Jarious To Start Against Montreal

[hwgill]

Dumping JJ now would be a dumb move. He isn't the problem, and two of those turnovers in the last game happened due to a very good defender making a good read...they were not JJ's fault, and neither was the one fumble that wasn't recovered, he was holding the ball well. Sometimes things just happen and they aren't due to anyone's faults.

The D is our major problem right now. Get the D to work they way they should, and the O will play better with more time on the field.

Talking about JJ right now is a waste of time.

[The_Pauser]

Dumping JJ now would be a dumb move. He isn't the problem, and two of those turnovers in the last game happened due to a very good defender making a good read...they were not JJ's fault, and neither was the one fumble that wasn't recovered, he was holding the ball well. Sometimes things just happen and they aren't due to anyone's faults.

The D is our major problem right now. Get the D to work they way they should, and the O will play better with more time on the field.

Talking about JJ right now is a waste of time.

Well considering this is a thread about JJ I'd be very shocked if a discussion about the defense broke out.

And again, what exactly has JJ done that makes you love him so much? I mean, sure he looked great against Edmonton, I'll give him that. He looked poor against Toronto before getting pulled, but then lit it up in the 4th quarter leading us to a win against the worst team in the CFL. It was an up and down game. The other games he's seen action in this season he's been downright awful. And I don't mean bad, I mean, one of the worst QB's in the league. He's had a game where his QB rating was ZERO. That doesn't happen very often. So do tell me, what do you see in a 32 year old QB who turns the ball over more consistantly than he has good starts?

[David]

I'm sorry, but the absolute blind love for Jarious around here by some people is mind boggling and defies all logic.

Blind love? Hardly. Almost everyone here - to a man - recognizes his strengths AND weaknesses, and that he's not even our team's starting quarterback. But as fans of the BC Lions, we come to the defense of a guy that gets slagged by your relentless, over-the-top drivel almost every day of the week. It's as if you think some of us may have forgotten your tedious diatribes expressing your disdain for Jarious Jackson from the previous day, so we have to constantly be reminded of it. Over and over.

Of course, I could present some stats that show he's not quite the dud you make him out to be. But you'd only find ways to spin it that "he was only successful against a lousy Toronto team" (even though statistically they have one of the best defences in the league) or Edmonton wasn't prepared for him, or he fumbles too much, or he's too inconsistent, or he's 32, or....

So why bother?

And if you think bringing Ben Sankey in again at this stage can save our season or that he's even an upgrade over what we have now, then you know even less about this game than even I first suspected.

DH

[Lionut]

I have had plenty of criticisms of JJ, but at this stage of the season, heck, probably for the balance of the season, he is our guy. Bringing in someone cold halfway through the year, with camp a distant memory, is tantamount to waving the white flag on the 2009 season. So too would be throwing Lulay to the wolves as a full time starter. I can see giving him a quarter or two here and there strategically, but as the full time starter? The Lions have an obligation to the fans to try to win NOW, and Jackson is our best option for doing that at the moment.

I am amazed that Pierce has even been cleared to return to light duty. By his own admission, he still has some symptoms, and if an athlete is admitting to SOME symptoms, you can guarantee they are having a bunch of them. What is it, five concussions in the last year for the guy? Yikes. His long term health is the issue here, not whether or not he can suit up next week. If I am in Wally's shoes, I am very reluctant to put this guy back on the field until a qualified specialist explicitly gives the green light.

[hwgill]

I'm sorry, but the absolute blind love for Jarious around here by some people is mind boggling and defies all logic.

Blind love? Hardly. Almost everyone here - to a man - recognizes his strengths AND weaknesses, and that he's not even our team's starting quarterback. But as fans of the BC Lions, we come to the defense of a guy that gets slagged by your relentless, over-the-top drivel almost every day of the week. It's as if you think some of us may have forgotten your tedious diatribes expressing your disdain for Jarious Jackson from the previous day, so we have to constantly be reminded of it. Over and over.

Of course, I could present some stats that show he's not quite the dud you make him out to be. But you'd only find ways to spin it that "he was only successful against a lousy Toronto team" (even though statistically they have one of the best defences in the league) or Edmonton wasn't prepared for him, or he fumbles too much, or he's too inconsistent, or he's 32, or....

So why bother?

And if you think bringing Ben Sankey in again at this stage can save our season or that he's even an upgrade over what we have now, then you know even less about this game than even I first suspected.

