real issue is class size related issues and working conditions.

EDIT: Info from this mornings Province.

Last contract was 16% over 5 years and a $3,700 signing bonus
Salaries range from $46K to $81K for 10 month employment.

Current negotiations is for 15% over 3 years.

Make your own judgements about whether this is fair or not. No need to post your feelings unless you want. This is just information and not intended to create a pro or con discussion.


TheLionKing
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

I see the nurses union are running ads to garner public support for their upcoming negotiations with the government. It's all about patient care...


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pennw
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

I for one don't think teachers are under paid at all. How many of you out there make $75,000 a year and called your self under paid ? How do they expect govt. to pay for that ? Raise taxes on all of us who make way less than they do of course . like always . That is how the rich get richer while the poor get poorer .
That 75000 is for only 9 months , not a years work , and the base hours for a day is 6 not 8 like most of us . Yes they do extra curricular stuff but that is on top of a the 6 hour base .
I don't feel the teachers have a case at all , just plain and simple greed and i would like to see the Government stand firm on this one . I think this actually is doing the liberals a favour , as many people don't actually buy into the rhetoric the union is putting out . Seems the NDP is keeping strangely silent on this one .


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pennw
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

TheLionKing wrote:I see the nurses union are running ads to garner public support for their upcoming negotiations with the government. It's all about patient care...
It's no more about patient care than the teacher's dispute is about students . These disputes are all about more money in their pockets at our (and student's ) expense.


TheLionKing
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

pennw wrote:
TheLionKing wrote:I see the nurses union are running ads to garner public support for their upcoming negotiations with the government. It's all about patient care...
It's no more about patient care than the teacher's dispute is about students . These disputes are all about more money in their pockets at our (and student's ) expense.
Absolutely


Blue In BC
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

It's a reality that most working people are over worked, under paid or under appreciated. I've been through many many, downsizings or layoffs. Companies have had to cut corners and that usually means those remaining have to work harder, with less resources and cut backs on raises and benefits.

What the teachers are saying is nothing new that most other working people don't experience. This includes people that have had long time employment and educational back grounds.

It's a tough global economy and the days of 5% - 12% annual increases are long gone.


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Toppy Vann
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

Blue In BC wrote:It's a reality that most working people are over worked, under paid or under appreciated. I've been through many many, downsizings or layoffs. Companies have had to cut corners and that usually means those remaining have to work harder, with less resources and cut backs on raises and benefits.

What the teachers are saying is nothing new that most other working people don't experience. This includes people that have had long time employment and educational back grounds.

It's a tough global economy and the days of 5% - 12% annual increases are long gone.

This is absolutely spot on!

What I have seen as a shift in thinking though from the days of union leaders and their sense of entitlement is that sense of entitlement has shifted to the board rooms and C-suites in industries where the bonuses these guys are taking are beyond comprehension. GM turnaround gets their guy $158 million in stock! Gimme a break they got bailed out by the Obama administration. Yes, they paid it back and yes they are doing fine. But these excessive payouts and bonuses disgust me. Especially the bankers (not Canada) and their bonuses which in the UK govt has been trying to curb.

The US and the Wall Street bail out is shocking when you see the film Inside Job. That is a must see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_%28film%29

Even former Gov. and prosecutor Eliott Spitzer goes on camera to say he is shocked that no criminal charges took place.

I don't begrudge the teachers good paying jobs but the timing now sucks. I know there is pent up anger over the treatment from Gordon Campbell but now there is a real challenge. Tax bills and service costs are hugely rising as is gas.

What I find is bad about gov'ts today at all levels is that they are not seeing that the average member of the public needs to do better and they have lost that focus. Education is getting too costly for post secondary grads as their families and jobs are not there to pay for it without loans it seems. I feel very bad for those today in that situation while those of my age got cheap education (I got two degrees) and jobs were plentiful. And I am not complaining about me. I am fine. It's the younger families I worry about.

The same cries are coming from the thinking Americans now as they have an even worse structural econ. problem than we do. Even GOP George Shultz is now saying the US must invest in R&D and education to grow. The funny thing is that his guy Ronald Reagan did more to influence the mindset that gov't should get out of R&D and force more costs on to users (much of which still covers the thinking even in Canada). We need to get more post sec. education and more R&D in Canada and gov't has to play a role.

The hardest gov't level for funding is the provinces as so much is going to the Feds and it is their largesse or not that determines how well the provinces do. Then there is the pandering to the provinces espec. Quebec where all the votes and seats are vs BC which has less population and less influence.


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Sir Purrcival
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Re: Damn unions, I feel sorry for Christy

Actually what we really need to do is raise the profile of the trades. For years, post secondary education of the University Variety was often seen as the elite post secondary education option. To some extent, some of the highest paying jobs still do come as a result of a University Degree but now more than not, that means University Degrees and 8 -10 years of post secondary education. By contract, the trades are doing very well overall and the education commitment is much less. By the time a young person is 25, he may well have been engaged in steady, gainful employment for 3 years and making very good money whereas your University bound 25 year old may only just be getting through their second degree (if they are lucky)and still have more to go before the big money jobs begin to appear. And even at that, the debt load may be so high as to further reduce the meaningful amount of employed time that one has to achieve the things they want in life (home, family) and so on. There was a time that University was a ticket to a great job. No longer in many cases. In some ways, they may prepare you less for post education life because in many disciplines, they don't really give you marketable skills.


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