DH

Agreed. JJ may have his problems, but with the way the Leos played last week, he was the least of our worries, and replacing him now would be a big mistake.

[pennw]

Well considering this is a thread about JJ I'd be very shocked if a discussion about the defense broke out.

Don't you do just that if the topic of discussion is DEFENSE or any other aspect of the team ,break it out in a slagging of JJ and the QB position ??

[Honour Dewalt]

I am a little sick of the Good Jarious/Bad Jarious comments. It's blowing that way out of proportion. Do we say the same for Pierce? or do we just give him a free get outta jail card when he is playing. Its not like Pierce is so great when he is in, yet it seems so easy to declare him the starter when he is healthy. He hardly ever goes downfield, some of our best receivers don't get the ball from him, and he also has bad games. I'd say Jarious's upside is way better than Pierce's, and Jarious when he is bad, is no worse than Pierce. Look at his win/loss record. How is that so easy to overlook? Yet he still has to answer these questions and look over his shoulder all the time.

[Blitz]

I am a little sick of the Good Jarious/Bad Jarious comments. It's blowing that way out of proportion. Do we say the same for Pierce? or do we just give him a free get outta jail card when he is playing. Its not like Pierce is so great when he is in, yet it seems so easy to declare him the starter when he is healthy. He hardly ever goes downfield, some of our best receivers don't get the ball from him, and he also has bad games. I'd say Jarious's upside is way better than Pierce's, and Jarious when he is bad, is no worse than Pierce. Look at his win/loss record. How is that so easy to overlook? Yet he still has to answer these questions and look over his shoulder all the time.

I agree that Jarious often doesn't get the same fair shake as Buck does....

Do you realize that we are now on pace to set a new record for throwing the most interceptions of a Leos team in over 40 years...that's not just a quarterback problem...it's an offensive structure problem, an offensive line problem, and a receiver problem...but it's a surprising and dismal stat for the first half of this season.

[pennw]

I am a little sick of the Good Jarious/Bad Jarious comments. It's blowing that way out of proportion. Do we say the same for Pierce? or do we just give him a free get outta jail card when he is playing. Its not like Pierce is so great when he is in, yet it seems so easy to declare him the starter when he is healthy. He hardly ever goes downfield, some of our best receivers don't get the ball from him, and he also has bad games. I'd say Jarious's upside is way better than Pierce's, and Jarious when he is bad, is no worse than Pierce. Look at his win/loss record. How is that so easy to overlook? Yet he still has to answer these questions and look over his shoulder all the time.

In fairness to the posters here , have a look at who is the one who continually perpetuates this . Most just get tired of , it seems , of one poster in particular that's making a career of slagging our QB's, JJ in particular and come to JJ's defense because of it . It's not lots of posters doing it (slagging JJ).

[The_Pauser]

Okay, because some of you clearly don't see something so obvious let's bring out the stats to illustrate my point. Even Blitz has stated that the QB position is a concern (although he does admit that there are other problems with the team which may be of bigger concern at the moment, which I tend to agree with; however, like I said, I'm specifically honing in on one particular problem area, especially it being an area which most people seem to pass off as fine).

Note: In my analysis, I'm ignoring QB's who have fewer than 20 pass attempts, because the statistical data derrived from such players would be too extreme and not an accurate indicator.

Jarious Jackson has the highest touchdown percentage-to pass attempt ratio in the league. I give him that. But he also has the highest interception-to pass attempt ration in the league. In fact, he's thrown one more interception (9) than touchdown pass (8) all season. And even more alarming is how BC quarterbacks have thrown for 22 interceptions combined. The rest of the league combined only has 58, so BC quarterbacks have combined for 27.5% of all league interceptions. The next worst in the league would be Saskatchewan at 15%.

Now, in terms of QB rating, Jackson is one of the lowest in the league (Pierce is actually worse). Only Kerry Joseph (68.1), Buck Pierce (67.8), Stefan Lefors (60.8), and Michael Bishop (59.6) have been worse. Meanwhile, Ricky Ray, Anthony Calvillo, Henry Burris, Darian Durant, Quentin Porter, Kevin Glenn, Cody Pickett and Steven Jyles have better QB ratings. In terms of touchdown to interception ratio, only Buck Pierce (0.62) Kerry Joseph (0.7) and Michael Bishop (0.5) have been worse than Jackson (0.89). Now, considering that teams which generally lose the turnover +/- battle end up losing games, is it really a surprise that BC has struggled this year? I agree that the team has major problemse elsewhere in the lineup as well, but perhaps some of those problems wouldn't be completely exposed if we had a QB in there that DIDN'T turn the ball over constantly?

Now, let's look at last years stats. Of QB's who threw a minimum 250 passes, only Michael Bishop (4.7) and Kevin Glenn (4.4) had a higher pass attempt-to interception ratio than Jarious (3.5). Both Bishop and Glenn were cut by their respective teams, yet Jackson re-upped in BC. Although I should mention that his TD percentage was only bested by Burris and Calvillo. So yes, Jackson is more of a high-risk/high-reward type QB; HOWEVER, when you factor in his completion percentage, amongst QB's who attempted a minimum of 250 passes (you could go down to 150 and the result would be the same), Jarious ranked dead last in completion percentage with a poor 54.9%. So this suggests that yes he's high risk, but he's also ineffective when he's not throwing the deep bomb for touchdowns. He can't sustain drives, leading to several 2 and outs which forces the defense to have to come on the field and play bit or else the team is going down a path of losing. Last year Jarious's QB rating was 84.3%, which was only better than Kerry Joseph (82%) and Michael Bishop (81.9%) in that category. In terms of touchdown to interception ratio, only Kevi Glenn (1), Kerry Joseph (1.21) and Michael Bishop (.79) were worse than Jackson's 1.7.

Looking back to 2007 when Jackson was the starter for the majority of the season. Again he had one of the highest touchdown to pass attempt ratios in the league, trailing Henry Burris and Michael Bishop, but yet again he had the highest interception to pass attempt ratio out of any starter in the league who had a minimum of 250 pass attempts. In terms of completion percentage that year, only Michael Bishop (52.1%) was lower than Jackson (54.9%). Also, only Jason Maas (1.14) had a lower touchdown to interception ratio than Jackson (1.8). And again, looking at QB rating, only Jason Maas (82.1%) and Michael Bishop (87.5%) were lower than Jackson (88.9%).

The numbers don't lie. I rest my case.

[Rammer]

Team game, and right now JJ is our guy, you have to support him until the next one comes along. Lulay may be that guy down the road, but has looked like a raw rookie with our O in real game time. CP would be a project, and you may as well add any other NFL cut QB to that list as well, next year time. So the bottomline is you may as well stop the finger pointing, as it isn't going to get changed anytime soon.

[Tighthead]

Completion percentage is a crap stat. YPA is much more indicative of success. Three yard dumps on second and ten are of next to no value, but pump up a completion percentage.

[The_Pauser]

Completion percentage is a crap stat. YPA is much more indicative of success. Three yard dumps on second and ten are of next to no value, but pump up a completion percentage.

Sure, but the fact that Jackson doesn't complete as many passes as others with comparable YPA stats means he simply isn't as effective. And while AC may have a lower YPA than Jackson, are you suggesting that Jackson is more valuable than AC?

[The_Pauser]

I also want to point out, to those who think QBing hasn't been a problem, that Buck Pierce (8) and Jarious Jackson (5) have combined for 13 fumbles this season. The rest of the league combined (QB's) have 23. So Lions QB's have attributed to a third of the entire amount of fumbles by QB's this season. Combine the 13 fumbles with the 22 interceptions thrown, and that's 35 turnovers in 8 games committed by BC quarterbacks for an average of just over 4 turnovers per game. And of the total amount of turnovers committed by QB's in the CFL (119), BC quarterbacks take up 29.4% of that total.

I've been watching the CFL long enough to know that this is not normal amongst teams that have playoff aspirations, so I fail to see how bringing someone new in could be any worse. Either we can miss the playoffs with the QB's we have, or we can make a move and try to bring in someone new who could hopefully help us.

[Tighthead]

Completion percentage is a crap stat. YPA is much more indicative of success. Three yard dumps on second and ten are of next to no value, but pump up a completion percentage.

Sure, but the fact that Jackson doesn't complete as many passes as others with comparable YPA stats means he simply isn't as effective. And while AC may have a lower YPA than Jackson, are you suggesting that Jackson is more valuable than AC?

I am not stupid enough to suggest that one stat is the be all and end all.

I'm not sure about your first point. To me, it indicates less of a ball control offence and more of a vertical offence. We saw the ball control offence flame out in the WF last year when the defence kept the ball in front of them and we killed the clock on ourselves.